Rhaegar fighting Robert

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yeah, originally typed 'knights' but didn't want to exclude guys like Sandor and the Northmen.

Or Loras Tyrell (flail) and Balon Swann (mace). The examples of knights picking a sword as their weapon when riding into battle prepared (not an ambush) amounts to Gregor and Sandor Clegane. And Renly's ghost.

[Nictarion]

He injured Robert severly enough but... I like to think he was somewhat distracted maybe, but if anything I don't fault him for bringing a sword I fault him for not bringing The Sword of the Morning Ser Arthur Dayne with him.

He had Barristan. Just as good.

[Lady Howell]

Nope. He'd be trained in the three knightly weapons: sword, mace and longaxe. Avoiding those lessons would be ...difficult at best.

Unless he was hopeless with them or simply didn't like them. As the crown prince in an age of peace and with no real interest in war beyond his prophecy, I think it'd be easy enough for him to remove or have someone else remove the mace from his learning curriculum. Plus, if he knew that his prophecy was somehow related to the Others or thought he would be the one wielding Lightbringer, a sword, he might have figured that the mace was a useless skill in his endeavor to fulfill the prophecy.

But that speculation aside, how well would a mace hold up against a warhammer? Anyone have the numbers?

[Mad Monkey]

We only have anecdotal information regarding that fight anyway. I don't think Robert would have bested Rhaegar in a fair fight.

It's not as if Robert used trickery. Really,

Unless he was hopeless with them or simply didn't like them. As the crown prince in an age of peace and with no real interest in war beyond his prophecy, I think it'd be easy enough for him to remove or have someone else remove the mace from his learning curriculum. Plus, if he knew that his prophecy was somehow related to the Others or thought he would be the one wielding Lightbringer, a sword, he might have figured that the mace was a useless skill in his endeavor to fulfill the prophecy.

That's true, but why do we think that Rhaegar would have deliberately avoided the mace? Is there something in the books that suggests that he didn't like maces?

[Lady Howell]

It's not as if Robert used trickery. Really,

That's true, but why do we think that Rhaegar would have deliberately avoided the mace? Is there something in the books that suggests that he didn't like maces?

Not saying he did or that there's any proof to that little theory. But if he was as good with a mace as with a sword due to his training, I would wonder why he didn't use one against Robert, which leads me to the conclusion that regardless of whether he could wield one proficiently or simply couldn't wield one at all, he was probably better with a sword, or at least more comfortable with it than with a mace. So him using the weapon he liked better/was better with isn't that big of a stretch of the imagination for me.

[Dorian Martell]

Just remember, Ser Vardis, in full plate with sword and shield was bested by Bron, who had Sword. Robert was the better fighter. Rhaegar won tourneys, but if you recall Brienne's master at arms and the his tale of the knights hesitation in battle that led to his death. Rhaegar might have been thinking about honor and prophecy and that hot piece of northern tail waiting for him in a marcher tower and Robert, while injured was waiting to the right moment to knock the rubies out of the prince's breast plate. Battle done, and now we wait for the books to start

[Mad Monkey]

Not saying he did or that there's any proof to that little theory. But if he was as good with a mace as with a sword due to his training, I would wonder why he didn't use one against Robert, which leads me to the conclusion that regardless of whether he could wield one proficiently or simply couldn't wield one at all, he was probably better with a sword, or at least more comfortable with it than with a mace. So him using the weapon he liked better/was better with isn't that big of a stretch of the imagination for me.

Ah, OK, I agree completely. It's rare for anyone to be equally good at everything they do. Most people have strengths and weaknesses even among things that they have extensive training in. Also, do we know if knights routinely carry around every weapon they are proficient in with them? Is it possible that Rhaegar didn't even have a mace with him, for the same reason that he wasn't carrying a lance or a warhammer or a trident?

[Lady Howell]

Ah, OK, I agree completely. It's rare for anyone to be equally good at everything they do. Most people have strengths and weaknesses even among things that they have extensive training in. Also, do we know if knights routinely carry around every weapon they are proficient in with them? Is it possible that Rhaegar didn't even have a mace with him, for the same reason that he wasn't carrying a lance or a warhammer or a trident?

From what I remember, Knights only carry one or two weapons (two weapons seeming very rare), probably the ones they're best with. Mostly swords, as I remember, of many different varieties suited for the wielder.

The sword Rhaegar carried was the one most suited for him probably, and if he carried a second weapon of any kind, whether it be a second sword or a mace, it was most likely the weapon he was best with after the sword he was using primarily during the fight with Robert. But we never see of any mention of a second weapon, so it might have either not been there in the first place or ever got the chance to be used.

I doubt we'll ever find out such a thing however, since it's such an insignificant detail.

[E-Ro]

From what I remember, Knights only carry one or two weapons (two weapons seeming very rare), probably the ones they're best with. Mostly swords, as I remember, of many different varieties suited for the wielder.

The sword Rhaegar carried was the one most suited for him probably, and if he carried a second weapon of any kind, whether it be a second sword or a mace, it was most likely the weapon he was best with after the sword he was using primarily during the fight with Robert. But we never see of any mention of a second weapon, so it might have either not been there in the first place or ever got the chance to be used.

I doubt we'll ever find out such a thing however, since it's such an insignificant detail.

Not really. the vast majority of knights will be running around with poleaxes. If they are mounted, they will have a lance. A sword will be a backup just in case. But no man in real life would go into battle with just a sword. Since this is fantasy and not real life, most lords and knights use swords. But I promise you, this was not the case in real life.

We do know that the brains behind the battles, the de-facto commanders, were Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. Robert was just the figurehead they placed on the throne afterwards.

We do know this? what? quotes please.

robert was on his own in the majority of battles in the start of the rebellion. Ned had command at the battle of the bells, and then all the rebel lords were together at the trident. Sooooooooo, where is this coming from?

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

We do know this? what? quotes please.robert was on his own in the majority of battles in the start of the rebellion. Ned had command at the battle of the bells, and then all the rebel lords were together at the trident. Sooooooooo, where is this coming from?

People mostly come to this conclusion because of that quote where a Robert gives Ned the credit for the Battle of the Bells, and becuase the rebel forces was mostly composed of Northerners during the Trident. Also becuase Robert lost to Randyll. Personally, I think Ned and Robert's commanding styles just complement each other's.

[E-Ro]

People mostly come to this conclusion because of that quote where a Robert gives Ned the credit for the Battle of the Bells, and becuase the rebel forces was mostly composed of Northerners during the Trident. Also becuase Robert lost to Randyll. Personally, I think Ned and Robert's commanding styles just complement each other's.

lol, I see. the battle of the bells was one indecisive battle that almost ended badly for the rebels. So yeah. One battle =/ a war. The mental gymnastics required to argue that Robert giving ned credit for one battle means Ned Stark and Jon Arryn were the de facto commanders of the rebellion is staggering. though I should add I do agree with everything else bbe has said in this thread.

Anyway, do we know the north bought the most men? I am legit curious, any information I can get on the rebellion I eat up, I see people say the north bought the most men often, but never were this information is from. I cant for the life of me remember a quote from the books on the matter, so i think its an ssm? Can someone link it for me?

I know that the north is the only area that did not have any targ loyalists, but does that mean that northmen were the majority of men at the trident?

[Gneisenau]

I wouldn't worry too much about realism considering Bronn without armor defeated Ser Vardis.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Anyway, do we know the north bought the most men? I am legit curious, any information I can get on the rebellion I eat up, I see people say the north bought the most men often, but never were this information is from. I cant for the life of me remember a quote from the books on the matter, so i think its an ssm? Can someone link it for me?

I know that the north is the only area that did not have any targ loyalists, but does that mean that northmen were the majority of men at the trident?

It's assumed that the North bought the most men, as they didn't have any loyalist in their region. I don't believe there's any real info on it, but I could be wrong. Still, I don't think they outnumbered their southern allies by much. One thing we do know is that one flank was entirely composed of Valemen. I think it's reasonable to assume that another was made up of Northmen, and that Robert was in command of Stormlanders and Riverlanders.

[E-Ro]

I wouldn't worry too much about realism considering Bronn without armor defeated Ser Vardis.

Ser vardis was

a. Old.

b. Using a ceremonial sword.

c. Using plate with a shield.

So yeah.

It's assumed that the North bought the most men, as they didn't have any loyalist in their region. I don't believe there's any real info on it, but I could be wrong. Still, I don't think they outnumbered their southern allies by much. One thing we do know is that one flank was entirely composed of Valemen. I think it's reasonable to assume that another was made up of Northmen, and that Robert was in command of Stormlanders and Riverlanders.

I see. Im not so sure, At the trident the rebels had 35,000 men. If you divide that by 4(each region, vale, riverlands, north, stormlands) that would mean each region had 8,750 men with them. We know Robert withdrew after his loss at ashford, but do people really think he had less then 8,000 men with him at this point? It doesnt seem likely to me, chances are the north vale and riverlands had the same amount of men. With robert bringing the least, but not by much. The low troop numbers(low for westeros, 35k is huge irl) can be easily explained by the lords leaving men behind, only bringing their best, and ned rushing south as quickly as humanly possible.

[C0bR]

Robert's injury most likely wasn't even severe. He let his maester tend to Selmy, dealt with surrenders and dispatched Ned to KL immediately after the battle so he was probably ok enough.

It was probably just a shallow cut in some annoying place which would've threatened to open if he attempted to sit on horse and race to KL. Don't forget that the sepsis was the greatest killer of medieval battles.

I would not be too surprised if Rhaegar simply wasn't trained in anything but sword. If his books said "sword" (which they probably did), he would only train with "sword". He was a spolied kid since early childhood so I doubt anybody could make him train with other weapons if he did not want too.

[Lady Howell]

Not really. the vast majority of knights will be running around with poleaxes. If they are mounted, they will have a lance. A sword will be a backup just in case. But no man in real life would go into battle with just a sword. Since this is fantasy and not real life, most lords and knights use swords. But I promise you, this was not the case in real life.

I was referring to the book, I assure you, when I said that. Mostly swords in the books, is what I meant, not in real life. Thanks for that interesting tidbit, though.

But wait...were Rhaegar or Robert ever mounted during the battle? If they were, perhaps, like you said, Rhaegar had some sort of secondary weapon on him after all.

[MyLittleFinger]

Unless he was hopeless with them or simply didn't like them. As the crown prince in an age of peace and with no real interest in war beyond his prophecy, I think it'd be easy enough for him to remove or have someone else remove the mace from his learning curriculum. Plus, if he knew that his prophecy was somehow related to the Others or thought he would be the one wielding Lightbringer, a sword, he might have figured that the mace was a useless skill in his endeavor to fulfill the prophecy.

But that speculation aside, how well would a mace hold up against a warhammer? Anyone have the numbers?

I think the only numbers that mattered was all 6'6 300lbs of muscle slamming that hammer around like a maniac.

[MyLittleFinger]

Robert's injury most likely wasn't even severe. He let his maester tend to Selmy, dealt with surrenders and dispatched Ned to KL immediately after the battle so he was probably ok enough.

It was probably just a shallow cut on the somewhere which would've threatened to open if he attempted to sit on horse and race to KL. Don't forget that the sepsis was the greatest killer of medieval battles.

I would not be too surprised if Rhaegar simply wasn't trained in anything but sword. If his books said "sword" (which they probably did), he would only train with "sword". He was a spolied kid since early childhood so I doubt anybody could make him train with other weapons if he did not want too.

Robert was also still recovering from the injury he had prior to the Battle of the Bells at this point.

[Lady Howell]

I think the only numbers that mattered was all 6'6 300lbs of muscle slamming that hammer around like a maniac.

Probably, but I'm still curious about what, if any weapon could have matched Robert's strength combined with his warhammer. I doubt a mace could, but who knows, right? Rhaegar might have actually been able to stand a chance if he had simply had the correct weaponry. Or perhaps he was simply doomed regardless of what was in his hand.

[MyLittleFinger]

Probably, but I'm still curious about what, if any weapon could have matched Robert's strength combined with his warhammer. I doubt a mace could, but who knows, right? Rhaegar might have actually been able to stand a chance if he had simply had the correct weaponry. Or perhaps he was simply doomed regardless of what was in his hand.

Stick a lance through him like the Mountain on Beric? One on one it really isn't fair without some luck.