LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 One of the worst crimes in the series is the breaking of guest right. We know this from both a superstitious perspective and a law and societal customs perspective. I’ve seen the RW defended before by people writing off the law as pure superstition, and I’ve seen the opposite. Though I take the stance that there are no gods of any kind in this series, I judge character motivations based on the characters having these beliefs. Since Catelyn towards the end seems to have slow interest in the Old Gods, this leads me to a conclusion. Lady Stoneheart is acting a very godly manner. Let’s take a look at the condemnation of guest right by Old Nan’s own words. “It was not for murder that the gods cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.” Fast forward to the Red Wedding. Guest right is broken. Now the particulars of guest right are often up for debate, but I think its fair to say that once the Freys broke it, no longer is it expected of the other party. Catelyn taking Jinglebell as a hostage was a last-ditch effort to save her son. But she wasn’t able to. I’ve seen people absolutely disgusted with Catelyn killing Jinglebell in grief, but this was a godly act. She killed him in retaliation. No one should fault her for this. Fast forward more to the aftermath of the Red Wedding. As Lady Stoneheart. Catelyn now leads (and has improved IMO) the Brotherhood Without Banners. My Lady is killing anyone who has a vague connection to the RW, Freys, Boltons, Lannisters. Many bodies have been hanged in the trees and are feeding the crows. Lady Stoneheart’s vengeance has the seal of approval by the gods. My Lady is getting her rightful vengeance on those that have undoubtedly wrong her and committed a crime far worse than she. Hang them all, Stoneheart. Hang them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I figure since she was dead for so long before getting the gift, she doesn't exactly count as human anymore and can't be held to human standards, which includes the right to revenge. Still, I haven't heard many people complain about her form of justice. If you want to say she's an instrument of the gods to exact their punishments upon the Freys, well that works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Still, I haven't heard many people complain about her form of justice. Really? I encounter it daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 So LS, just out of curiosity, what is Rhllor supposed to be then? If not an entity, what exactly is its driving force? Just fire, or something more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 A force of magic that manifests as fire, just as other forms of magic in the world manifest in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Atreides Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 That's a new one for me people being pissed at her for killing Jinglebell; that was in my book retaliation. I do agree with Lady Blizzardborn that by the time she was revived there wasn't much human about her anymore but hey it works for me her as an instrument against the Freys, hopefully Walder gets his punishment as well and doesn't get to die in his sleep now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Her neck-shake brings all the Freys to the yard*. * (grave-) yard She's like the universe's rebuttal. Nice girls don't always finish last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well considering what we know of the 'Old Gods' it makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Yes, she is Nemesis. The curse of the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 She is a vessel of Vengeance. Vengeance which needs to be served to restore Justice. I don't care what people say, she has every right to go 'hang them all' crazy. Honestly, people believe Robb got what he deserved for breaking his oath but turn around and say LS is taking things too far (no sense of justice) because she wants Jaime dead and has every right to, may I add. She deserves her Vengeance more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 ... People really get pissed about her killing Jinglebell lol? I mean I get that it wasn't his fault or anything and he's a bit slow, but come on, why does that give someone special treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 She picks off the weak and defenseless. I'd like to see her pick up a sword and fight someone mano-a-mano. Totally ruined a badass brotherhood. It's a shame Thoros couldn't stop his R'hllor-bro from giving his life to this crazy emo zombie. Beric was justice. Stoneheart is a pawn of the Great Other. Hopefully she'll burn in R'hllor's righteous flames sometime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 She picks off the weak and defenseless. I'd like to see her pick up a sword and fight someone mano-a-mano. Totally ruined a badass brotherhood. It's a shame Thoros couldn't stop his R'hllor-bro from giving his life to this crazy emo zombie. Beric was justice. Stoneheart is a pawn of the Great Other. Hopefully she'll burn in R'hllor's righteous flames sometime soon. 1. That's part of vengeance. She's getting who she can. 2. There's nothing wrong with being a commander rather than a fighter. 3. Beric tried to put Sandor on trial for the crimes of his brother, then let him go even after admitting to killing Mycah in cold bold because his god told him to. Beric was not justice. 4. R'hllor and the Great Other do not exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 1. That's part of vengeance. She's getting who she can. 2. There's nothing wrong with being a commander rather than a fighter. 3. Beric tried to put Sandor on trial for the crimes of his brother, then let him go even after admitting to killing Mycah in cold bold because his god told him to. Beric was not justice. 4. R'hllor and the Great Other do not exist 1. Vengeance is lame and cowardly. 2. Beric did both, and she doesn't command all that well either. A monkey could follow her orders. 3. Tried, changed his mind, Sandor serves no gods, and Sandor demanded trial by combat - Beric obliged, Sandor won, and Beric kept his promise. Justice at its finest. 4. They do indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 1. Vengeance is lame and cowardly. 2. Beric did both, and she doesn't command all that well either. A monkey could follow her orders. 3. Tried, changed his mind, Sandor serves no gods, and Sandor demanded trial by combat - Beric obliged, Sandor won, and Beric kept his promise. Justice at its finest. 4. They do indeed. 1. "Alls fair in love and war" - Oberyn2cool4Westeros. 2. So? Mariya Martell held off the Targaryen invasion as an old blind woman. There's more to being a leader than just being a fighter. Apparently the monkeys following her orders are capable of stringing up many bodies around the Inn at the Crossroads. 3. That's justice at it's worst and you're deluded if you think otherwise 4. They do not. Only fanatics who scare people with fire magic exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 She picks off the weak and defenseless. I'd like to see her pick up a sword and fight someone mano-a-mano. Totally ruined a badass brotherhood. It's a shame Thoros couldn't stop his R'hllor-bro from giving his life to this crazy emo zombie. Beric was justice. Stoneheart is a pawn of the Great Other. Hopefully she'll burn in R'hllor's righteous flames sometime soon. lol, like they picked off the RW guests. Brienne did look guilty and Cat made the mistake of trusting an oath once (and that brought her "Jaime Lannister sends his regards") she isn't so trustworthy now, no wonder. All the Freys and those who have wronged her family had it coming. Jingglebells- Yes, he was innocent and disabled but at this point her last son has been killed before her very eyes and her family completely defeated. She wagered a deal with Walder and he didn't take it so he has some blame. I'm betting she just wanted to hurt them like they had hurt her...and sadly it didn't work...but she has her chance now. Also, I find it ironic that you say 'Vengeance is cowardly and lame' yet have Oberyn as your avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Also, I find it ironic that you say 'Vengeance is cowardly and lame' yet have Oberyn as your avatar. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 1. "Alls fair in love and war" - Oberyn2cool4Westeros. 2. So? Mariya Martell held off the Targaryen invasion as an old blind woman. There's more to being a leader than just being a fighter. Apparently the monkeys following her orders are capable of stringing up many bodies around the Inn at the Crossroads. 3. That's justice at it's worst and you're deluded if you think otherwise 4. They do not. Only fanatics who scare people with fire magic exist. 1. She's not part of a war. She's a terrorist. 2. Her's were complex, Stoneheart's commands are ripped straight from Gregor Clegane's guide, minus the rape. 3. Life ain't fair, good men gotta do the best they can to make it so. Beric did just that. A man who doesn't keep his word is no man at all. Beric was a manly man. 4. When the war for the dawn comes around, it'll be proof enough. @DarkHorse; Oberyn wanted justice. That's why he waited for the perfect, legal, and just moment to take action. He didn't sneak around KL hanging anyone who smelled like a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Except for the fact that he probably poisoned Tywin... ;3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Except for the fact that he probably poisoned Tywin... ;3 Now you can't prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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