US Politics: we are all liberals, we are all conservatives

[Suttree]

Looks like it was actually a case of my statement going straight over yours since I literally asked whether TP's statement was sarcastic or not....

1. Nice selective editing.

2. You followed up with additional comments showing what I said to be true.

3. Thanks for that since we all needed clarity on what he meant. :cheers:

[Jaxom 1974]

We are actually developing some conservative regulars. I think they are wrong about nearly everything, but that is pretty cool.

It does make for entertaining and/or informative reading for the casual politics participant, such as myself.

[Commodore]

White House now accusing soldiers who speak out about Bergdahl of swift-boating him:

Phase two was the White House desperately searching for someone, anyone, from Bergdahl’s unit who’d stand up in front of the media and vouch for his character. That’s happening entirely out of public view, but rest assured, it’s happening. The fact that they’ve come up with nothing so far speaks volumes about how uniform opinion is within Bergdahl’s old squad about him and his motives. If Team O could produce just one witness willing to face the cameras and argue that Bergdahl was a good soldier who was probably taken against his will, it’d plant enough doubt in casual observers’ minds that this whole thing might be reduced to a he said/she said matter for many — even though there are at least six veterans already who’ve come forward to support the desertion theory. But they can’t find anyone to do it. It’s been a complete barrage of anti-Bergdahl witnesses on cable news since Monday morning. The State Department is so bereft of third-party support that they were forced last night to tell reporters to trust Bergdahl himself over his squad mates, as if a repatriated deserter wouldn’t have an incentive to lie about why he went missing upon his return.

So now, phase three: Start discrediting the soldiers who’ve accused him. It’ll have to be done subtly and tactfully. If they go dumpster-diving on these guys for things like substance-abuse problems or financial trouble, the nastiness of it might backfire on the White House and make their Bergdahl problem even worse. Babbling about “swift-boating” is a good way to get the ball rolling, at least among liberals who are grasping for ways to defend Obama and have come up empty thus far. “Swift-boating” implies that the vets who’ve accused Bergdahl have some political motivation in doing so; it’s of a piece with that BuzzFeed story yesterday hyperventilating about Republican Ric Grenell helping Bergdahl’s comrades get in touch with media outlets. The point is to suggest that this is some sort of dirty trick, maybe even invented whole cloth by nefarious conservatives to wound the president, rather than a bunch of guys who’ve spent five years boiling inside because their friends got killed on patrol searching for Bergdahl finally choosing to come clean. To protect a guy who allegedly served dishonorably, the White House and the left now have no choice but to go after the honorable ones.

[The onion wight]

From an Atlantic article, not sure if I linked earlier, some interesting tweets from Andrew Exum, a former Army officer who was there when Bergdahl disappeared:

(I'm just going to copy the text of the tweets rather than figure out some way to artfully paste them)

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/the-three-kinds-of-bowe-bergdahl-backlash/372002/

I am glad there's some deeper investigation of how much those deaths can actually be traced to Bergdahl's disappearance, but the larger point that soldiers have risked their lives for people who did dumb things before, is worth remembering. This Bergdahl case is getting treated as a series of unique circumstances, when in reality these things have happened before.

The guy is a deserter, I think from what I've read from very reputable sources that's unarguable. Bringing up speculation regarding his mental health at the time is pointless as it's unprovable. What we do know is that he wrote emails to his parents pissing on the army in general and the operations in Afghanistan in particular. Occam's razor he walked off his post because he didn't want to fight anymore due to his political beliefs. Instead of giving an honest account of these events administration officials have gone on public record claiming Bergdahl served with distinction and the President posed for the media with the happy parents. Time will tell whether or not Bergdahl will ever appear before a court martial but I'm thinking not. I don't see many people raising objections to trying to find him or even him being released, rather disgust for what he did and distaste at how the administration is spinning it.

[sologdin]

yeah, unlawful war means that deserters are correct.

but if there is no objection to policy, then it is all frivolous gustatory posturing. no one cares about all'y'all's childish distaste.

[The Notorious]

Listen the onion wight,

Why won't you support the troops buddy? Why do you hate America so much? WHY?!!!! :bang:

[The onion wight]

White House now accusing soldiers who speak out about Bergdahl of swift-boating him:

I wonder how they'll manage his media appearances? Will they cherry pick sympathetic journalists from the love media to throw him soft balls? Even so they'll have to ask him why he walked off base, or will they be telling him to stick to his story that he was left behind while out on patrol? Given the overwhelming response from his former comrades I really can't see much good coming from this for the admin.

[The onion wight]

yeah, unlawful war means that deserters are correct.

but if there is no objection to policy, then it is all frivolous gustatory posturing. no one cares about all'y'all's childish distaste.

That's a fair comment. If he had the guts he could stand before the public and tell them he deserted because he disagreed with the war, I'm kind of doubtful he will though.

[awesome possum]

distaste at how the administration is spinning it.

There's only been one type of spinning going on and that's been by you and your GOP comrades. Hell, even the random idiot's link doesn't provide any actual proof of anyone associated with the White House saying anything about "swift-boating" but it doesn't need to because the random idiots who eat that shit up have been eating shit for so long their taste buds no longer work properly.

You need to go The Weekly Standard link within the link to find that Chuck Todd says sources say this. You know what else he says? "there's some fighting words there" That's what it's about. Expanding the circus ring.

[TerraPrime]

Why aren't people talking about conscientious objection? If half of what Bergdahl claimed to have happened actually did happen, I'd think there's a good case to be made to conscientiously object to the actions and to his enlistment. But the court does need to sort this out.

[The Notorious]

I would speculate that most of the former members of his platoon, given their unprofessional conducts (especially the part about running an Afghani child over with a MRAP), are possibly motivated in their swift-boating of Bergdahl because they themselves could possibly get court-martial if people values the credibility of Bergdahl's testimonies.

[TerraPrime]

I can't remember even the most dingbat paleocons claiming that Obama was raised in Kenya. That he was born there sure, that he forged his birth certificate and that he's a Muslim homosexual atheist communist.. certainly. But actually raised there, went to school there? Can't recall that.

So... dropping your CO2 is not a pollutant nonsense, now? Or just didn't get to read those responses to your inanity?

[DanteGabriel]

How many of the soldiers who served with Bergdahl are going on record with their antipathy toward him? Three? Four? While the particulars of the case have been established for years, as revealed by that Rolling Stone article?

And most of them were organized by a Republican strategist...

The New York Times ran one of the manifold articles Monday focused on resentment toward Bergdahl among some of the soldiers in his unit, and the paper disclosed the interviews were arranged by GOP strategists.

Republicans and conservatives have questioned the legal and national security implications of the prisoner swap that led to Bergdahl's release. But they have also scrutinized the POW over his 2009 disappearance and his stated objections to the military's actions. Some on the right have even gone after Bergdahl's father, Bob.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-strategists-interviews-bergdahl

Let's just try and keep this in mind before certain posters here get carried away with the "overwhelming" condemnation of Bergdahl or accuse the White House of politicizing the release of a POW while making no acknowledgement of the orchestration of the anti-Bergdahl campaign by the other side.

[awesome possum]

I find it amazing how the focus is all on him "pissing on the Army" while none of it is on the substance of his complaints. Given complaints like this:

You know who has been "pissing on the Army" for years? The Army.

When it declares the death of LaVena Johnson - who was found with a broken nose, black eye, loose teeth, and burns from a corrosive chemical on her genitals (thought to be used to remove DNA from a rape) - a suicide.

When 30% of women in the military are raped, and nothing is done about most of them.

When one in four soldiers appear to suffer from at least one psychiatric disorder

Three of my really good friends - two from high school and one from college - joined the military and went to war. Two of them are now shells of their former selves due to the things they did and witnessed while there.

I don't believe desertion is the way to go about things if you willingly signed up, but this idiotic jingoistic idea that somehow desertion taints the military is bullshit. The military is already tainted.

ETA - and another great example fresh off the presses: the officer in charge of sexual assault prevention at Fort Hood was just busted running a prostitution ring

A cash-strapped female soldier told a Fort Hood hearing board Tuesday about how a noncommissioned sexual assault prevention officer on base forced her into a prostitution ring so she could buy groceries for her child.

"Basically, it was having sex with higher ranking officers for money," the woman told the board, the Killeen Daily Herald reported.

The private, who was 20 and struggling as a single mother of a 3-year-old child at the time of the alleged prostitution, was granted immunity in return for her testimony. She told the board how McQueen snapped pics of her naked to distribute to potential clients. The two also had sex so McQueen could see how she would “act out” with clients.

Another female private claims McQueen sexually assaulted her when he tried to recruit her into the military sex ring.

[IheartIheartTesla]

I would speculate that most of the former members of his platoon, given their unprofessional conducts (especially the part about running an Afghani child over with a MRAP), are possibly motivated in their swift-boating of Bergdahl because they themselves could possibly get court-martial if people values the credibility of Bergdahl's testimonies.

Its a possibility, which is why getting him back makes all the more sense so all allegations and counter-allegations can be fully explored.

[TrackerNeil]

Do you notice how the conversation has been neatly diverted from the trade itself to Bergdahl's general worthiness?

As far as I am concerned, if Republicans are really concerned that a law has been broken they can take the president to court. If they don't even try then they're not really serious and all this fuss is just a talking point.

[BloodRider]

I'm not objecting he could be senile and hypocritical, but you probably shouldn't stoop to wishing those you disagree with would have been killed. How would you react to, "I wish Obama's classmates in Kenya would have beat his dumb ass to death".

Oh nevermind you've got mod support? TP please tell us you were commenting sarcastically on what McCain did and not showing support of wishing those we disagree with had been killed.

HA!

Someone is not paying attention. Like at all.

[DanteGabriel]

Do you notice how the conversation has been neatly diverted from the trade itself to Bergdahl's general worthiness?

Yes, and others have noticed how a few Republicans reacted positively to news of Bergdahl's release before the memo went out on how they're supposed to react.

One sitting member of Congress actually had the gall to call Bergdahl a "hero" -- which as our current flock of conservatives know, is strictly against right wing bullshitariat orders.

The Upshot's Derek Willis noticed that Rep. Lee Terry (R-NE) put out a statement and Facebook post on Saturday about Bergdahl's release before scrubbing them both.

"A grateful nation welcomes the news of the return of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl," Terry said in the statement. "I have the pleasure of regularly speaking with our nation's active duty military and veterans and I know that there is nothing more solemn than the pledge to never leave one of their own behind on the field of battle."

Terry called Bergdahl a "national hero."

Remember, Republicans were always against the idea of a prisoner exchange for Bergdahl, only just now discovered what an unpatriotic son-of-a-Taliban he is, and we have always been at war with Oceana.

As far as I am concerned, if Republicans are really concerned that a law has been broken they can take the president to court. If they don't even try then they're not really serious and all this fuss is just a talking point.

Oh, they're already banging the impeachment drum on Fox. Then again, one could argue they've been banging that drum more or less since he originally committed the twin crimes of being Elected While Being a Democrat and Elected While Black.

[awesome possum]

There's really one word that sums up this nonsense: BERGDAHLZI!!!

[mcbigski]

Why aren't people talking about conscientious objection? If half of what Bergdahl claimed to have happened actually did happen, I'd think there's a good case to be made to conscientiously object to the actions and to his enlistment. But the court does need to sort this out.

Doesn't the conscientious part of conscientious objection imply a bit more formality than just disappearing from a foward base and leaving it short staffed with a note in your stead? Granted they'd probably have told him to pound sand in his hearing, but there's got to be proper channels for this sort of thing, right?

Even if that's a bit of an exaggeration, there was only one US-Nazi Germany prisoner exchange and it was an even exchange of 149 for 149 enlisted men and low-level officers.

An even exchange with the Germans, or one enlistee for 5 guys POTUS was afraid to notify Congress about as anything other than a fait acccompli. Would that be the case the if the 5 guys in questions were all just goat herders? Saying 'We traded with the Nazis too' is a pathetically thin rationalization.

At least mcbigski was nice enough to project what the rest of his post would be in his first sentence.

No. Not even close.

Still, nice enough to see the Reality Based Community is as on point as ever.