US Politics: we are all liberals, we are all conservatives

[TrackerNeil]

Oh, they're already banging the impeachment drum on Fox. Then again, one could argue they've been banging that drum more or less since he originally committed the twin crimes of being Elected While Being a Democrat and Elected While Black.

Actually, I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. Back in 2011 I made a private bet with myself that the Republican House would impeach Obama within the next three years. Oh well.

[Fez]

An even exchange with the Germans, or one enlistee for 5 guys POTUS was afraid to notify Congress about as anything other than a fait acccompli. Would that be the case the if the 5 guys in questions were all just goat herders? Saying 'We traded with the Nazis too' is a pathetically thin rationalization.

Don't be an ass, dude. I know you're not used to it, but I'm with the conservatives on this one. My point is that people shouldn't make the WWII comparison, because the only time we did so it was an even trade and it all low-level folks; not five high-level guys for one soldier.

Moving on, the Ohio GOP is making a play for being the wing-nuttiest of all (the competition is fierce, I know), with a bill that would ban insurance plans from covering IUDs.

As written, the bill would prevent insurance plans for all Ohioans from covering abortions. Public health plans, such as Medicaid and those for public employees, would also be barred from covering the birth control pill and contraceptives that prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg, including IUDs.

State Rep. John Becker, the bill's sponsor, says it wasn't his intent to prevent coverage for birth control pills, and the bill could be amended to exempt the pill. But Becker said he supports an IUD ban because preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg is comparable to an abortion.

"This is just a personal view. I'm not a medical doctor," Becker said.

Fucking assholes.

[Paladin of Ice]

Moving on, the Ohio GOP is making a play for being the wing-nuttiest of all (the competition is fierce, I know), with a bill that would ban insurance plans from covering IUDs.

Fucking assholes.

You beat me to posting that one. I love how the small government, pro free market guys are interfering in the market being able to sell someone necessary products that fit their needs. Small government! The invisible hand! Fuck yeah!

[awesome possum]

I think, like many of the assholish anti-Anyone-that-doesn't-vote-for-us bills they've passed, if passed this will eventually be struck down.

[sologdin]

if preventing a blastocyst from planting its ass in the womb is like an abortion, aren't the pill, coitus interruptus, and abstinence also like an abortion?

[NoneofYourBiz]

Indeed. Not seeing much if any good faith here. Also nice to see this guy called a "shitbag" in the same post where there is an acknowledgement of mental illness possibly playing a role. Pure class that.

Oh and as for more details, the poster has been shown to flat out ignore them when convenient(holding to a suspiciously yell radio sound bite narrative). When cornered they fall back on vague appeals to insider knowledge. Not impressed.

1. Yes I think Bergdahl is a dirtbag. My reference to mental illness is not at the point that he deserted, but at the point he is at now after spending 5 years with the Haqqanis. I have my doubts that he will ever be mentally fit to testify at court martial, not that he was mentally unfit when he walked off.

2. What are you talking about? Do you understand that not giving you an answer that you agree with is not ignoring it? You posted a bunch of personal feelings that Bethea had about the case like it was some big gotcha. You understand the difference between him laying out the facts of the Bergdahl case (in which I saw nothing I disagreed with) and his personal feelings about Bergdahl and how he chose to forgive him? I said I find it admirable and there is nothing to agree or disagree with when it comes to his personal feelings and how he chose to make his peace with the situation.

The rest is just nonsense. I don't even know what this yell radio soundbite narrative is that you are talking about. Second, people have lives and connections outside of this board. If Mercenary Chef talks about food and cooking, he is drawing from his own personal experience. I have a real life too, and my background includes such things as living in the Middle East, being a flight attendant at one time, and I currently work in the defense industry. Outside of that I have some direct connections to the Army and to the SF community. You can believe or not believe that I might know a thing or two about this case from my real life. I could give two fucks. If I told you how I know these things, would you believe me anyway? Probably not, and I wouldn't, for many reasons. Ever hear of OPSEC? Well its a rule that applies to giving out too much of your personal information on the internet as well. It's not a good idea and certainly not necessary to prove a point to some random in a forum.

You used to have a few good posters on both sides of the political fence in your politics threads. Most of them have gone away and it's not hard to see why. The dogpile/circle jerk club acts like a bunch of 12 year olds and it's tiresome.

Seems to me like it is hard for some of you to listen to any sort of opinion outside your sheltered little bubble.

[The Notorious]

Listen DebL66,

It's tiresome to see you keep dodging the question as to how the Obama should just continue to wait for a non-risky military opportunity to extract the guy when you yourself has stated that such opportunity "ultimately did not occur".

Why you keep dodging and running away DebL66?

[NoneofYourBiz]

Listen DebL66,

It's tiresome to see you keep dodging the question as to how the Obama should just continue to wait for a non-risky military opportunity to extract the guy when you yourself has stated that such opportunity "ultimately did not occur".

Why you keep dodging and running away DebL66?

Jesus, not this again. Has it occurred to you that I have about 10 posters coming at me for every one I post, and a life outside of this forum and maybe I just haven't gotten to it yet? Oooh yes, I am fleeing from your big scary question. Oh, the horror of it all.

I am pretty sure I answered it already, several times, but here goes again. I disagree with the 5:1 prisoner swap. It seems crazy lopsided to me, and unnecessary, to trade 5 big Taliban guys for one PFC deserter. I do think that we had a responsibility to get Bergdahl, despite the fact that he deserted and despite the fact that he was where he was actively looking to be. I do not think that we should have to deploy high risk operations to do so, and apparently, neither did SOF. As I said, this guy has been on their radar for years, they were watching his movements looking for an opportunity to grab him. Most of the opportunities to do so were deemed too risky and not worth risking the loss of highly trained SF for what is essentially a low value target. I am sure that term will outrage some of you but that is how they saw it and I would agree with their assessment. This sort of scenario would be the same even with some high value targets, but certainly they are not going to send those guys into a high risk situation to get a deserter.

So I think the military did what it had an obligation to do....it watched for a moment that ultimately never came. I don't know if what the govt is reporting, that Bergdahls health necessitated this immediate exchange is true. Maybe it is, maybe that is why they determined they had to move immediately, however the 5:1 is still a terrible deal and they could have gotten him for much less. The guy is really not of any use to the Haqqanis any more.

Honestly, to me this smells of kabuki theatre and there have been reports recently that the WH is somewhat taken aback that there isn't huge celebration of this guy's capture.

[The Notorious]

I disagree with the 5:1 prisoner swap. It seems crazy lopsided to me, and unnecessary, to trade 5 big Taliban guys for one PFC deserter.

Wait, then how do you response to reports that the 5 Taliban guys would have been released at a later date anyway. With this swap, it seems like the US come out ahead right?

[TerraPrime]

Honestly, to me this smells of kabuki theatre and there have been reports recently that the WH is somewhat taken aback that there isn't huge celebration of this guy's capture.

You meant release, not capture, right?

[DanteGabriel]

I am pretty sure I answered it already, several times, but here goes again. I disagree with the 5:1 prisoner swap. It seems crazy lopsided to me, and unnecessary, to trade 5 big Taliban guys for one PFC deserter.

I take it you are unconvinced by the theories put forth by various commenters, which I've mentioned and linked to numerous times, that freeing these guys may actually help settle things down in Afghanistan as the administration moves from constant war with the Taliban to detente?

Honestly, to me this smells of kabuki theatre and there have been reports recently that the WH is somewhat taken aback that there isn't huge celebration of this guy's capture.

Everything in Washington is kabuki theater. I've made that analogy numerous times. Congratulations for sussing that out.

Yes, it does seem that the Obama administration, including Chuck Hagel, were surprised that the move wasn't viewed more positively. Perhaps they were fooled when someone like the Senate's leading advocate for bombing the shit out of Arabs, and foremost authority on prisoner of war swaps, supported the idea four months ago. Or maybe they just thought that the reflexively "America! Fuck yeah!" crowd that always preaches "Support the Troops!" and makes up the core of the Republican Party would applaud the return of the last POW in Afghanistan. Wouldn't be the first time Obama underestimated the viciousness, inconsistency of principle, and nihilism of the right wing.

[NoneofYourBiz]

White House now accusing soldiers who speak out about Bergdahl of swift-boating him:

These guys anticipated that this would happen. Before approaching the media, they all discussed making sure they had their ducks in a row because they knew the administration would seek to discredit them. Even so, for some it is too risky. For so many of them to come forward, and to seek out the media to tell their story, is pretty out of the ordinary.

[NoneofYourBiz]

You meant release, not capture, right?

Yes, a mistake.

[The Notorious]

These guys anticipated that this would happen. Before approaching the media, they all discussed making sure they had their ducks in a row because they knew the administration would seek to discredit them. Even so, for some it is too risky. For so many of them to come forward, and to seek out the media to tell their story, is pretty out of the ordinary.

When you have the chance DebL66, could you also response to stories about how unprofessional these guys' conducts were and the potential murder of a civilian Afghan child by them when she was ran over?

[DanteGabriel]

These guys anticipated that this would happen. Before approaching the media, they all discussed making sure they had their ducks in a row because they knew the administration would seek to discredit them. Even so, for some it is too risky. For so many of them to come forward, and to seek out the media to tell their story, is pretty out of the ordinary.

According to the New York Times, another story I linked here, conservative media shills sought them out. Or did you miss that in between your busy life and the time you took to take shots at our 12 year old circle jerk?

Also, the Rolling Stone article from 2012 already made mention of the discipline breakdowns in Bergdahl's unit, so that's a pretty prescient smear campaign.

[NoneofYourBiz]

When you have the chance DebL66, could you also response to stories about how unprofessional these guys' conducts were and the potential murder of a civilian Afghan child by them when she was ran over?

I'll respond to you quickly before I leave the office...don't know what unprofessional conduct you are referring to, so please detail and I will respond. Also unaware of the murder of a civilian Afghan child, if it occurred it is not something I have heard about or am privy to, but I would not deny that all sorts of things happen in theatre that are terrible from both sides. Sometimes not intentionally, sometimes intentionally. The military is but a reflection of society overall, and we have both heroes and shitbags in it as in the civilian world. If we didn't, Leavenworth would be empty.

[NoneofYourBiz]

According to the New York Times, another story I linked here, conservative media shills sought them out. Or did you miss that in between your busy life and the time you took to take shots at our 12 year old circle jerk?

Also, the Rolling Stone article from 2012 already made mention of the discipline breakdowns in Bergdahl's unit, so that's a pretty prescient smear campaign.

Actually, not quite right. They sought out the media, and they created a Facebook page to discuss things as well, which was public and now is a closed group. When it was open several members of the media did approach them, mostly local outlets.

[Jon Sprunk]

5 Taliban officers who have been out of the loop for years and were probably going to be released in 7-8 months anyway, and who now have to spend a year in Qatar under govt surveillance (and CIA monitoring, too), in exchange for a living American serviceman? That's a hell of a deal.

Had a republican made this deal, conservatives around the country would be rejoicing at how much they love the troops, man. But a democrat did it? Egads, it must surely be the worst move in history. Let's start hyperventiliating until the impeachment proceedings!

How very sad.

[DanteGabriel]

I'll respond to you quickly before I leave the office...don't know what unprofessional conduct you are referring to, so please detail and I will respond. Also unaware of the murder of a civilian Afghan child, if it occurred it is not something I have heard about or am privy to, but I would not deny that all sorts of things happen in theatre that are terrible from both sides. Sometimes not intentionally, sometimes intentionally. The military is but a reflection of society overall, and we have both heroes and shitbags in it as in the civilian world. If we didn't, Leavenworth would be empty.

So to get this straight... You have insider info about what a shitbird and dirtbag Bergdahl is, before the Army investigates his leaving his unit (which you doubt will ever happen, because Obama). You also have intimate knowledge of the motivations and reliability of the two or three soldiers from his unit who have surfaced to criticize him.

But you have no knowledge of multiple published reports of the crimes committed by the unit and discipline breakdowns within the unit.

Selective attention much?

Actually, not quite right. They sought out the media, and they created a Facebook page to discuss things as well, which was public and now is a closed group. When it was open several members of the media did approach them, mostly local outlets.

Source? I provided a source for my item about the Republican strategists who coordinated these soldiers' efforts.

ETA:

And hey, let's review where right wing thought was on Bergdahl just a few short months ago, when Obama was evil for letting a POW rot in Afghanistan, none of the right wingers felt it necessary to mention Bergdahl's DIRTBAG SHITBIRD DESERTER status, and Bill O'Reilly wasn't calling Bergdahl's father a stealth Muslim traitor... before it's all scrubbed from the Internet:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/10/obama-to-leave-us-pow-to-rot-in-afghanistan-after-withdrawal/

The comments are priceless.

[The Notorious]

I'll respond to you quickly before I leave the office...don't know what unprofessional conduct you are referring to, so please detail and I will respond. Also unaware of the murder of a civilian Afghan child, if it occurred it is not something I have heard about or am privy to, but I would not deny that all sorts of things happen in theatre that are terrible from both sides. Sometimes not intentionally, sometimes intentionally. The military is but a reflection of society overall, and we have both heroes and shitbags in it as in the civilian world. If we didn't, Leavenworth would be empty.

Did you not read the Rollingstone article? Here it is:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607

There's a brief summary of the breakdown of professionalism and possible misconducts on page 3 of the article; page four mention the death of an Afghani child from being run over, a possible war crime.

It's reek of swift-boating given these accounts from these former comrades who have went on record to smear Bergdahl.