[Spoilers] Dark Souls 2 part Deux

[Muttering Bill]

The thing that bugs me most is that the invade covenants come so late that a new player is never going to be invaded, which then means that they'll probably have switched out of the Blues for the Sentinels, and then never found sinners so switched from the Sentinels to (probably) the Bellbros, and then...nothing. Also, that the Blood Cov guys don't duel a lot. Sure, there are limited eye orbs. Winning a duel gets you a free eye orb! Its easily the best way to get the damn things! Why aren't there constant duels in the Blood arena?

See, if there were still unlimitted Eye Orbs, then that wouldn't be a problem. You can join the BoB very early if you want to. You only have to beat Dragonrider and Executioner's Charriot. You can joing the Blues Sentinels even more easily, beating just Old Dragonslayer. But you can't invade much at low levels because you only get a couple of Cracked Red Eye Orbs, and winning in the arena is impossible at that level (AFAIK, there are no SL/SM restrictions in the arena.)

I've only checked out the BoB arena for the first time tonight, but I've been getting pretty steady action.

I got all this sin accumulated for new game + so I could get invaded by blues. I got invaded 3 times and died, and lost all my sin. FUCK. I really liked the constant invasions for those first three times.

You gotta kill everybody. When I first went into NG+ I had about 35 Sin, just from NPC's. Every time you die to a Blue you lose 1 Sin. And when you get down to 9 Sin, you stop getting invaded.

[Slurktan]

So I started another game, this time as a dual wielder. Didn't die until today when I ran into the Executioner's Chariot. I fought it only once on my other playthrough and found it fairly easy (duck in doorways, kill necros, then beat up a horse). This time I've took it on 10 times, 6 by my sweet lonesome and 4 where I was summoned. It glitched on 8 of those times where when you raise the gate the horse continues the running animation and you just die no matter how close you are to it. Then I went on tilt and the last two I was just dumb and got skellied.

Then I said fuck that and went and did Harvest Valley and to my eternal shame I actually fucking died on Covetous Demon. I hadn't seen the tail go up in my first playthrough so I just stood there like an idiot and watched it crash down on me for a 1 hit KO. I'm actually ashamed lol. Such an easy fricken boss too.

[aceluby]

I think they did a much better job w/ covenants this time around. You have PvE covenants in Champions and Dark. You have PvP covenants in Blood and blues. You have the unique Rat covenant which IMO will be great once we get some player events in those areas to take advantage of it. Then you have the co-op covenants in the Sun and both blue covenants. Whatever you like, there is a covenant geared for you, whether it's challenging PvE, PvP, something unique, or co-op.

I also think that they limited the invasion mechanic in NG so that there would be fewer invasions in NG, and then a lot more for NG+ and beyond. This allows new players to get invaded, just not often, while also encouraging those who like to invade to do so in NG+ since they'll eventually have too much SM if they are good invaders. I think it works perfectly in that regard and welcome the change from the previous iterations.

I finished up all the bosses in Demon's Souls this weekend except for King Allant, who I helped beat as a phantom. Sitting around SL55 and 20 hours total. Game is so much easier than I remember. Never died in world 5, had no issues w/ the guys in 4-2 like I did my first time, and had no problems going all melee for all of the bosses. It's funny how many bosses I just completely forgot about. Now I am deciding whether or not I want to do some end game stuff and do some trophy hunting, or if I want to just move on to Dark Souls 1 and continue my series playthrough. I'm leaning towards DS1 and do some titanite farming after I'm done w/ DS2.

[TheEvilKing]

I find online a lot more active than DaS, although that may be a side-effect of playing it on PC, rather than on 360. When I'm not hollow I see summon signs freaking everywhere, and get summoned myself always within a minute of putting my sign down.

I just joined the Sunbros, although I'm not sure what the benefits are over being in the Blue Weaklings. Do you just get summoned easier?

[aceluby]

I find online a lot more active than DaS, although that may be a side-effect of playing it on PC, rather than on 360. When I'm not hollow I see summon signs freaking everywhere, and get summoned myself always within a minute of putting my sign down.

I just joined the Sunbros, although I'm not sure what the benefits are over being in the Blue Weaklings. Do you just get summoned easier?

I've heard you get a bigger range in either SM or SL, though I'm not sure if that's been confirmed. It may just be other Sunbros too... I know it was really easy to be summoned regardless, so who knows?

[Slurktan]

I find online a lot more active than DaS, although that may be a side-effect of playing it on PC, rather than on 360. When I'm not hollow I see summon signs freaking everywhere, and get summoned myself always within a minute of putting my sign down.

I just joined the Sunbros, although I'm not sure what the benefits are over being in the Blue Weaklings. Do you just get summoned easier?

The Sunbro ring makes your attack miracles hit harder, as well they get Sunlight Spear if you get 30 medals.

[Muttering Bill]

I just joined the Sunbros, although I'm not sure what the benefits are over being in the Blue Weaklings. Do you just get summoned easier?

You get to be grossly incadescent. Isn't that enough?

You also get the Sun Sword, the best quality weapon. And Sunlight Spear for Faith builds.

[TheEvilKing]

I don't use a faith build or miracles, so the awards are a bit useless to me. But hell, I like being a Sunbro, I'll stick with it.

[Inigima]

Since people were asking, here's the podcast I guested on. The DS2 stuff is toward the back.

http://game-wisdom.com/podcast/breaking-down-dark-souls-2

[Muttering Bill]

Since people were asking, here's the podcast I guested on. The DS2 stuff is toward the back.

http://game-wisdom.com/podcast/breaking-down-dark-souls-2

A couple of notes...

First, what are you looking for to use on Smelter? Outside a Flame Quartz Ring (purchaseable from Rosabeth), I can't think of anything that would be really useful. His AOE is easy to spot and avoid; when he jumps up and stabs his sword into the floor, then back away.

About the endgame being not as good as the first 2/3's. I disagree. Firstly, I love the Shrine of Amana. Undead Crypt is a little disappointing, and the approach to Velstadt really is annoying. But Dragon Aerie makes up for all of it. In contast, it's much better than the last 1/3'd of DS1.

And about the black phantom enemies being less threatening than those in DeS... in general I agree. But the Greatsword phantom in front of Undead Crypt and Navlaan hold up against any DeS phantom.

Regarding multiple enemy bosses... I don't have a problem with it when you have something like the Gargoyles, double Dragonriders, Throne Watcher and Defender, or even Looking Glass Knight summoning a friend. It's the ones with minor add-ons that gets tired: Freja, RR Authority, Prowling Magus.

On a side note, last time I fought LGK he summoned 6 or 7 squires. Once I got him to half health they were just contant. Every time I finished one off he would summon another immediately. It ended up being a really tough fight, and I really enjoyed it. Still beat him in the one try.

Nice, thanks, unfortunately, however (dunno whether just bad luck or the game), after grinding them all down, only the four pre boss fog carried twinkling titanite, better than nothing though.

Bad luck. I've been farming out Amana tonight. I've already gotten 17 Twinkling Titanites, and I'm only half done with the place. Got to stack item find gear - Coveteous Gold Serpent Ring, Prisoner's Tatters, Traveling Merchant or Jester Hats.

[Inigima]

First, what are you looking for to use on Smelter? Outside a Flame Quartz Ring (purchaseable from Rosabeth), I can't think of anything that would be really useful. His AOE is easy to spot and avoid; when he jumps up and stabs his sword into the floor, then back away.

About the endgame being not as good as the first 2/3's. I disagree. Firstly, I love the Shrine of Amana. Undead Crypt is a little disappointing, and the approach to Velstadt really is annoying. But Dragon Aerie makes up for all of it. In contast, it's much better than the last 1/3'd of DS1.

I meant the Flame Quartz Ring, yeah. I have one now, I just haven't gone back yet.

Re: Amana, you're very sick. :)

[Muttering Bill]

Another thing I wanted to comment on from the podcast was in regards to Estus. Your host thought that the limited Estus early on was too punishing to new players.

So in DS1 they introduced Estus to limit player healing, but they didn't go far enough in restricting it. You start with 5, Kindly a bonfire and you get 10. As soon as you get to Lordran you can run down to the Catacombs, take the shortcut and summon Paladin Leeroy to kill Pinwheel. Now you are basically starting the game with 20 Estus charges. On top of that you have consumable Humanities; farmable in a few locations and offer a full heal on use. So health management was never the issue it was intended it to be.

But I really like the dynamic between Estus and Lifegems in DS2. Like they acknowledged that people wanted more healing ablity and would find a way to get it regardless. So now on the one hand you have Estus, limited use that's actually limited. It gives you a pretty big heal, and its effects work quickly. But drinking it takes a couple of seconds where you are completely vulnerable. On the other hand you have Lifegems, sold in infinite supply, but it's effects are smaller and gradual. Used more quickly and you can stay moving during most of the animation.

So what you end up with is when the player needs to heal mid-battle, now they have to decide: do I have time to stop and Estus, or do I settle for a Lifegem and stay mobile. I think that works better than the failed restrictions that DS1 tried. And Estus Shards are well placed to give you more when you need more.

[Inigima]

I agree, I didn't really find the estus limiting -- the game shits lifegems at you at a breakneck pace anyway. And then you need them less and less.

[aceluby]

Moved on to DS1 for my series playthrough. I'm now seeing why they implemented soul memory. Nothing but low level twinks with end game gear. Was invaded a half dozen times and didn't see a single 'real' invasion. One guy invaded me and casted pursuers. One guy hit me w/ dark bead. One guy and the DLC flame sword. One guy I backstabbed w/ a +5 zweil and did 18 damage. I did more to Havel... and the summons are just as bad, or even worse.

I've decided that I will do a all hollowed run after that. Continuing my quality build I am aiming for 40 Str/ 30 Dex, rocking a big heavy sword for the first time playing this game. Bosses go down like butta.

[Muttering Bill]

Soul Memory was a necessary feature, but I don't think they got it right. I've seen suggestions that SM should be a combination of Soul Level (or the amount of souls required to get there) and an assigned soul value of gear equiped, with upgrades increasing the value. I like that idea better. Combined with the stricter stat requirements, if you want to be low level with full Havel's then you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of other stats to pull it off. People just playing through normally will only see invaders similarly levelled/equiped. And anybody running low level twinks will see either the same or people who are levelled enough to better deal with them. It wouldn't be breakable by the Mule either (I think).

The way it is now, with every soul counting, just punishes people who are struggling through the game or keeping to low levels for challenge runs.

I've decided that I will do a all hollowed run after that. Continuing my quality build I am aiming for 40 Str/ 30 Dex, rocking a big heavy sword for the first time playing this game. Bosses go down like butta.

I did a STR build with a Demon's Great Machette (+10 very early) that just tore through everthing. Beat Artorias in 6 hits. Still couldn't get past Manus though. I hate that guy! The one Souls boss that I've never beaten. Although I've never even fought Kalameet, as he is always planned for after Manus.

I'll probably go back to my playthrough DeS soon. (Nearly done with my 6th playthrough of DS2 and don't have an idea for a new character yet.) I should be able to get through it in a couple of days. I don't anticipate having trouble with any of the bosses except the Maneaters. I'll do DS1 offline so I don't have to play it all ugly and hollow. I'm also doing DeS offline to control World Tendencies.

[MerenthaClone]

Honestly, I'm not sure SM is needed at all. The difficulty in acquiring an appreciable amount of red eye orbs early basically means that low-level ganking isn't a problem like DS1 was. Then, the top PvP set-up is currently Hexes, which have pretty steep level requirements. The other one involves Havel's and Avelyns, which is less level-intensive, but still requires getting through the game and does benefit from scaling. SL would work. So would using SM until NG+, then switching to SL. At that point, everyone has access to everything and SL would matter.

[aceluby]

I really like SM. It's really difficult to acquire the red eye orb as a low SL in DS1. Fast forward to today and the only people invading at pretty much every SL are those who have end game gear and don't even have to dodge because a Zweil +5 R2 to the face not only doesn't break their poise, it does a whopping 18 damage and parry for almost 50 while being one shot by dark bead.

If SM wasn't a thing people would find a way to do the same in DS2, which is pretty obvious by the fact that so many do this via the MegaMule.

After SL150 or so SL doesn't matter much anyway, just your options at doing damage and health. At that point most people are doing near max damage via their favorite stat(s). It was the same in DS1 too. If you invade as a red you can invade any number of levels above you. The only difference is that now the invader can invade down, but seeing as we're talking 'PvP' and not just invasions, I don't see a difference. So yeah, I like SM and actually like its implementation as is. I know I'm in the minority on this one.

[Slurktan]

I did a STR build with a Demon's Great Machette (+10 very early) that just tore through everthing. Beat Artorias in 6 hits. Still couldn't get past Manus though. I hate that guy! The one Souls boss that I've never beaten. Although I've never even fought Kalameet, as he is always planned for after Manus.

Kalameet is a weird one. I've fought him 5 times. I died the first time on a test run to see his patterns, the other 4 he never hit me. Once you learn his stuff it's easy, just takes awhile cause he has godly resists to everything. Manus is harder to me cause he has a sort of unpredictability. Plus always make sure to only have estus and the dark pendant in your item slot to quick change when he casts.

[MerenthaClone]

Kalameet is a weird one. I've fought him 5 times. I died the first time on a test run to see his patterns, the other 4 he never hit me. Once you learn his stuff it's easy, just takes awhile cause he has godly resists to everything. Manus is harder to me cause he has a sort of unpredictability. Plus always make sure to only have estus and the dark pendant in your item slot to quick change when he casts.

I'd say don't bother with the pendant. He has three dark attacks: If he raises his staff up, charge him. If he swipes it side to side, start sidestepping and side-roll the Dark Bead. If he raises his staff in a totally different way I can't remember, just start moving back and dodge the hail when necessary. That one is particularly easy to avoid, I've found. Manus is also greatly helped by using a shield. Not all of his attacks can or should be tanked, but for many of them, you're better off taking the first hit or two on your shield and then dodging out of the follow-up. They're timed so that if you just dodge, you'll often get slammed by the follow-up attack, because they track well. He's really the first boss you can't just hide behind a shield (unless you have the Greatshield of Artorias, then go nuts) you need to mix in dodges too.

Great boss, I love fighting him.

[Jory Cassel]

Bad luck. I've been farming out Amana tonight. I've already gotten 17 Twinkling Titanites, and I'm only half done with the place. Got to stack item find gear - Coveteous Gold Serpent Ring, Prisoner's Tatters, Traveling Merchant or Jester Hats.

Did use Gold Serpent Ring, I was not aware that there were other items boosting the droprate.

I did a STR build with a Demon's Great Machette (+10 very early) that just tore through everthing. Beat Artorias in 6 hits. Still couldn't get past Manus though. I hate that guy! The one Souls boss that I've never beaten. Although I've never even fought Kalameet, as he is always planned for after Manus.

I beat Manus by bringing him down with arrows from outside the bossfog and only finished him off in close combat, dishonorable yet effective.