Jaime vs Ned - who was better?

[Maester_Withoutchains]

every one must think that Ned is some oaf that might trip over a sword and kill himself. he was fostered with Robert Baratheon by Jon Arryn. most of the knights in the vale have a favorable reputation as to thier quality/ also Ned must have trained hard next to Robert. if Robert is a skilled warrior do you think Robert would have grown to love and respect Ned if he was like Samwell Tarly? Ned might not be the skilled warrior like Robert but i am pretty sure with all the sparring and training with Robert he could definitely hold his own.

Ned did survive several military campaigns especially Robert Rebellion. remember he and 6 of his companions went against three of the Kingsguard. the white bull and the sword of morning and even though it was 3v7 he still survived.

all in all Jaime might beat Ned more but i do not believe that Ned loses the way peopel belive him too

[Dofs]

no! people are not giving the jaime anything becuase most to the story there is nothing to justify this greatest warrior status. he was knighted by Arthuer dayne this was because he showed courage and some skill in the military action against the kingswood brotherhood. also the KG was called out by Barrsitan Selmy at his dismissal plus

selmy rightly calls Jaimes appointment out as a corruption. Jaime also laments at these are his Brothers in the KG. at this time the KG is considered the lowest ppoint in the history of the organization

You are mixing reputation with skill here. What bothers Barristan about Jaime is that according to him he is a knight without honor, not his ability as a warrior.

[iliasb]

But Ned survived TOJ. He must of had some skill.

Ned also said that if not for Howland Reed, he would be dead.

[Dofs]

every one must think that Ned is some oaf that might trip over a sword and kill himself. he was fostered with Robert Baratheon by Jon Arryn. most of the knights in the vale have a favorable reputation as to thier quality/ also Ned must have trained hard next to Robert. if Robert is a skilled warrior do you think Robert would have grown to love and respect Ned if he was like Samwell Tarly? Ned might not be the skilled warrior like Robert but i am pretty sure with all the sparring and training with Robert he could definitely hold his own.

Ned did survive several military campaigns especially Robert Rebellion. remember he and 6 of his companions went against three of the Kingsguard. the white bull and the sword of morning and even though it was 3v7 he still survived.

all in all Jaime might beat Ned more but i do not believe that Ned loses the way peopel belive him too

Ned was trashed by Yohn Royce that is hardly one of the better swordsmen in Westeros.

[Alester Florent]

Selmy protests Jaime's appointment to Lord Commander because Jaime betrayed his oath, not because he isn't a capable swordsman. Robert's Kingsguard is considered weak because of people like Boros Blount - recall that Jaime and Barristan were part of Aerys's Kingsguard, which was considered very strong.

We see relatively little of Jaime fighting, but nothing to suggest he's in any way overrated. He goes through Robb's bodyguard like a freight train through a meringue and is only stopped when his sword gets stuck in one of them. He fights Brienne pretty much to a standstill with his hands tied together; she acknowledges that if he'd had his hands free she wouldn't have stood a chance. He's also pretty much the Roger Federer of jousting, maybe just past his peak compared to a rising star like Loras Tyrell, but still the man everyone most wants to unhorse.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

He was knighted by Ser Arthur Dayne for holding his own against the Smiling Knight, a warrior who went toe to toe with the Sword of the Morning.

Selmy also says in the ADWD chapter that Jaime was the best natural swordsman he had ever seen.

it is true. but Jaimes encounter with the smiling knight isnt a long drawn out battle. so we cant know if was the smiling knight was toying with him or not. the Smiling knight was more interested in coming ot blows with Ser Arthur to gain the sword of morning

Selmy is making a comparision of the young recruits progress to that of Jaime. this recruit has had no training which is more of a complement to his recruit than of Jaime IMO

[Maester_Withoutchains]

Selmy protests Jaime's appointment to Lord Commander because Jaime betrayed his oath, not because he isn't a capable swordsman. Robert's Kingsguard is considered weak because of people like Boros Blount - recall that Jaime and Barristan were part of Aerys's Kingsguard, which was considered very strong.

We see relatively little of Jaime fighting, but nothing to suggest he's in any way overrated. He goes through Robb's bodyguard like a freight train through a meringue and is only stopped when his sword gets stuck in one of them. He fights Brienne pretty much to a standstill with his hands tied together; she acknowledges that if he'd had his hands free she wouldn't have stood a chance. He's also pretty much the Roger Federer of jousting, maybe just past his peak compared to a rising star like Loras Tyrell, but still the man everyone most wants to unhorse.

you do recall how Jaime got into the Kings guard correct?

[Lee-Sensei]

every one must think that Ned is some oaf that might trip over a sword and kill himself. he was fostered with Robert Baratheon by Jon Arryn. most of the knights in the vale have a favorable reputation as to thier quality/ also Ned must have trained hard next to Robert. if Robert is a skilled warrior do you think Robert would have grown to love and respect Ned if he was like Samwell Tarly? Ned might not be the skilled warrior like Robert but i am pretty sure with all the sparring and training with Robert he could definitely hold his own.

Ned did survive several military campaigns especially Robert Rebellion. remember he and 6 of his companions went against three of the Kingsguard. the white bull and the sword of morning and even though it was 3v7 he still survived.

all in all Jaime might beat Ned more but i do not believe that Ned loses the way peopel belive him too

1) The Knights of the Vale have ever said anything about Ned's skills as a warrior and when faced with Bronze Yohn Royce he was defeated even though he was helped by Rodrik Cassel. Bronze Yohn Royce is a great warrior, but he's still not up to the level of legends like Robert Baratheon and Jaime Lannister.

2) Nothing says that he sparred with Robert Baratheon and I doubt that Robert went all out if they did.

3) Many people survived military campaigns and I suspect that he had an honor guard of skilled warriors like Robb did.

4) Howland Reed saved him.

[Alester Florent]

you do recall how Jaime got into the Kings guard correct?

Yes... I don't recall Barristan making any complaint about that. Whatever Aerys's immediate motives for appointing Jaime, there was never any suggestion he wasn't (physically) up to the job, if a bit young.

Re: Ned, I don't think he was a bad swordsman, per se, and I would hope nobody's saying that. But he's nowhere near top tier, either.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

You are mixing reputation with skill here. What bothers Barristan about Jaime is that according to him he is a knight without honor, not his ability as a warrior.

my point is that most of the Kingsguard under Robert is not the best at all. they are not the best warriors.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

my point is that most of the Kingsguard under Robert is not the best at all. they are not the best warriors.

That KG had Barristan and Jaime in it. Even Mandon Moore was said to be a dangerous fighter.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

1) The Knights of the Vale have ever said anything about Ned's skills as a warrior and when faced with Bronze Yohn Royce he was defeated even though he was helped by Rodrik Cassel. Bronze Yohn Royce is a great warrior, but he's still not up to the level of legends like Robert Baratheon and Jaime Lannister.

2) Nothing says that he sparred with Robert Baratheon and I doubt that Robert went all out if they did.

3) Many people survived military campaigns and I suspect that he had an honor guard of skilled warriors like Robb did.

4) Howland Reed saved him.

1) nothing is said either way my point is that if he were fostered there it stands to reason he would get some very descent training.

@2)nothing says he didnt either.

3) just like Jaime rallied his retinue to attack robbs. have you read or seen any documentaries that informed on medieval warfare. Nobles were in the thick of the fighting. you dont go unscathed

4) my point probably lost is that 3 KG members, which had 2 of the best warriors in the KG, fought against ned's 7. even if howland reed saved him he still had enough skill to survive. the KG went against long odds (7-3) but they were the best warriors in the kingdom and were appointed by merit not by nepotism.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

That KG had Barristan and Jaime in it. Even Mandon Moore was said to be a dangerous fighter.

are you comparing Robert KG to Aerys KG ? take out Jaime and Barristan. then tell me which was stronger

also do people know how and why Jaime got into the KG?

[Lee-Sensei]

1) nothing is said either way my point is that if he were fostered there it stands to reason he would get some very descent training.

@2)nothing says he didnt either.

3) just like Jaime rallied his retinue to attack robbs. have you read or seen any documentaries that informed on medieval warfare. Nobles werein the thick of the fighting. you dont go unscathed

4) my point probably lost is that 3 KG members which had 2 of the best warriors in the KG fought. even if howland reed saved him he stioll had enough skill to survive. the KG when against long odds but they were the best in the kingdom.

1) As would anyone able bodied male in a Noble House. That include the bodyguards Jaime was cutting through.

2) The burden of proof is on you.

3) And there's a decent chance that he had an honor guard while Jaime rushed in on his own. Simply put, Jaime is a legend and Ned isn't.

4) GRRM himself has said that Ned was an average fighter.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

Yes... I don't recall Barristan making any complaint about that. Whatever Aerys's immediate motives for appointing Jaime, there was never any suggestion he wasn't (physically) up to the job, if a bit young.

Re: Ned, I don't think he was a bad swordsman, per se, and I would hope nobody's saying that. But he's nowhere near top tier, either.

Barristan was not the Lord commander. Gerald Hightower the white bull was.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

are you comparing Robert KG to Aerys KG ? take out Jaime and Barristan. then tell me which was stronger

also do people know how and why Jaime got into the KG?

My point is that just because the KG was stated to be at its lowest point doesn't mean it didn't have great fighters. Barristan is widely recognized as one of the greatest knights if all time. I've already discussed Jaime. There's Mandon Moore, who along with Balon Swann, cut down several men at the Blackwater, and one hand Jaime was relieved that he died there becuase he knew he knew he was a dangerous man

It's considered the lowest post in KG history becuase it's filled with average fighters like Trant and Preston and becuase it lacks honor. Though Aerys guard wasn't that much more honorable imo.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

1) As would anyone able bodied male in a Noble House. That include the bodyguards Jaime was cutting through.

2) The burden of proof is on you.

3) And there's a decent chance that he had an honor guard while Jaime rushed in on his own. Simply put, Jaime is a legend and Ned isn't.

4) GRRM himself has said that Ned was an average fighter.

the burden of proof is not on me. i have listed some point to the medieval warfare which you research for yourself . to take it further with you there is no evidence that Jaime killed great warriors on his way to Robb. he killed 2-3 of Robbs bannerman sons. skill not defined.

GRRM also said the Jaime was equal to Aragon too right.

Jaime is a legend as a Kingslayer. no one has ever compared him to the Dragonknight or Barristan the bold. (Ned was never compared to them either)

Ned may not be superior. my whole point is that he isnt a warrior that see a sword that wouldrun head long into it.

[Lee-Sensei]

the burden of proof is not on me.

GRRM also said the Jaime was equal to Aragon too right.

Jaime is a legend as a Kingslayer. no one has ever compared hiim to the Dragonknight or Barristan the bold.

Ned may not be superior. my whole point is that he isnt a warrior that see a sword tha trun head long into it.

1) Yes it is. You made the claim.

2) Did he?

3) Jaime is a legendary warrior and considered among the greatest warriors of all time.

4) He's still likely to be cut through like Robb's honor guard.

[Greywolf2375]

But when poor Ned was alive I think he was stronger but not better skilled at arms.

No, he wasn't even stronger. It's generally forgotten how large Jaime is - he lists off the people he assumes are stronger than he - Great Jon, Strongboar...maybe Brienne.

Before he was maimed, Jaime would have wiped Ned out 19 times out of 20. Ned has the Any Given Sunday chance, but Jaime is that much better. After he was maimed...well, he would have still won because Ned was already dead.

[Maester_Withoutchains]

My point is that just because the KG was stated to be at its lowest point doesn't mean it didn't have great fighters. Barristan is widely recognized as one of the greatest knights if all time. I've already discussed Jaime. There's Mandon Moore, who along with Balon Swann, cut down several men at the Blackwater, and one hand Jaime was relieved that he died there becuase he knew he knew he was a dangerous man

It's considered the lowest post in KG history becuase it's filled with average fighters like Trant and Preston and becuase it lacks honor. Though Aerys guard wasn't that much more honorable imo.

sorry i never discussed honor. i was comparing their skills as warriors. Jaime stated to his brother that Ser Arhtur could beat them hold ing his sword in one hand and pissing with the other.