Euron Greyjoy and Pyat Pree

[aFeastForDragons]

For anyone who thinks Pyat Pree in particular is going to have some important story role, I believe the show had him killed.

George has stated numerous times that the show has killed of characters that will play a role later on in the book. He calls it the butterfly effect.

[aFeastForDragons]

The horn will do something big and in typical George fashion it will do the opposite of what Victarion wants it to do. My hope is it summons Krakens to pull down the Volantis fleet.

[JLE]

One thing I'm certain of, Victarion does not intend to remain in Meereen long. He's already having to fight his way in through the Yunkish fleet: he will not want to be caught ashore by the Volantenes, so his priority is "get in, get something, get out, get back to sea before Volantis arrives". Then either evade the Volantene fleet, or fight his way out through it, on the sea where he knows how to fight (which will be easy since the Volantene fleet will most likely largely be troop transports for land soldiers, and not so well equipped for naval battles since they are not expecting to face a hostile fleet.)

The only way he can *leave with something worthwhile* - since Dany is not there, and cannot possibly get back to Meereen in time to meet him before Victarion's fairly strict timetable forces him to put to sea to confront or evade the Volantene fleet, and he does not have a great deal of reason to expect her back at all, especially since some have reported her dead - is to use the horn to successfully control at least one of the two remaining dragons.

Without a dragon, he's not going home, because there would be nothing for him to go home WITH. But, using the horn and finding it doesn't work, he wouldn't get a dragon - there would be nothing to stop Daenerys destroying him with Drogon if she came back, so he would have to flee with nothing. His whole plot only works if he CAN control at least one dragon - and then, with one or two, will be gone before Dany knows a thing.

And of course, with at least one dragon at his command, he'll think he can challenge Euron. So, against Victarion who would be king, what kind of ace does Euron have up his sleeve to trump him? He knows Victarion hates him, and will be looking for some means to challenge him - and, even knowing this, has gone and sent him to *bring back dragons* - with the dragon queen if possible, but obviously, without her if necessary. In other words, Euron may be mad, but he is intelligent, and he knows that he has sent away a brother and must expect an enemy to return, and expect dragons to come with that enemy - and therefore he has plans for that situation which will result in his gaining control of at least one dragon, and either killing Victarion or forcing his submission.

The warlocks, of course, may be part of this.

So might Euron's previous instances of having the horn blown (not long after having had Balon murdered, which could represent "claiming the horn in blood" as Moqorro tells Victarion he must do) (and Balon's body tossed into the sea) (Euron having apparently tossed a dragon egg into the sea at some point, as well) (I wonder if the dragon egg was thrown into the sea at the same place that Balon fell?) (And if so, was the egg thrown in where Balon died, or was Balon's death arranged to be at the spot where the egg was thrown?) (And if so, will it hatch, or has it already done so, and if so, into what?)

However, either way the inevitable result of this is that Dany is going to get back to Meereen too late, to find the place in chaos, herself a widow for a second time, at least one dragon gone, and no serviceable fleet to transport any army in, either Dothraki or Unsullied, and the seas and docks littered with wrecks and unseaworthy hulks that cannot possibly bring soldiers to Westeros. The only way she's getting to Westeros in time to take part in events is alone, on dragon-back, and she can only ride one dragon (which must be Drogon). If Victarion succeeds in taking both dragons, she will have to pursue both: if one is injured and temporarily unable to fly (hinted in some of the preview Tyrion chapters), it will have to be left behind.

[Jon Blackfyre]

For anyone who thinks Pyat Pree in particular is going to have some important story role, I believe the show had him killed.

They killed Rhakaro and Mago too... So yeah

[DoctorSwerve]

GRRM only said that we would learn the fate of PP in TWOW. He never confirmed whether or not he was still alive.

[Lord Varys]

I'm pretty sure Pyat Pree is still alive, since his death would mean that GRRM would have to introduce (a) new warlock(s), which would further complicate things. And I'm pretty sure Dany will have to face Pyat Pree again before the end, as she has met Xaro again, and is about to face Khal Jhaqo and Mago again.

By the way: How do you consider the chances that the TWoW Prologue will written from Paxter Redwyne's POV, depicting the battle against Euron, and its aftermath (i.e. the crushing defeat of the Redwyne fleet, and Paxter's subsequent death at Euron's hands, with the revelation that Pyat Pree is still alive)? That would be a powerful way to underline what kind of threat Euron actually is, as well as hammer home the fact that magic is on the rise again (if we assume, as I do, that magic will be crucial in the destruction of the Redwyne fleet).

[This could also serve to give us a limited inside perspective on the machinations of House Tyrell - Paxter is married to Mace's sister, and he should know how they work.]

I did not really elaborate on Dragonbinder 'backfiring':

1. We don't know yet what the thing is really supposed to do, but we do know that you can only ride one dragon at the same time. Which means that Vic/Euron would have a problem when he bound more than one dragon to his will, since he can ride only one of them. At least that's what has been established in ADwD and TPatQ.

2. We don't know who has tampered with Dragonbinder. This Undying of Qarth could have shaped the thing into a weapon rather than an instrument to enslave dragons after they came into its possession. Pyat Pree and his colleagues could have tampered with it before (to ensure that it would do what they want) and after they were captured by the Silence (to ensure that it would do what Euron wants, after he gave it to Victarion). Finally, Moqorro could have tampered with it to ensure that it does what he wants, not what Euron or Victarion want.

3. Moqorro was the one who painted Euron as the biggest threat to Daenerys, thus I'm pretty sure the whole point of his daring plan to join Victarion is to thwart Euron's plans for Daenerys and her dragons. My guess is that Vic ends up as dragonrider joining team Dany, i.e. that he stays in Slaver's Bay and waits for Dany's return - and in his last chapter he seemed to be determined to that, anyway. The other option is that Moqorro insidiously used the Ironborn to neutralize the Yunkai'i, only to get rid of them and their fleet afterwards by manipulating the horn in a way that it turns the dragons against the guy who hoped to enslave them...

4. The wild card in all that is of course the Dusky Woman. She is Euron's knife at Vic's throat, and it's still unknown whether she is a 'normal assassin' (unlikely) a Faceless Man (the one who killed Balon), or one of the warlocks he has captured. But it's pretty sure that Euron must have send somebody with an enormous amount of power with Victarion to ensure that he does not betray him. All his plans hinge on Dany and her dragons, and if Vic really could secure them for himself, he would really use everything.

My earlier speculation that Balon might have been murdered by Qartheen sorcery was triggered by the fact that it seems all but impossible that Euron had time to go to Braavos to hire a Faceless Man to take out Balon after he had captured the warlocks and learned about Dany and her dragons. It's pretty clear that Euron set the Faceless Man ashore to do the deed (i.e. that he got to Pyke on board the Silence).

My only idea is that the warlocks helped Euron to identify a Faceless Man who hid already on his ship (unlikely) or was on a ship the Silence encountered while on the way to Westeros. Perhaps a Faceless Man charged with the assassination of Daenerys Targaryen. If there is a faction who should be able to learn about Dany very soon it should be the Faceless Men. Varys/Illyrio learn about her arrival in Qarth shortly after she arrives there.

As to my idea that Euron may be 'changed': Isn't that also hinted at in those visions of Euron. The evil Über-Kraken Moqorro describes to Tyrion, as well as the dead crow on the shoulder of the Faceless Man in the vision of the Ghost of High Heart, and possibly also some stuff Maester Aemon sees in his dreams shortly before his death...?

[Stoned Dragon]

I agree that Vic is thinking he needs to get out of dodge because of the Volantine fleet --

But Tyrion and Ser Jorah (and the readers) know that the slaves rowing those ships are mostly worshipers of the Red God and believe Daenerys is Azor Ahai. There's also her whole manumission campaign, which is ruffling feathers in Volantis to begin with. Vic is going to crush the Yunkai, but he's going to get pinned in by the Volantis fleet coming into the bay. He's then going to have his three thralls blow one-time a piece, and the dragons are going to come.

Valyrian magic is rooted in fire and blood, and you need one to get the other. The dragonhorn needs to be claimed with a sacrifice (blood for fire), and Vic is trying to skirt the rules by having three different men sound the horn in the hopes they won't die -- meaning I doubt when he blows the horn it isn't going to work like it's supposed to -- no matter who claims it. They'll likely hear the noise and join the frey, but I doubt they'll be under anyone's control. But with the dragons attacking indiscriminately, Moqorro does some Red Priest pyrotechnics, the slaves in the ships revolt in the face of dragons and a Red Priest (a Priest that is 2nd in command and is well known to them in the City, no doubt), and now everyone can come ashore and finish off the rest of the Yunkai forces (if they aren't already finished). Either Vic survives the fight or he doesn't -- but if he does, he'll have a horn he hasn't correctly claimed and will be vastly outnumbered now that the Volantine fleet has flipped sides. He basically has to join her impromptu Small Council as the new Master of Ships.

With Daenerys still MIA, all the pieces are in place for her entire army to now more West without her (probably to Volantis to free the other slaves) and Vic's dragonhorn can thus be used to make sure her other two dragons come with. With the Volantine fleet filled her Daenerys' army and the Iron Fleet protecting it, we can finally abandon Slaver's Bay and take everyone with us -- so Daenerys, when she learns what happens, has no choice but to saddle up Drogon and play catch-up!

[NotSoSilentSister]

I agree that Vic is thinking he needs to get out of dodge because of the Volantine fleet --

But Tyrion and Ser Jorah (and the readers) know that the slaves rowing those ships are mostly worshipers of the Red God and believe Daenerys is Azor Ahai. There's also her whole manumission campaign, which is ruffling feathers in Volantis to begin with. Vic is going to crush the Yunkai, but he's going to get pinned in by the Volantis fleet coming into the bay. He's then going to have his three thralls blow one-time a piece, and the dragons are going to come.

Valyrian magic is rooted in fire and blood, and you need one to get the other. The dragonhorn needs to be claimed with a sacrifice (blood for fire), and Vic is trying to skirt the rules by having three different men sound the horn in the hopes they won't die -- meaning I doubt when he blows the horn it isn't going to work like it's supposed to -- no matter who claims it. They'll likely hear the noise and join the frey, but I doubt they'll be under anyone's control. But with the dragons attacking indiscriminately, Moqorro does some Red Priest pyrotechnics, the slaves in the ships revolt in the face of dragons and a Red Priest (a Priest that is 2nd in command and is well known to them in the City, no doubt), and now everyone can come ashore and finish off the rest of the Yunkai forces (if they aren't already finished). Either Vic survives the fight or he doesn't -- but if he does, he'll have a horn he hasn't correctly claimed and will be vastly outnumbered now that the Volantine fleet has flipped sides. He basically has to join her impromptu Small Council as the new Master of Ships.

With Daenerys still MIA, all the pieces are in place for her entire army to now more West without her (probably to Volantis to free the other slaves) and Vic's dragonhorn can thus be used to make sure her other two dragons come with. With the Volantine fleet filled her Daenerys' army and the Iron Fleet protecting it, we can finally abandon Slaver's Bay and take everyone with us -- so Daenerys, when she learns what happens, has no choice but to saddle up Drogon and play catch-up!

I find this exceedingly plausible, especially the part where Moquorro flips the Volantene fleet and Victarion's best option is to become Dany's Master of ships.

Maybe the horn will indeed acomplish enough to keep the dragons somewhat in check - the one thing I can't really see is Victarion actually properly claiming one of the dragons and riding off in the sunset.

[Talking Hodor]

I can't see Euron letting that horn out of his sight if he suspected his brother/contender for the throne of double crossing him. That horn's going to do exactly what he wants it to do, regardless of Victarion's intentions. Whether it kills a dragon or binds it to Euron's will remains to be seen. Pyat Pree or some warlock killing Balon could still be a man without a face. The warlocks were capable of that sort of deception. Maybe they are faceless men, or maybe they trained the first one (the Valyrian slave).

[Talking Hodor]

Having a warlock in control of Euron, or wearing a Euron facemask would simplify things. Instead of there being a jillion nuncles, now there's only a jillion minus one.

[Hippocras]

Yeah, no. Euron is actually Euron.

His behavior is how his brothers know him best, not his face. His memories are too clear and complete.

[Rikard Stark]

For anyone who thinks Pyat Pree in particular is going to have some important story role, I believe the show had him killed.

The Show haven't necessarily killed him, Emilia Clarke said in an interview that it was Pree who sent the little warlock girl to Dany in Season 3. So maybe the show just killed one of the Pree fakes, that he can make. He could have been over powered and didn't know how to take on the fire breathing Dragons.

[Uldra I]

Lord Varys

4. Euron is painted as the main antagonist/threat to Daenerys Targaryen by Moqorro during his conversation with Tyrion. This could be a hint that Pyat Pree already has or will turn the table on Euron. It has been made clear during the Kingsmoot that Euron Greyjoy is built up as a force of destruction. Asha offers the Ironborn reality and common sense, whereas Euron fills up their heads with mad and dangerous dreams.

A connection with the Qartheen warlocks should add a lot to that, especially since they should have no interest to really help Euron and/or anyone in Westeros.

5. If Dragonbinder was originally in possession of the Qartheen, it may not exactly be a tool to enslave dragons, but a weapon against them. The Valyrian glyphs Moqorro read to Victarion suggests otherwise, but we don't even know whether he was lying to Victarion. And we certainly don't know if Pyat Pree and his colleagues told Euron the truth about the purpose of the horn. It's even possible that they added the glyphs to the horn to mislead anyone who would try to use it without their help/consent.

Never noticed this before. Sure is worth contemplating in my planned reread before The Winds of Winter. Thanks.

Not sure if I believe Euron is simply a mindless dupe of the warlocks or someone who truly knows what he is doing. The way GRRM wrote the wizards into Euron's story made me assume the latter, but your insight is swaying me to the 'dupe' theory. A greedy power-hungry dupe at that.

[#Fire and Blood]

One question though - why do you discount an FM?

It is not because Balon wound up dead that people think there was a Faceless Man, but because someone (ghost of high heart I think?) sais they saw "a man without a face" and something about crows and seaweed. So what would "a man without a face" refer to if not a faceless man?

I rather suspect that Euron is the man without a face, and where he went for all those years was the house of black and white for training.

if that is true, than whatever happens to Euron for leaving the FM will most likely be Arya's fate.....

[euron crows eye greyjoy]

okay, some thoughts on this whole matter:

1. "My guess is that Vic ends up as dragonrider joining team Dany..." no offense, but this is just a child's fantasy, nothing grrm would ever write.

2. I don't think Euron sees Victarion as a threat at all. It is mentioned several times that victarion is loyal per nature, and that Euron always was smarter than him. At one point Victarion recalls that Euron and Aeron used to make fun of him in their youth, in a way that Victarion didn't even get it until they would start laughing at him.

3. Concerning the horn: Moqorro said, when he read the valyrian Glyphs, that the horn must be claimed by blood. Euron got it from the warlocks, obviously he crashed their fleet or ship or whatever, taking them onship his Silence and removing their tongues. He claimed it by blood, assuming the warlocks were the masters of it before that. Vic on the other hand did not, so i guess the horn still "belongs" to Euron and therefore will bind the dragon to his will, since it makes no matter who blows it.

4. Concerning Euron himself: Euron is exactly the way Victarion and Theon remember him to be, i don't think he is somehow "controlled" by Pyat Pree, as his brothers would probably see through the illusion.

5. Somebody wrote "Euron's Faceless man (=the dusky woman)" -> Interesting thought, but there's a lot of preassumption in that statement :D

6. Euron claimed that he found the horn "amongst the smoking ruins that were valyria", where did you get the notion that he stole it form the warlocks?

btw: I so hope they get Mads Mikkelsen to play his part in the show :bowdown:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/324/6/a/mads_mikkelsen_as_euron_greyjoy_by_siriuscrane-d5lm5lr.jpg

[Mithras]

A glimpse:

- The warlocks could have visions of the future, in precision similar to the foresight of Moqorro (Euron's tactic to take the Shield Isles was daring - but was it just daring, the sign of his supreme tactic as naval commander, or had he magical insight?).

- Magical control of the elements could prove vital (and decisive) during the long-overdue battle between the Ironborn and the Redwyne fleet. I always said - and continue to say - that Euron will crush Paxter, but that's now a lot more likely that it was yesterday... Even if the warlocks can't control water, we know that there were some pretty impressive fire sorcerers back in Qarth.

It is obvious that Euron used "manipulated winds" in his attack to the Shields and that was crucial for the victory.

[Mithras]

I think it is possible that Moqorro himself will betray Victarion when the time is right. This might happen by the sabotage of the horn without Victarion’s knowledge and Rhaegal might kill him when he tries to mount. Moqorro is probably a fire wight just like Mel and he will blow the horn at some point.

Food. Yes, I should eat. Some days she forgot. R’hllor provided her with all the nourishment her body needed, but that was something best concealed from mortal men.

“If he were ten days in the water, he’d be dead, or mad from drinking seawater.” Salt water was holy; Aeron Damphair and other priests might bless men with it and swallow a mouthful or two from time to time to strengthen their faith, but no mortal man could drink of the deep sea for days at a time and hope to live. “You claim to be a sorcerer?” Victarion asked the prisoner.

“No, Captain,” the black man answered in the Common Tongue. His voice was so deep it seemed to come from the bottom of the sea. “I am but a humble slave of R’hllor, the Lord of Light.”

“Here it says, ‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

Since Moqorro is no mortal man, he can sound the horn and live. Same goes for the Undying.

[Lord Varys]

What we got from the TWoW reading from Vic, ist that he forbids Moqorro to handle the horn. The dusky woman is doing that.

[kn1tt3r]

It's an intriguing thought that the Dusky Woman might be a galmored warlock. That would also sort of explain why she "hissed" at Moqorro "like a snake" when she first saw him (in "The Iron Suitor" I think).

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think the remaining warlock are just waiting for right moment to betray Euron