Ocelot Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 When Ned becomes Hand he is shocked to find that the Iron Throne is 6 million dragons in debt, especially when the Treasury was full when Robert became king. We know that Robert likes to throw tourneys, but that doesn't seem to account for such massive expenditures, especially since the Iron Throne fought only one fairly limited war (Greyjoy Rebellion) which Robert won. What else was Robert spending so much gold on? Can't all be wine and whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 He mortgaged his castle through Littlefinger, who bundled it with high-interest low-yield securities which were then sold to Yi Ti and rebundled and sold back to Robert as Arbor Gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0bR Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 LF doin' work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 The rest in Lyannna's memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, when you see it as "whores and wine" doesn't look that much. But we're talking of 16 years of "whores and wine", and tourneys, travels, and who knows what else. Also, Littlefinger. He has been "detouring" some money, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, when you see it as "whores and wine" doesn't look that much. But we're talking of 16 years of "whores and wine", and tourneys, travels, and who knows what else. Also, Littlefinger. He has been "detouring" some money, I think. I highly suspect it was more so Littlefinger's detours than Robert's whoring and wine. LF used that, and Robert's mindset, to financially screw the Kingdom. It's the only screwing that LF seemed interested in......well, til seeing Cat again and meeting Sansa, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Sixteen years of partying and gift-giving, combined with Littlefinger's embezzlement. Dealing with Balon Greyjoy's Rebellion would have been pretty expensive too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Dead Just Broken Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Littlefinger stole a lot of it as far as I can tell. I also don't think the Westerosi economy really boomed after the rebellion. People seem to have eaten through almost all of the harvests of the long summer before the War of the Five Kings even started. The North is short when Bran is trying to be Lord of Winterfell. I think he also may have knighted too many people. There are a lot of hedge knights running around and they seem to have no value to the economy. I wonder if there aren't too few farmers and too many nobles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoboe Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You're right - 15 years of relative peace, a long summer.....it should have been a prosperous time where Roberts vices such as women, wine and holding a tourney every time he celebrated a fart shold NOT have outstripped what the Kingdom would be raking in from taxes, duties, trade etc. So, unless the Kingdom actually is broke and GRRM didn't feel it necessary to go into too much detail (I mean, how many sci-fi/fantasy books get critiqued on the economy?), or it's all part of the master plot. My personal belief is that because there is quite a bit of attention given to the treasury situation in the books, AND Robert's spending doesn't seem to account for such big losses (don't forget that not only has the Kingdoms treasury been reduced to nothing, it has borrowed heavily from the Lannisters, the Iron Bank and elsewhere), AND the fact that Littlefinger was the Master of Coin, AND how Tyrion couldn't make sense of the ledger books, that LF was skimming substantial amounts of money away and hiding it through various investments. I don't think it was for personal gains in wealth, but a higher ambition involving 'saving' a bankrupt kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Stuff. I think it'd be too much to detail all of Robert's debts. We know he spent a lot on wine, tourneys and lavish gifts. He was very generous to friends. Based on that remark, we can assume he basically gave away gold and gifts to those that asked. These things add up over 10+ years of ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccupyHarrenhal Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 In addition to Littlefinger taking money and the Rebellion, there were seven kingdoms to rebuildPlus, it's not just Robert's drinking and whoring, it's too freely giving away land, gold, and titles. And Robert liked to give huge sums at tourneys. The Tourney of the Hand was 40,000 gold for the winner of the joust, 20,000 for the runner-up, 20,000 to the winner of the melee and 10,000 for the best archer. Imagine a couple of those being held a year. And combine that with the Crown's daily expenses (the security and upkeep of the Red Keep, King's Landing, and the Crownlands) which add up if no one is caring about finding revenue sources. If Littlefinger's goal was to put the Iron Throne in debt (which it may well have been, he wanted to create and exploit chaos as well as enrich himself), all he really needed to do is silently make sure that it was importing a little more than it's exporting and spending a little more than it's collecting in taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osha13 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Probably a few different things: (1) Unknowingly making Littlefinger rich; (2) Tracking the Targaryen Children across the sea in Essos; (3) Excessive Feasting and Drinking; and (4) Hosting a lot of tournaments. Probably other stuff as well. He was king of westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 As someone said here some time ago, Robert Baratheon is a keynesian genious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disputatious Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Sixteen years of partying and gift-giving, combined with Littlefinger's embezzlement. Dealing with Balon Greyjoy's Rebellion would have been pretty expensive too.Also rebuilding the royal fleet. On the money spent on tourneys, don't forget the prize money: over one hundred thousand dragons for the winners of the Hands Tourney, for example. Oops: ninja'd by Occupy Harrenhall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Targaryen II Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 whores, liquor tournaments and seems to exceed to in giving alot of money to the winners. I mean if the Tourney of the Hand is any indication the prize money of the others must be immense as well. Oh and LF embezzling probably didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Women and whiskey, the rest he just wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 IICR, in Feast, Jaime sees how the Cells have 12 men for six prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 He bought a scheme from a guy called Ponzi. Littlefinger was the intermediary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BericDondarrion Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 It's simple. LF caused it and defrauded millions worth of gold. How else is a low born nobody like Baelish who owns about 2 acres of land with 0 retainers sworn to him able to bribe and buy so many people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haus of Targaryen Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Yea its gotta be Littlefinger shuffling money around where he's not suppose to because wine and women (did he really pay for whores? he is the king), tourneys, one lil Greyjoy rebellion and just overall fun couldn't have bankrupted the crown that much esp since Aerys left it overflowing + I'm sure the crown had revenue coming in. Not only do they owe the Iron Bank, they owe the Lannisters and the High Septon's office (but no longer thanks to our beloved Cersei). Was there no one paying attention? Clearly not. I'm surprised at Jon Arryn but I guess he was too busy worried about who/what was going in/coming out of Cersei to be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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