What did Robert spend so much gold on?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

IICR, in Feast, Jaime sees how the Cells have 12 men for six prisoners.

IIRC, didn't Jaime also discover that while there were 12 men supposedly at work on what turned out to be 6 prisoners for a time......that at least 16 men were being paid for the job?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

IIRC, didn't Jaime also discover that while there were 12 men supposedly at work on what turned out to be 6 prisoners for a time......that at least 16 men were being paid for the job?

That. Ghost employees. That's like the oldest way to detour money.

[daggerseiuri]

LF was definitely investing. I was reading a Tyrion POV in GOT or COK and as I recall he detailed Petyr's rise to power. It started with Lysa begging Jon Arryn to make him some like imports steward, and then his talent for investment and making money just snowballed until he was eventually on the small council. It really seems as though the treasury was half-filled with LF's personal wealth (considering the way he finds the crown money involves investing in myrish lace, textiles, silks, etc that Tyrion says that LF owns). So like... is he just taking that as a loss? He apparently owned the mint (let me know if I read wrong) so maybe he was just printing money? But I guess that would be impossible with gold currency. Huh.

[Jaak]

Yea its gotta be Littlefinger shuffling money around where he's not suppose to because wine and women (did he really pay for whores? he is the king), tourneys, one lil Greyjoy rebellion and just overall fun couldn't have bankrupted the crown that much esp since Aerys left it overflowing + I'm sure the crown had revenue coming in.

Back in the times of Aerys.

Robert was NOT in debt thanks to Petyr, because Petyr´s predecessor as Master of Coin was "embattled".

We also hear that Crown incomes under Petyr were 10 times what they had been under Petyr´s embattled predecessor. We also hear that they were bigger than ever before - but not that they were 10 times bigger than ever before.

My guess?

Robert went in debt because he was giving away Crown income streams - giving tax breaks and Crown demesne land for political support.

And did all of it before Petyr became Master of Coin, while continuing to spend as if he still had Aerys´ income... so spending Aerys´ treasury and borrowing.

Petyr went on to replace the incomes Robert had thrown away with new ones... but not quite enough to earn as much as Robert spent.

[Haus of Targaryen]

Back in the times of Aerys.

Robert was NOT in debt thanks to Petyr, because Petyr´s predecessor as Master of Coin was "embattled".

We also hear that Crown incomes under Petyr were 10 times what they had been under Petyr´s embattled predecessor. We also hear that they were bigger than ever before - but not that they were 10 times bigger than ever before.

My guess?

Robert went in debt because he was giving away Crown income streams - giving tax breaks and Crown demesne land for political support.

And did all of it before Petyr became Master of Coin, while continuing to spend as if he still had Aerys´ income... so spending Aerys´ treasury and borrowing.

Petyr went on to replace the incomes Robert had thrown away with new ones... but not quite enough to earn as much as Robert spent.

Its definitely not out of the realm of possibility but I feel like if Robert did those things whether it was for political support or what, I feel someone might've mentioned it as to a reason there's so much debt. I could be wrong though- George should really explore that

[Batbob45]

Women and Feast

[khalhotpie]

Back in the times of Aerys.

Robert was NOT in debt thanks to Petyr, because Petyr´s predecessor as Master of Coin was "embattled".

We also hear that Crown incomes under Petyr were 10 times what they had been under Petyr´s embattled predecessor. We also hear that they were bigger than ever before - but not that they were 10 times bigger than ever before.

My guess?

Robert went in debt because he was giving away Crown income streams - giving tax breaks and Crown demesne land for political support.

And did all of it before Petyr became Master of Coin, while continuing to spend as if he still had Aerys´ income... so spending Aerys´ treasury and borrowing.

Petyr went on to replace the incomes Robert had thrown away with new ones... but not quite enough to earn as much as Robert spent.

This seems to be correct as while LF unquestionably did some skimming as would the new men he employed so would their predecessors.

Robert seemed to love to host loads of tourneys with insane cash prizes and huge feasts , based on what we know from the archer from the brotherhood who won the archery tournament but wasted the huge prize ....the finest whores in westeros cost some serious money as does ultra fine eating

If robert inherits a kingdom with a debt due to the rebellion war , loves to be adored so much he allows tax breaks and.or reductions and spends lavishly its no wonder a debt built up in no time.

[oursisthefury69]

Its gota be something more even though im not sure how it would still serve the plot, but there's no way Robert bankrupted them like that from him drinking and whoring. Its not as if every time Robert had sex he'd go into the treasury beforehand everytime, if anything he probably didn't need to pay the whores he used in KL

[Fanless Mace]

In a yet-to-be-released chapter, GRRM will detail how King Robert sunk millions into research in an ill-fated attempt to win the X Prize for the first team who could develop a more efficient raven. LF's idea, of course.

[khalhotpie]

Its gota be something more even though im not sure how it would still serve the plot, but there's no way Robert bankrupted them like that from him drinking and whoring. Its not as if every time Robert had sex he'd go into the treasury beforehand everytime, if anything he probably didn't need to pay the whores he used in KL

Hes not podrick dude hed have to pay , and based on what we know from the archer in the brotherhood those top class hoes are dammmed expensive

itl have added to the debt yes but not as much as ironborn rebellion, constant tourneys and feasts and if his 'need to be loved' meant he was reducing revenue streams or even stopping some/ giving some breaks.

[The Bittersteel]

Big tournaments cost an absolute fortune and I think some of it is definitely down to LF embezzling.

[Greywind84]

Keeping his mind off Lyanna and trying to forget how bored and miserable he was.

[Light a wight tonight]

Women and whiskey, the rest he just wasted.

I was gonna say this.

[HotManderlyPie]

I think that the perception of Robert's liberal spending are a convenient cover for LF to practice his shenanigans. If he was systematically diverting funds into his personal coffers it would serve multiple purposes that all potentially end up in his favor. (1) His influence and wealth grows (the obvious benefit), (2) since he has the crown borrowing tons of money from the Lannisters, which they are happy to do to gain influence under Robert's rule, yet he is basically stealing the Lannister's gold which has to weaken them and strengthen him, and (3) by borrowing the Iron Bank's gold and embezzling that he is doing the same thing with the IB. Its like running a business for the express purposes of running up credit and bailing when it tanks leaving the Lannisters/Tyrells holding the bag. Then when the IB comes for its pound of flesh it further leads to chaos that I'm sure he has plans for. He is sitting pretty (albeit in true LF fashion, meaning one wrong step from exposure) in the cloistered environment of the Vale.

[Ceiteach]

Well how much did he inherit, really? Who knows what the Mad King left him with. All that Wildfire didn't come cheap..

[Jaak]

Well how much did he inherit, really? Who knows what the Mad King left him with. All that Wildfire didn't come cheap..

Eddard knew. Remember, he was in charge of city for days before wounded Robert showed up for his throne. And the fact that treasury was found well stocked and Aerys had not blown it on defending his throne may have come up chatting with Jon and Hoster after Robert showed up, or after Eddard returned with Lyanna´s corpse.

Littlefinger may have skimmed, but he had no way to cause nor fake the fact that his predecessor was "embattled" and the Crown incomes were much smaller than what Littlefinger was able to make them... so probably also smaller than under Aerys.

[Lady Winter Rose]

Littlefinger may have skimmed, but he had no way to cause nor fake the fact that his predecessor was "embattled" and the Crown incomes were much smaller than what Littlefinger was able to make them... so probably also smaller than under Aerys.

I think he transform Robert gain into his losses. Don't know how to explain this... Like, he was making them believe they have 10 times bigger losses when in fact that money was going to his pocket.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well how much did he inherit, really? Who knows what the Mad King left him with. All that Wildfire didn't come cheap..

He inherited quite a lot from Aerys, apparently. The arcs were full, or something like that. Robert also confiscated money from loyalists like Darry and Connington.

[Jam On Toast]

WINE, AND MORE WINE TO WASH IT DOWN

[Michael Herman]

If one of the following things is not true I'll cut off my left nut

1. Littlefinger is actually pretty incompetent as an accountant/chancellor, and is just good at making random false records that are so complex that they confuse anyone else that happens to look at them.

2. He's been stealing money (how could he afford to pay such large dowries and "buy" numerous lesser lords unless he has taken money he wasn't entitled to?).

Certainly Robert spent a lot, but I very much doubt he could have put the crown 6 million in debt. Think about it, the tourney of the Hand seems to be unusually large for a tourney in King's landing (certainly the city watch has trouble dealing with it, if every tourney was this bad the city would be in constant anarchy), so the total cost of the average tourney must be well under the 90,000 or so that the TotH cost.

Assume 50,000, Joffrey had one on his 12th nameday, so presumably the namedays of his "children" were often accompanied by tourney's though it seems doubtful that this happened every year. At most we are looking at 3 major tournaments per annum paid for by the crown. If all that debt is genuine, then you'd expect the majority of it to be from tourney's, which we know consume vas amounts of money, but if my figures are correct (they may be way off, but we have to make assumptions) then only about 1/3 of the debt is from tourneys.

A silver is said to be an outrageously high price for an average whore, but Robert is king, and presumably is very generous, so let's say he pays each whore a gold dragon. He would have to go through nearly 400 whores a day to make up another third of the total debt. This number is far more grounded, and shows, once more, that even Robert couldn't put westeros that badly in debt in a mere 14 years (unless he hired the golden company and a dozen other free companies to take back the Summer Isles for Jalabhar Xho without anyone noticing).