Small questions v.10079

[TheCrannogDweller]

I have to switch to Chrome.

There are other browsers, you know. I use Firefox and the board works fine with it.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It would not surprise me at all if LF had some hand in Robert's Rebellion, or the events leading up to...I had a similar thought, but I will have to find it in my admittedly scattered and ridiculously messy notes I started keeping halfway through GoT. Anyway, it would keep with Littlefinger's bitter, ambitious personality. I'm not sure if there's clues to his true involvement in the events that led to The War of the Five Kings (if there were I didn't catch it until it's clearly laid out near the end of SoS before LF "uses" the Moon Door...but it was this, The Bastard's move on Theon, and some of the Dreams and Prophecies (probably a few other things too) that opened my eyes enough to start seeing a bigt more of the subtle stuff. It seems as if Baelish is involved in almost every intrigue he is even peripheral to. Nice theory, you've got me thinking LF again!

GRRM has confirmed that LF was not involved in getting Brandon the news about Lyanna. LF was severely injured, close to dying even.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Was Varys at the Tourney at Harrenhal?

Most likely not. He has not been mentioned to have been present, and I doubt he would have been welcome.

[FittleLinger]

Ok, in AFFC, when Jaime meets Jenna Lannister and her Frey husband, first it's noted that he is 60 (the husband, was he Emmon?), and after that - that Jenna's been a Frey for 50 years. Is this an oversight, were they betrothed since he was 10, or is Jaime simply hyperbolizing the 50 years (like, he could say 100 years and mean the same thing - a long time.)

Also, why didn't it raise some eyebrows amongst anyone in Robb's camp that the Freys are actually connected to the Lannisters through this marriage?

Thanks.

[AlliYoyo]

Hello everyone. my question is to do with the Doom that came to Valyria. How is it that more dragons did not survive? Sure, many of the Dragons would have been in Valyria, but with the size of the Valyrian freehold, surely some would have been more spread out to the north, east and west. It cannot of only been the Targyrens who were keeping their Dragons outside Valyria.

Also, an earthquake is not gonna kill a Dragon because a Dragon can fly. Dragons are fire made flesh so lava will not kill them either. I can accept that giant tidal waves may catch a dragon and kill it, but the waves had to originate somewhere and head out in a particular direction, meaning not all of the Valyrian landmass was hit by a giant tidal wave anyway.

There are other hazards to volcanoes than just lava. Poisonous gases are released, so even if the dragons were trying to fly away they may have suffocated. There's also the pyroclastic flow, which tends to be the cause of more deaths than lava (I would think, anyway, I could be wrong). And pyroclastic flows happen so fast that even a flying dragon may not be able to escape in time.

The only problem I can think of to the latter is that dragons may well be as resistant to a pyroclastic flow as they are to fire.

It could be, but the appropriate authorities would have to agree to it. I'm not sure who the appropriate authorities to appeal to would be. If it's the High Sparrow, and he can do it on his own authority, he might be willing, but Sansa would probably have to come back to King's Landing to make an appeal and that would not be a good idea for her. If she requires the permission of the King to annul the marriage, that probably won't happen -- Cersei would want to keep her tied to the Lannisters. (Well, Cersei would prefer to have her dead, obviously, but if that's not possible she definitely shouldn't be set free to make another marriage.)

On the other hand, Littlefinger seems confident that if Sansa marries Harry the Heir, it will be a legal marriage, so I would guess this is what he has up his sleeve to make that work out.

Maybe Littlefinger is banking on the idea that Tyrion will be dead when the time for the marriage comes. But I would say that you are right and he has something up his sleeve.

Also, why didn't it raise some eyebrows amongst anyone in Robb's camp that the Freys are actually connected to the Lannisters through this marriage?

Thanks.

Maybe it did, but IIRC, the Freys were bannermen to the Tullys, so as such their loyalty should have been to the Tullys and by extension the "King in the North". Certainly that's the angle Catelyn was more concerned with.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Ok, in AFFC, when Jaime meets Jenna Lannister and her Frey husband, first it's noted that he is 60 (the husband, was he Emmon?), and after that - that Jenna's been a Frey for 50 years. Is this an oversight, were they betrothed since he was 10, or is Jaime simply hyperbolizing the 50 years (like, he could say 100 years and mean the same thing - a long time.)

Also, why didn't it raise some eyebrows amongst anyone in Robb's camp that the Freys are actually connected to the Lannisters through this marriage?

Thanks.

They were not only connected through marriage, Genna's kids actually fought in the Lannister army. Tion Frey was one of the two Lannister hostages murdered by Lord Karstark. I have no idea why it was never an issue though.

As far as Genna goes - I think Jaime may be counting the betrothal, too. According to the wiki, Genna was born in 245, Tywin - in 242. IIRC, she said that he was 10 at the time of her engagement, so that would place it in 252. Which is approximately 50 years before the conversation.

[Vikingr]

If the Valyrian word for man is "Valar," does the name Valarr (Prince Valarr Targaryen) mean anything?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ok, in AFFC, when Jaime meets Jenna Lannister and her Frey husband, first it's noted that he is 60 (the husband, was he Emmon?), and after that - that Jenna's been a Frey for 50 years. Is this an oversight, were they betrothed since he was 10, or is Jaime simply hyperbolizing the 50 years (like, he could say 100 years and mean the same thing - a long time.)

Also, why didn't it raise some eyebrows amongst anyone in Robb's camp that the Freys are actually connected to the Lannisters through this marriage?

Thanks.

It's generalization. Jaime thought about 50 years, but that would mean "about 50 years" and not "exactly 50 years.

[FittleLinger]

It's generalization. Jaime thought about 50 years, but that would mean "about 50 years" and not "exactly 50 years.

Yeah, I wasn't really on about being exactly 50 years or about 50 years, but rather that I thought it was way too early for a marriage/betrothal, given their ages. But on the next page it was stated that Genna was 7 and Emmon was 14, so yes, it adds up.

An interesting question remains though. Why would Tytos marry his only daughter to the second son of not-so major house like Frey? And not only this, but he was apparently eager to do this given Genna's age.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Most likely not. He has not been mentioned to have been present, and I doubt he would have been welcome.

He might have been in disguise. His absence from KL would have been noted, however, if he had not benn invited to travel with Aerys. But I'm sure he was kept well apprised of the events at Harrenhal.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yeah, I wasn't really on about being exactly 50 years or about 50 years, but rather that I thought it was way too early for a marriage/betrothal, given their ages. But on the next page it was stated that Genna was 7 and Emmon was 14, so yes, it adds up.

An interesting question remains though. Why would Tytos marry his only daughter to the second son of not-so major house like Frey? And not only this, but he was apparently eager to do this given Genna's age.

Tytos was a man who loved to please others, and would have been easy to influence. Lord Walder seems to have taken advantage of this, marrying off his son to a lion.

As to when Genna and Emmon were engaged:

Genna was born in either 245AC or 246AC, Emmon was born in 239AC, Genna and Emmon were betrothed in 253AC

Explanation:

Genna Lannister was 7 years old when she was betrothed to Emmon Frey, who was 14 at the time. Emmon is 60 years old in 300 AC. For Emmon, this gives the following possibilities:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

o This means Emmon was 14 years old in 254 AC (when he turned 14) and 255 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

o This means Emmon was 14 years old during 253 AC (when he turned 14) and 254 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

Emmon thus could have been 14 in three different years: 253 AC, 254 AC and 255 AC. For Genna, this creates the following options:

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 253 AC

o 6 turning 7 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

o 7 turning 8 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 245 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 254 AC

o 6 turning 7 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

o 7 turning 8 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 255 AC

o 6 turning 7 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 248 AC

o 7 turning 8 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

This leaves the options of being born in 245 AC, 246 AC, 247 AC and 248 AC for Genna.

During these same events, Genna’s brother Tywin was 10 years old. Tywin was born in 242 AC. Being born in 242 AC leaves the following options for Tywin being 10:

· 9 turning 10 in 252 AC

· 10 turning 11 in 253 AC

This shows that the only moment when Tywin was 10 while Genna was 7 and Emmon 14, happened in 253 AC. Therefore, Genna was 7 years old in 253 AC, showing she was either 6 turning 7, placing her birth in 246 AC, or 7 turning 8, placing her birth in 245 AC.

Emmon Frey was 14 years old when Genna Lannister was 7 and Tywin Lannister was 10. This occurred in 253 AC. With Emmon being 14 years old in 253 AC, this leaves the following options:

· Being 13 turning 14 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

· Being 14 turning 15 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 238 AC

In the year 300, Emmon is 60 years old. This leaves the following options:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

The only overlapping year is 239 AC. This shows that Emmon was born in 239 AC, and that he will be turning 61 in 300 AC. It also shows that Emmon had turned 14 the year he was betrothed to Genna Lannister.

[Bob Sacamano]

Most likely not. He has not been mentioned to have been present, and I doubt he would have been welcome.

I just ask because he could potentially, very unlikely, have known who the Knight of the Laughing Tree was (Lyanna), and pushed Rhaegar in the right direction.

I guess that would mean Varys could know about R+L=J, so yea probably wasn't there, at least not in the capacity I first thought.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Tytos was a man who loved to please others, and would have been easy to influence. Lord Walder seems to have taken advantage of this, marrying off his son to a lion.

As to when Genna and Emmon were engaged:

Genna was born in either 245AC or 246AC, Emmon was born in 239AC, Genna and Emmon were betrothed in 253AC

Explanation:

Genna Lannister was 7 years old when she was betrothed to Emmon Frey, who was 14 at the time. Emmon is 60 years old in 300 AC. For Emmon, this gives the following possibilities:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

8]o This means Emmon was 14 years old in 254 AC (when he turned 14) and 255 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

8]o This means Emmon was 14 years old during 253 AC (when he turned 14) and 254 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

Emmon thus could have been 14 in three different years: 253 AC, 254 AC and 255 AC. For Genna, this creates the following options:

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 253 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 245 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 254 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 255 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 248 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

This leaves the options of being born in 245 AC, 246 AC, 247 AC and 248 AC for Genna.

During these same events, Gennas brother Tywin was 10 years old. Tywin was born in 242 AC. Being born in 242 AC leaves the following options for Tywin being 10:

· 9 turning 10 in 252 AC

· 10 turning 11 in 253 AC

This shows that the only moment when Tywin was 10 while Genna was 7 and Emmon 14, happened in 253 AC. Therefore, Genna was 7 years old in 253 AC, showing she was either 6 turning 7, placing her birth in 246 AC, or 7 turning 8, placing her birth in 245 AC.

Emmon Frey was 14 years old when Genna Lannister was 7 and Tywin Lannister was 10. This occurred in 253 AC. With Emmon being 14 years old in 253 AC, this leaves the following options:

· Being 13 turning 14 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

· Being 14 turning 15 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 238 AC

In the year 300, Emmon is 60 years old. This leaves the following options:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

The only overlapping year is 239 AC. This shows that Emmon was born in 239 AC, and that he will be turning 61 in 300 AC. It also shows that Emmon had turned 14 the year he was betrothed to Genna Lannister.

You have everything on a flow chart, don't you?

[HexMachina]

Tytos was a man who loved to please others, and would have been easy to influence. Lord Walder seems to have taken advantage of this, marrying off his son to a lion.

As to when Genna and Emmon were engaged:

Genna was born in either 245AC or 246AC, Emmon was born in 239AC, Genna and Emmon were betrothed in 253AC

Explanation:

Genna Lannister was 7 years old when she was betrothed to Emmon Frey, who was 14 at the time. Emmon is 60 years old in 300 AC. For Emmon, this gives the following possibilities:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

8]o This means Emmon was 14 years old in 254 AC (when he turned 14) and 255 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

8]o This means Emmon was 14 years old during 253 AC (when he turned 14) and 254 AC (when he was 14 turning 15)

Emmon thus could have been 14 in three different years: 253 AC, 254 AC and 255 AC. For Genna, this creates the following options:

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 253 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 253 AC, placing her birth in 245 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 254 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 254 AC, placing her birth in 246 AC

· She was 7 when Emmon was 14 in 255 AC

8]o 6 turning 7 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 248 AC

8]o 7 turning 8 in 255 AC, placing her birth in 247 AC

This leaves the options of being born in 245 AC, 246 AC, 247 AC and 248 AC for Genna.

During these same events, Gennas brother Tywin was 10 years old. Tywin was born in 242 AC. Being born in 242 AC leaves the following options for Tywin being 10:

· 9 turning 10 in 252 AC

· 10 turning 11 in 253 AC

This shows that the only moment when Tywin was 10 while Genna was 7 and Emmon 14, happened in 253 AC. Therefore, Genna was 7 years old in 253 AC, showing she was either 6 turning 7, placing her birth in 246 AC, or 7 turning 8, placing her birth in 245 AC.

Emmon Frey was 14 years old when Genna Lannister was 7 and Tywin Lannister was 10. This occurred in 253 AC. With Emmon being 14 years old in 253 AC, this leaves the following options:

· Being 13 turning 14 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

· Being 14 turning 15 in 253 AC, placing his birth in 238 AC

In the year 300, Emmon is 60 years old. This leaves the following options:

· Being 59 turning 60 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 240 AC

· Being 60 turning 61 in 300 AC, placing his birth in 239 AC

The only overlapping year is 239 AC. This shows that Emmon was born in 239 AC, and that he will be turning 61 in 300 AC. It also shows that Emmon had turned 14 the year he was betrothed to Genna Lannister.

*nerdgasm*

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[TheCrannogDweller]

You have everything on a flow chart, don't you?

She doesn't need to. She's the Wiki Empress of Time. ;)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You have everything on a flow chart, don't you?

Yes... :P Please don't judge.. :)

*nerdgasm*

:bowdown: :bowdown:

:blushing:

She doesn't need to. She's the Wiki Empress of Time. ;)

I'm actually working on incorporating all of this on the wiki..

But before I post it (and I want to try to place it all at once), I want to be absolutely certain it's all correct.

Currently, I'm still adding quotes and sources.

[Sator Arepo]

Who funds the Citadel?

[Roddy Darwin]

Who funds the Citadel?

House Hightower is known benefactor of the Citadel, so I assume a lot of their funding comes from them. I wouldn't be surprised if some other great Houses occasionally donated to them, too.

Acolytes and Novices also do things for money - Sam sees several of them selling maps, or acting as scribes for the people. Having the monopoly on such skills surely makes for easy income. I guess most book replicas come from the Citadel too.

(Also: Tenet Opera Rotas :) )

[HexMachina]

Is it likely that the village of white stone houses near the Inn of the Corssroads is built from the stones of Whitewalls? Just a little tidbit I noticed

[Rill Redthorn]

House Hightower is known benefactor of the Citadel, so I assume a lot of their funding comes from them. I wouldn't be surprised if some other great Houses occasionally donated to them, too.

Acolytes and Novices also do things for money - Sam sees several of them selling maps, or acting as scribes for the people. Having the monopoly on such skills surely makes for easy income. I guess most book replicas come from the Citadel too.

(Also: Tenet Opera Rotas :) )

Hm, this is an interesting question -- I guess I figured that in addition to providing their personal Maesters with room, board, and supplies and so on, all the Lords who have a Maester have to tithe to support the Citadel as well, probably on a yearly basis as long as they have a Maester on staff. That would make sense; the Maesters are their doctors, historians, scribes/secretaries, communications hub...you name it. The Lords had better cough up for the Citadel.