"The Sacrifice" Asha

[thehandwipes]

Except how many NW were outside to witness that attack? Marsh's men likely killed off any of his supporters to avoid giving a contradictory story to Selyse.

Marsh is also calculating, and likely had a plan beforehand.

Marsh's men had the element of surprise, and he probably sent someone to Selyse and Axell saying the wildings broke the pact and killed Jon. If Axell sends men to see, the first thing they'd see is Wun Wun with Ser Patrek's corpse, and then wildlings fighting men of the NW (Marsh's men), and seeing Jon and a few other bodies on the ground.

Not a chance. Jon's assassination is very blatantly modeled on the stories of Caesar's assassination. Jon overstepped his authority as LC of the Watch and was killed by a small group of conservatives who sincerely thought they had no other choice. Whether the stories of Caesar's death are true or not, the sources tell us that Caesar's assassins had little to no plan for the aftermath of what they've done. They went out of their way not to kille any of Caesar's supporters, only the tyrant himself. Bowen Marsh is small minded, not a mindless cutthroat. He did what he did "for the Watch" (he might as well have said "thus ever for tyrants"), there's no way he's going to follow it up with a purge of Jon's supporters.

[thehandwipes]

Theon is a very different case from Asha. Whether he murdered real Starks or two other children is quite irrelevant. He was NOT kind to the people of Winterfell, used innocent men as scapegoats, killed people simply to maintain his authority and not for justice, and, after promising King Robb to bring him his father's ships he attacked Robb's home base instead, which directly led to his defeat because it made his enemies bold enough to betray him.

So I don't think the Northerners see Theon the same way as Asha, and I also don't think it makes a good story for him to take the Black under the circumstances.

Theon is as bound to his father and his family as any other man. He has crimes to answer for, but plenty have done far worse with less compunction than he and he didn't owe the people of Winterfell anything. Not that it's relevant to this discussion.

The Ironborn at this point will not listen to a word that Theon has to say. He has no ability to persuade them of anything. To them he is just the guy who lost Winterfell and has no dick.

Nail on the head, Theon has no future in the Watch, or the Iron Islands.

And the most important question: If Theon is not sacrificed, then someone ELSE will be sacrificed. Why do people think that is better? Why do people think it is ok for Shireen to die, or Asha to die, but not Theon? Because there is not the slightest doubt that all of the talk of sacrificing by Mel and her followers is leading to a significant sacrifice.

Nobody's saying its perfectly alright to kill Shireen, but she's on the Wall with Mel and her nutjob mother and Stannis isn't there to protect her. The LC is "dead", the Wall will soon be in chaos, and Great Other is rising in the north. I believe Mel and Selyse will do something truly terrible in the chaos (unless Davos can stop them, his POV's cut off in the middle of ADWD also), the only question is will it accomplish anything.

Finally, the notion that Theon can't die because he is a POV. Well now is the point in the story where POV characters are going to start dying. Theon has no more armour protecting him from death than Asha or Barristan, Arianne or Brienne - all characters that people seem very comfortable with declaring to be doomed.

The only one of those I think will die early in TWOW is Barristan. As I said, he has six POV's in the north and it seems like he'll need all of them to tell the story (if the story goes the way I think it will). He may well die by the end of TWOW or ADOS and you can consider his story in ADWD foreshadowing if you want, but unless it happens before the battle of ice (where he meant for the story to end), it wont be part of the same arc.

[John Doe]

I think Asha will be one the island to raw the Freys, and give illusion of solid ground surrounding them where the ice is most unstable. However, a few Freys would make it onto the island, and Hosteen Frey may kill Asha, spilling her blood near the weirwood (something tells me Tristifer would go berserk and kill Hosteen after he kills Asha).

The tree itself would seve this purpose much better than a group of people standing beside the tree.

[Fire Eater]

It is not about what you said.

It is about the actual consequences of the events in the books, and tracing through the implications of what you are proposing.

If Theon joins the Watch, there is either no Watch left to join, or a Watch run by March and co, who gladly submit to the Boltons.

There is simply no alternative in the text. It is irrelevant if Stannis or Theon knows about the mutiny. Those are the facts on the ground, leaving Theon with no "join the Watch" alternative.

I think a Watch will be there, and Jon will have woken up by then.

There is nothing to say Theon can't. I think Luwin's suggestion wasn't for nothing.

IMO, Theon and his party will find their way to Shadow Tower whether by intentionally avoiding the CB or losing their way. At the Shadow Tower, they will see that the Weeper had taken the castle and put the garrison to the sword.

That is a theory I could get down with. The Weeper likely has 500-1000 men against Mallisters less than 200.

Not a chance. Jon's assassination is very blatantly modeled on the stories of Caesar's assassination. Jon overstepped his authority as LC of the Watch and was killed by a small group of conservatives who sincerely thought they had no other choice. Whether the stories of Caesar's death are true or not, the sources tell us that Caesar's assassins had little to no plan for the aftermath of what they've done. They went out of their way not to kille any of Caesar's supporters, only the tyrant himself. Bowen Marsh is small minded, not a mindless cutthroat. He did what he did "for the Watch" (he might as well have said "thus ever for tyrants"), there's no way he's going to follow it up with a purge of Jon's supporters.

Except Caesar's assassination wasn't spontaneous, but planned. There are clear signs that Marsh was planning Jon's assassination before the Pink Letter. What did you expect Jon to do in that situation with the Pink Letter? He couldn't ignore the letter as the Boltons would eventually come to CB, and endanger everyone there. He couldn't meet Ramsay's demands as he didn't have Theon and "Arya." Fighting the Boltons was his only option, and if he had to fight the Boltons, he couldn't come to CB as CB didn't have any defenses to the south. He could have met them on the kingsroad serving as a barrier in between them and CB, and the NW could put it down as Jon going rogue if he went down since it was him alone.

What Marsh did was illegal as it couldn't be called an execution, and there was no sentencing.

[Hippocras]

The only one of those I think will die early in TWOW is Barristan. As I said, he has six POV's in the north and it seems like he'll need all of them to tell the story (if the story goes the way I think it will). He may well die by the end of TWOW or ADOS and you can consider his story in ADWD foreshadowing if you want, but unless it happens before the battle of ice (where he meant for the story to end), it wont be part of the same arc.

I am not convinced Barristan will die. His purpose (only living witness to important details of history) has not been fulfilled. But that is for another thread.

Why do you think all the current POVs are needed? IMO the North is well covered.

Asha can cover Stannis and co. at Winterfell. Bran possibly in an odd magical way as well.

Damphair still exists, cooking up anti-Euron sentiment on the II and the Stannis storyline will soon converge with that one IMO.

Whatever goes down at the Wall will be covered by Melisandre and possibly Ghost(Jon) and maybe Bran as well via warging.

Davos will give us other aspects of the Wall events but probably Eastwatch, or alternately might give us Hardhome. He might also return to White Harbour and give us the details of the Manderly activities. In any case I don't think Davos will be in the same place as Asha or Mel any time soon.

[thehandwipes]

Except Caesar's assassination wasn't spontaneous, but planned. There are clear signs that Marsh was planning Jon's assassination before the Pink Letter. What did you expect Jon to do in that situation with the Pink Letter? He couldn't ignore the letter as the Boltons would eventually come to CB, and endanger everyone there. He couldn't meet Ramsay's demands as he didn't have Theon and "Arya." Fighting the Boltons was his only option, and if he had to fight the Boltons, he couldn't come to CB as CB didn't have any defenses to the south. He could have met them on the kingsroad serving as a barrier in between them and CB, and the NW could put it down as Jon going rogue if he went down since it was him alone.

What Marsh did was illegal as it couldn't be called an execution, and there was no sentencing.

I never said Caesar's assassination was spontaneous, only that the assassins severely misjudged what would happen afterwards and were unprepared for the backlash. I also never said that Jon's assassination was legal.

But it was Jon who repeatedly provoked the Bolton's to war. As I said to you in another thread, nobody could possibly argue that leaving any human being in the hands of someone like Ramsay is the moral choice, but Jon clearly overstepped his authority several times in ADWD, stealing "Arya" is simply the most egregious. Jon's perspective and his good intentions are clear through his POVs, but what would have happened if Marsh or any other member of the Watch had tried to draw them all into war because a sister was in danger. Jon answers that himself, he'd tell him that it was none of his concern anymore.

[thehandwipes]

Why do you think all the current POVs are needed? IMO the North is well covered.

I don't think GRRM will want us spending too much time in Bran or Melisandre's head, there's too much info he'll want to remain hidden and he can't do that reasonably if we get too many POVs from them. I don't think he ever even intended to use Mel as a POV, he simply needed to dispel fan distrust of her and establish that she is, if nothing else, sincere.

Jon I expect to remain dead for awhile. When he rises the Wall will fall and since I hope TWOW will end with the Others reaching the walls of Winterfell I expect him to be dead till the middle of TWOW. If GRRM decides to go for three books, then the Wall might fall at the end.

Davos I pray is at Hardhome, I need to see that. Hardhome might also be a great way to get perspective on the Others without resorting to something as simple as Bran telling us everything we need to know. Though I think we will learn the Starks (and thus the Others) true history via Bran by the time the Wall comes down.

This leaves only Asha and Theon and with so much happening south of the Wall (Battle of Ice, the Pink Letter, ongoing Stannis/Bolton fighting, Jon's resurrection, and the Others reaching Stannis's forces in Winterfell) I think both will be needed. And if there is any truth at all to some of crazy Bolton theories we'll need someone to POV that. Theon's story is also heavily linked to Winterfell and with events refocusing on the Stark home, it would be a shame if Theon wasn't there.

[Hrafntýr]

Well, Theon was quite usefull when Ramsay took Moat Cailin, so he can be of use to Stannis alive.

Wasn´t Dagmer Cleftjaw, the Ironborn who I believe is currently in charge of Torrhen´s Square, quite close with Theon?

Also, Stannis says this in the sample chapter in TWOW:

"Just now, the turncloak is more use to me alive. He has knowledge we may need."

Stannis the strategist is unwilling to sacrifice him, but the Stannis the pragmatist understands the need to sacrifice him in order to placate the mountain clans.

Personally, I´m not that fixed on the thought that someone has to be sacrificed just because of the title of the chapter. I agree that it looks quite bleak for both Asha and Theon, and both of them can considered to be "the sacrifice" as they see themselves as pencilled in to be sacrificed. But like I have posted earlier, I think Stannis might never get around at doing the actual sacrificing, at least for the time being, as the Bolton and Frey forces are closing in, and he needs to come up with a plan quickly.

I guess my opinion is just based on a hunch and a feeling that Theon has more to contribute (that just getting his head taken off in front of the heart tree) in order for him to repent. Also, he clearly wants to die, and poor Theon won´t even get that simple wish fulfilled. Not yet at least. He´s a sorry, messed-up and suffering character, and I personally feel his story arc has more to offer. More than a swift sword strike in front of the heart tree.

I also subscribe to Mithras Stoneborns theory of Theon´s bastard with the Captains daughter. I have no idea on how that might play out, but a very interesting catch!

I agree, especially with the bolded. I think that the chapter title refers to the sacrifices to R'hllor that Asha witnesses, and then the thought of a sacrifice to the old gods that Asha considers when visiting the heart tree, but it needn't be taken as some sort of confirmation that an additional sacrifice will necessarily take place there. I do think that the chapter title, the sacrifices to R'hllor, and the imagery of sacrifice to the old gods is a way to keep the sacrificial motif at the forefront, and so agree with hippocras that we're likely to see a significant sacrifice at some point, and I even believe that Theon may well be set up as an offering to the old gods. But I'm among those who think that something will intervene so that his sacrifice isn't completed. I tend to think that Asha's revelation about the moot Kingsmoot requires Theon to live, and I think that Theon's realization that the old gods aren't done with him yet doesn't refer to him being offered to the old gods just yet.

[As an aside, on the "required" sacrifice: Does Mel yet know about the baby swap? If not, then Gilly's boy could be another candidate for sacrifice, with possibly interesting repercussions, given that he was "owed" to the WWs, and the fact that some folks might not be too keen on the idea of sacrificing a baby. At present, I think Val's the only one at the Wall who knows his true identity.]

[Fire Eater]

I never said Caesar's assassination was spontaneous, only that the assassins severely misjudged what would happen afterwards and were unprepared for the backlash. I also never said that Jon's assassination was legal.

But it was Jon who repeatedly provoked the Bolton's to war. As I said to you in another thread, nobody could possibly argue that leaving any human being in the hands of someone like Ramsay is the moral choice, but Jon clearly overstepped his authority several times in ADWD, stealing "Arya" is simply the most egregious. Jon's perspective and his good intentions are clear through his POVs, but what would have happened if Marsh or any other member of the Watch had tried to draw them all into war because a sister was in danger. Jon answers that himself, he'd tell him that it was none of his concern anymore.

Okay then.

How did he repeatedly provoke the Boltons? He never threatened or attacked them IIRC. Jon didn't send Mance to WF, Melisandre did. Jon thought Mance was simply along with the kingsroad doing a pick up job for when Arya comes running to CB. He wouldn't have drawn the NW into an all-out war given only Jon alone was moving against the Boltons. The Boltons wouldn't go from the Shadow Tower to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea to wipe them all out without pissing off the North who regard it as a respected institution with members of Northern houses in it.

Where did he overstep his authority?

[Northernmonkey]

I don't think GRRM will want us spending too much time in Bran or Melisandre's head, there's too much info he'll want to remain hidden and he can't do that reasonably if we get too many POVs from them. I don't think he ever even intended to use Mel as a POV, he simply needed to dispel fan distrust of her and establish that she is, if nothing else, sincere.

I agree. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mel never has another POV chapter.

[Hippocras]

I agree. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mel never has another POV chapter.

With Jon badly injured Mel is the only POV at the Wall.

[thehandwipes]

With Jon dead, Mel will probably have a handful of POVs. However, Jeyne is heading to the Wall so its possible Asha or Theon might go as well though Stannis may not want to part with either.

[Hippocras]

With Jon dead, Mel will probably have a handful of POVs. However, Jeyne is heading to the Wall so its possible Asha or Theon might go as well though Stannis may not want to part with either.

Jon's not dead. His POV will not be accessible for a while so that is a side detail.....but he is not dead.

[thehandwipes]

How did he repeatedly provoke the Boltons? He never threatened or attacked them IIRC. Jon didn't send Mance to WF, Melisandre did. Jon thought Mance was simply along with the kingsroad doing a pick up job for when Arya comes running to CB. He wouldn't have drawn the NW into an all-out war given only Jon alone was moving against the Boltons. The Boltons wouldn't go from the Shadow Tower to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea to wipe them all out without pissing off the North who regard it as a respected institution with members of Northern houses in it.

Where did he overstep his authority?

He helped Stannis plan his campaign against the Boltons. He warned him not to bring wildlings through northern territory and gave him advice on how to win over the northern clans and lords. He acknowledges in his own POVs that he should not care or take part but does anyway. Even warns him about Karstark treachery.

He imprisoned a northern lord and arranged a marriage between a northern lady and a wildling chieftain in the hopes of establishing a new House Thenn at the Karhold. Roose Bolton, not Jon Snow, is the Warden of the North.

Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, when Melisandre planned to send Mance to kidnap "Arya," she wasn't exactly acting behind Jon's back. It may have been her idea, but she has no authority at Castle Black. Jon was complicit in the decision and it was done for his own benefit, Melisandre called it her gift to him.

He planned to march south with an army of wildlings loyal to him personally.

[thehandwipes]

Jon's not dead. His POV will not be accessible for a while so that is a side detail.....but he is not dead.

I agree to disagree.

[Fire Eater]

He helped Stannis plan his campaign against the Boltons. He warned him not to bring wildlings through northern territory and gave him advice on how to win over the northern clans and lords. He acknowledges in his own POVs that he should not care or take part but does anyway. Even warns him about Karstark treachery.

How do the Boltons know this exactly? The Boltons have no proof of Jon giving Stannis advice, and likely have nothing to go on. Even Roose doesn't mention Jon when saying why Stannis didn't go for the Dreadfort.

He imprisoned a northern lord and arranged a marriage between a northern lady and a wildling chieftain in the hopes of establishing a new House Thenn at the Karhold. Roose Bolton, not Jon Snow, is the Warden of the North.

Northern lord? Cregan is no lord need I remind you. He came armed, and shot a crossbow at Jon's party. Did you expect Jon to shrug off that he had tried to kill one of his party? Jon was justified in that moment to imprison Karstark. The marriage was at CB, but the NW sent the couple no military aid. Jon can't establish House Thenn at Karhold if Harrion is still alive.

Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, when Melisandre planned to send Mance to kidnap "Arya," she wasn't exactly acting behind Jon's back. It may have been her idea, but she has no authority at Castle Black. Jon was complicit in the decision and it was done for his own benefit, Melisandre called it her gift to him.

He planned to march south with an army of wildlings loyal to him personally.

Could his sister truly have escaped such captors? How would she do that? Arya was always quick and clever, but in the end she's just a little girl, and Roose Bolton is not the sort who would be careless with a prize of such great worth.

She was acting behind his back in sending Mance to WF. She has done it before with Stannis. Those thoughts prove that Jon thought Mance was picking her up along the kingsroad not WF.

Except as I said repeatedly, he had not other choice. He couldn't give in to their demands since he didn't have Reek and "Arya." If he was going to fight them, then he couldn't wait at CB since it has no defenses to the south. If he was going to fight them he had to bring the battle to them. The NW could put him down as a rogue given none of them would have gone with him.

[thehandwipes]

How do the Boltons know this exactly? The Boltons have no proof of Jon giving Stannis advice, and likely have nothing to go on. Even Roose doesn't mention Jon when saying why Stannis didn't go for the Dreadfort.

Oathbreaking isn't oathbreaking if no one can prove it? Is that what you're saying? Do you think Roose is going to try to arrest Jon and put him on trial?

Northern lord? Cregan is no lord need I remind you. He came armed, and shot a crossbow at Jon's party. Did you expect Jon to shrug off that he had tried to kill one of his party? Jon was justified in that moment to imprison Karstark. The marriage was at CB, but the NW sent the couple no military aid. Jon can't establish House Thenn at Karhold if Harrion is still alive.

Do I need to remind you that "lord" is a term of courtesy amongst the nobility. The nephew of the previous Lord may be refered to as "a lord" or "my lord" even if he isn't the Lord of the Karhold.

You have your facts all messed up, no offense. Cregan wasn't arrested for firing a "crossbow at Jon's party," Jon rides out and surprises them on the road (itself a provocative act, the road is known to be dangerous) with the expressed intent to reach him before he can arrive at Castle Black and claim guest rights. The only reason to do that is if Jon set out with the intention of seizing him (or killing him).

Cregan didn't fire the crossbow bolt, one of his party did and "paid for it with his life." We don't know the circumstances because the passage is brief but the hypocrisy of your argument is overwhelming. Jon can allow Melisandre to plot the kidnapping of Ramsay's bride and marry a northern lords betrothed off to another man, a man sworn to King Stannis, with his own tacit approval, in his own castle, but as long as its Melisandre doing it, its okay. One of Cregan's party fires a crossbow bolt, and Cregan is personally guilty. If he had ordered it, don't you think the other four men would have attacked as well.

The whole Karstark plot revolves around Harrion dying at Lannister hands. The Karstarks and Boltons are planning to remove Harrion from the succession by having him killed by their Lannister allies, and none of that is any of Jon's business. By seizing Cregan and marrying Alys to wildling chieftain sworn to a rebel king, he's saying that if Harrion dies he can raise up another claimant. Jon is not the Warden of the North, this can not be seen as anything other than a direct challenge to Bolton authority.

She was acting behind his back in sending Mance to WF. She has done it before with Stannis. Those thoughts prove that Jon thought Mance was picking her up along the kingsroad not WF.

Here, there, a little to the left, half a mile east, somewhere else; it doesn't matter where he planned to take her from. When Catelyn took Tywin Lannister's son, what happened? When Rhaegar took Robert Baratheon's betrothed, what happened? When Jon planned to take his sister, Ramsay's wife, on whom the legitimacy of their claim to Winterfell and the North is entirely dependent on, what should Jon have expected to happen?

Except as I said repeatedly, he had not other choice. He couldn't give in to their demands since he didn't have Reek and "Arya." If he was going to fight them, then he couldn't wait at CB since it has no defenses to the south. If he was going to fight them he had to bring the battle to them. The NW could put him down as a rogue given none of them would have gone with him.

You can say it till you're blue in the face, doesn't make it true. Jon boxed himself in with his own actions and now he's doubling down by breaking his oath again. And planning to attack Winterfell (along with the planned Hardhome expedition) raises serious doubts about his capabilities as a strategist. He has an army of wildlings, not known for their capabilities in siege warfare. Yet he plans to take them on a grueling march to attack the walls of Winterfell. He'd be better off setting them to work digging trenches and building palisades south of Castle Black. When the Boltons march north, let the wildlings engage in the type of warfare they're good at, hit and run ambushes.

[Ser Lepus]

Quick question, why is Asha's POV in aDwD named "The Sacrifice"? has anyone figured it out? or is it just me in the dark?

Well, she's the daughter of a king, so she has king's blood, soooooo...well, you know the rest...

[Fire Eater]

Oathbreaking isn't oathbreaking if no one can prove it? Is that what you're saying? Do you think Roose is going to try to arrest Jon and put him on trial?

Do I need to remind you that "lord" is a term of courtesy amongst the nobility. The nephew of the previous Lord may be refered to as "a lord" or "my lord" even if he isn't the Lord of the Karhold.

Every criminal case requires some form of proof.

Except Cregan isn't called "lord" by anyone. People can call someone "my lord," but not "lord" unless they have the actual title.

You have your facts all messed up, no offense. Cregan wasn't arrested for firing a "crossbow at Jon's party," Jon rides out and surprises them on the road (itself a provocative act, the road is known to be dangerous) with the expressed intent to reach him before he can arrive at Castle Black and claim guest rights. The only reason to do that is if Jon set out with the intention of seizing him (or killing him).

Cregan didn't fire the crossbow bolt, one of his party did and "paid for it with his life." We don't know the circumstances because the passage is brief but the hypocrisy of your argument is overwhelming. Jon can allow Melisandre to plot the kidnapping of Ramsay's bride and marry a northern lords betrothed off to another man, a man sworn to King Stannis, with his own tacit approval, in his own castle, but as long as its Melisandre doing it, its okay. One of Cregan's party fires a crossbow bolt, and Cregan is personally guilty. If he had ordered it, don't you think the other four men would have attacked as well.

I think it just the opposite, your facts are the ones that are mixed up if you don't mind me saying so myself. The problem with that is Jon and his men didn't assault Cregan, and hadn't even drawn their swords. Jon was just standing there. There was nothing that could have prevented Cregan from calling out asking what their intentions were. Cregan's party was the one who assaulted, no matter the intent.

Except do you really think Cregan's man would fire a crossbow without the approval of his master? Or can he just shoot at anybody regardless of what Cregan thinks? I am not being hypocritical. Jon clearly didn't send Mance to WF. He thought Mance was merely waiting along the kingsroad. He was taking a risk, just not as big as he thought when Mel sent them to WF. The four men didn't attack, because they were probably seeing if the NW men would scatter after a crossbow bolt came flying in their direction. It was likely to scare them off.

The whole Karstark plot revolves around Harrion dying at Lannister hands. The Karstarks and Boltons are planning to remove Harrion from the succession by having him killed by their Lannister allies, and none of that is any of Jon's business. By seizing Cregan and marrying Alys to wildling chieftain sworn to a rebel king, he's saying that if Harrion dies he can raise up another claimant. Jon is not the Warden of the North, this can not be seen as anything other than a direct challenge to Bolton authority.

Here, there, a little to the left, half a mile east, somewhere else; it doesn't matter where he planned to take her from. When Catelyn took Tywin Lannister's son, what happened? When Rhaegar took Robert Baratheon's betrothed, what happened? When Jon planned to take his sister, Ramsay's wife, on whom the legitimacy of their claim to Winterfell and the North is entirely dependent on, what should Jon have expected to happen?

Except Alys came to him, and she was his guest. He got pulled into it. Sigorn didn't even march with Stannis, so I doubt they think he is sworn to Stannis. The Boltons wouldn't miss it since their allies, the cadet Karstarks, would be pissed.

It does since, Jon didn't send men to infiltrate WF, which is a blatant act of aggression against the Boltons. Someone would have to have seen Mance taking Arya along the kingsroad, where there are hardly any eyes. The problem with that is Tyrion was taken forcefully while Arya wouldn't have been. Lyanna was thought to be kidnapped, and that didn't cause RR, but Aerys killing Rickardd and Brandon. The Boltons would have to get past Stannis first, and if they did come to CB, Jon would simply have already sent Arya on a ship, and say he never saw her. No one at CB would tell them otherwise. It was a bit of a mistake I admit.

You can say it till you're blue in the face, doesn't make it true. Jon boxed himself in with his own actions and now he's doubling down by breaking his oath again. And planning to attack Winterfell (along with the planned Hardhome expedition) raises serious doubts about his capabilities as a strategist. He has an army of wildlings, not known for their capabilities in siege warfare. Yet he plans to take them on a grueling march to attack the walls of Winterfell. He'd be better off setting them to work digging trenches and building palisades south of Castle Black. When the Boltons march north, let the wildlings engage in the type of warfare they're good at, hit and run ambushes.

It isn't oathbreaing since if he lets the Boltons come to CB, they will pose a threat to the people. Jon has to take action, and CB has no defenses. There is precedent for going south to deal with a threat when Jolly Jack went south to deal with Raymun Redbeard. Jon, I think, wasn't going to WF, he is smart enough to know to wait for the Boltons to come.

I think he will (after he wakes up) plan an ambush along the kingsroad hidden in the woods with Long Lake on the other side, and ambush the Boltons at sunset, coming from the west with the sun at his back.

[Hippocras]

Well, she's the daughter of a king, so she has king's blood, soooooo...well, you know the rest...

Kind of wish more thread reading happened before responding....

This is not it, really. Stannis's men want to burn her in that chapter simply because they are addicted to burning people and she is their prize prisoner. They believe burning people helps them achieve victory.

It is debatable if Asha's king's blood matters because nowhere in discussions of king's blood does it clarify if daughters are equivalent to sons. They are not equivalent when it comes to laws of inherritance, so...

If any king's blood is to be used, it is Theon's. He was the only son and heir of Balon, which makes him now king. Theon's arrival at the camp was in that chapter.