Had Jon accepted Stannis offer, would the North declare for him?

[Torrhen Blackwood]

Stannis comes across as an atheist, or at least I get that impression. I don't think he would burn anything if he can avoid it. Now he's rid of Mel, but he still has a lot of zealots following him.

I tend to agree with this line of thought. Stannis strikes me as too practical to let religion get in the way of his overall purpose. If Jon would have accepted his offer with the only stipulation of keeping the Old Gods and the Godswood, I think Stannis would have relented. Stannis would be a bit pissed, but thats just Stannis.

To the original question: yes, I believe the North would have rallied for Jon. He keeps the Old Gods, has the "Stark look", and a direwolf. The Manderlys would of waited but they would eventually went over to Jon. I believe the mountain clans would of been the first to go to Jon.

[NightStark]

The main problem I have with the GNC is that they kill the king that would have legitimised Jon. Overthrowing him in favor of a king in the North would mean they didn't recognise Stannis as king in the first place thus making Jon's status null and void. We get a chicken and an egg scenario here in that case.

Or how would that work? Maybe there's a loophole, namely just don't care and the North collectively legitimizes Jon.

Wll I'm suggesting two scenarios,

One where Stannis makes Jon a Stark and the Northerners accept Stannis as their king and say 'Well we have common enemies, you helped the NW and you're attacking the Boltons, we'll bend the knee'.

and another where he legitimises Jon but the Northerners say; 'No thanks, we have our own thing going on here with Rickon, we want independence...goodbye Stannis'.

I think the first option is the best really, imo anyway. They do have common enemies, they can all join forces against the Boltons, crush them..cross the Neck, crush the Freys and so on.

If they go with the Rickon option, they can kill the Boltons on their own and declare independence. Stannis will go south alone, possibly be defeated and the southerners will turn on the North again and they don't really have the men to defend it on their own.

I think that joining Stannis and bending the knee is the better option. He was the only king to aid the NW and is actively trying to destroy the Boltons. If they go it alone and isolate themselves from the South there is no guarantee that the Freys, Lannisters etc. will get what is coming to them, if they join Stannis and go south with him there is a better chance Ned, Robb etc. will be avenged.

I think Stannis would be grateful for a contingent of Northerners on his side with winter coming, they understand winter better than any southerner and will of benefit to him because of that. I think Tywin was desperate to get the WoT5K over and done with before winter came because of that.

[XSarellaX]

We also need to consider the fact that Manderly knows Rickons whereabouts... he could see Jon as a bastard and oathbreaker who is stealing his brother's seat, and try to rally the North behind Rickons. But if he knows how much Jon loves his siblings, perhaps he would see an advantage in giving him more power, maybe as a regent, since he would care for Rickon far more than anyone else in the North could.

[Misnthropia]

I agree with whats said above, Stannis is using religion as a means to an end. End of the day he needs men. If the Red one is providing keep on praying.

Id say most of them would know theyre totally screwed at the moment and siding with Stannis and Jon with the hopes of coming out of it under the rule of a Stark rather than under the shadow of the Dreadfort would be the better option - regardless of vows.

He fought with the Nights Watch, so they know he is tried in battle, he defended Castle Black, they know he keeps the old ways, raised by Ned Stark.

The only house that would with hold is the Karstarks and I dont think they would declare for any Stark after what Robb did.

Whats to stop Jon stepping aside once Rickon is found and heading back to the watch? I dont think Jon has any interest in being King in the North and his "bastard" title is so ingrain into him he doesnt want to.

[Stormland's Fury]

To the original question: yes, I believe the North would have rallied for Jon. He keeps the Old Gods, has the "Stark look", and a direwolf. The Manderlys would of waited but they would eventually went over to Jon. I believe the mountain clans would of been the first to go to Jon.

I completely forgot about the Stark look, they stressed that a lot in the first book, so maybe that could come into play.

I think that joining Stannis and bending the knee is the better option. He was the only king to aid the NW and is actively trying to destroy the Boltons.

I think Stannis would be their best bet considering the reason they wanted achieve independence: not choosing between Renly or Stannis because they don't care about the North (paraphrasing). Well Stannis was quite busy up there for some time, so maybe that sways them to his side anyway.

[NightStark]

We also need to consider the fact that Manderly knows Rickons whereabouts... he could see Jon as a bastard and oathbreaker who is stealing his brother's seat, and try to rally the North behind Rickons. But if he knows how much Jon loves his siblings, perhaps he would see an advantage in giving him more power, maybe as a regent, since he would care for Rickon far more than anyone else in the North could.

Well I think Manderly would understand that Jon thinks Rickon is dead and that he's doing it out of necessity as the last(to his knowledge)living son of Ned Stark. As soon as Manderly tells Jon that Rickon is alive, Jon would step back and put his weight behind his brother.

[NightStark]

I think Stannis would be their best bet considering the reason they wanted achieve independence: not choosing between Renly or Stannis because they don't care about the North (paraphrasing). Well Stannis was quite busy up there for some time, so maybe that sways them to his side anyway.

Exactly, it's time to compromise and get revenge on those who deserve it.

[herr witz]

Well I think Manderly would understand that Jon thinks Rickon is dead and that he's doing it out of necessity as the last(to his knowledge)living son of Ned Stark. As soon as Manderly tells Jon that Rickon is alive, Jon would step back and put his weight behind his brother.

Jon would absolutely do that, I think. Especially if he learns that R+L=J (i.e. he isn't Ned's son).

[Bluecore]

Yes, I do think the North would accept Jon if he had accepted Stannis' offer. I believe that once the agreement was public knowledge, Robb Stark's last will and testament would come in to play, and it would be revealed that Jon had been named Robb's heir anyways (until one of his brothers or son comes of age, or whatever).

[Darkbringer]

Maybe not. If Jon had taken Stannis's offer, the North wouldn't be independant, which is what the Northerners want. He would also have had to turn away from the Old Gods and embrace the Red God, something the Northerners would never accept. They would see him as a sell-out and would never forgive him. Jon did the right thing in not accepting Stannis's offer.

I could be wrong, butI have a feeling that the North may have given up on the 'King in the North, dream. I think that revenge on the Freys and Boltons would satisfy honour at this stage.

[Petyr Patter]

Maybe not. If Jon had taken Stannis's offer, the North wouldn't be independant, which is what the Northerners want. He would also have had to turn away from the Old Gods and embrace the Red God, something the Northerners would never accept. They would see him as a sell-out and would never forgive him. Jon did the right thing in not accepting Stannis's offer.

The North went for almost 300 years without independence, and it took murdering two Lord Paramounts of Winterfell in a row before deciding they had enough.

A Stannis that restores a Lord Paramount of Winterfell pretty much cancels out their major grievance with the Iron Throne.

[XSarellaX]

And if The North isn't a separate kingdom, they don't need to defend the Riverlands which means they actually have more chances of defending themselves against the Iron Throne, once they get the ironborn out of M. Callin and can rely on their natural defences. Unless Stannis wants them to go south to fight his war..

[The Bastard of Walton]

If Robb's Will legitimized Jon as a Stark, I think the North would rally to him. But the North will soon have The Wild Wolf of the North to rally too, when Davos returns with Rickon.

[Stormland's Fury]

If Robb's Will legitimized Jon as a Stark, I think the North would rally to him. But the North will soon have The Wild Wolf of the North to rally too, when Davos returns with Rickon.

In that case the Hand of King Stannis would have saved and brought back a Stark heir who said king would put reinstate in the North. I think that would be reason enough for the Northerners to rally to Stannis.

[Wmarshal]

Yeah, no. Jon betrayed their gods and the watch. His head would be removed from his body.As to what the northerners would do, probably lock their many wounds and await for a new choice, rallying to Jon, or fighting for the boltons is not their only choices.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The main reason to declare independence from the crown was that the King, son of Lannister house, cut their Lord Paramount's head. And before that, a Lannister was accused of trying to kill one of such Paramount's children (the wrong Lannister, but whatever). IICR, the North was never actually conquered, they bent the knee. Now, they decided to "unbent" it.

I always though that Stannis was completely wrong ignoring the advice to join and support Robb and he was a bit blind to realise that Robb's problem with the King were due to the reasons exposed above instead of simply taking the chance to call the North away from the realms. Instead of telling the North "yes, I will bring justice to Ned Stark" he goes like "my kingdom! traitors!". Funny thing is that he's actually doing what he should have done like three books ago anyway.

[illrede]

I think Jon could have negotiated away from burning the Weirwood if he meant to accept the offer; they certainly reached an accomidation on the matter of the castles and the wildlings. He probably would make some traction with the North, following the advice he gave Stannis for his own ends.

Stannis wouldn't have liked and valued him nearly as much as he came to if he hadn't been so stubborn and contrary, though.

[Wmarshal]

The main reason to declare independence from the crown was that the King, son of Lannister house, cut their Lord Paramount's head. And before that, a Lannister was accused of trying to kill one of such Paramount's children (the wrong Lannister, but whatever). IICR, the North was never actually conquered, they bent the knee. Now, they decided to "unbent" it.

I always though that Stannis was completely wrong ignoring the advice to join and support Robb and he was a bit blind to realise that Robb's problem with the King were due to the reasons exposed above instead of simply taking the chance to call the North away from the realms. Instead of telling the North "yes, I will bring justice to Ned Stark" he goes like "my kingdom! traitors!". Funny thing is that he's actually doing what he should have done like three books ago anyway.

What? Robb was his bannermen, why bow to him? The north brought itself to the throne and Stannis was owed Robb's loyalty. Robb was a rebel king. A king to all men that served him but not by any rights or laws.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I agree the Northmen didn't have to know Jon, Ned claimed Jon as his son, none of them would have issues with him for that reason. Add in the fact that Jon looks like Ned, was raised in Winterfell with his own children, and has a direwolf I don't see him having any problem getting support. As for the weirwood, if Jon says its a deal breaker because it would make it all pointless Stannis would complain but he'd eventually agree.

[The Bastard of Walton]

Stormland's Fury I agree, they will flock to Rickon as a Liege Lord, to Stannis as there King. Stannis is the one true King.