GRRM is a bad writer?

[shadowofasshai]

In terms of lexiconic differences, an interesting note is that the Scotch-Irish idiomatic language was more formative in Appalachian English...largely the basis for 'American English' if the term can be used...than 'Queen's/Oxford' English. So in that respect there are fundamental reasons why Americans may have a greater tendency to use simpler words with greater volume than to search for more comprehensive but less commonly understood words.

In addition, the ex-pat circle of the 20's that consciously pushed a new, 'American' style of writing did emphasize distillation and reduction. And that's not just Hemingway; Pound, Stein and many others held the same ideals. Fitzgerald is interesting because his language is complex and pictorial, but it's usually more so in terms of the combinations of words for effect rather than the choice of complex words.

A couple of ironies being that Conrad and Joyce were their beacons, and that similar movements have occurred in English writing style as well, just not with the same degree of public awareness.

:agree: British Literature has evolved over 1000 years whereas many Americans during the last century were 1st generation immigrants learning a new language, an example of this culture boom would be (content wise very ironically) Mario Puzo who spoke Italian at home but is an author I would still recommend to anybody.

[WTFSalami]

So you don't end up spending two books doing it.

We got a continuation of the story that actually made sense. You don't end the way ASOS ended and then just jump forward 5 years, this isn't a Tarantino movie.

We needed to see the immediate ramifications of Tywin's death on not just House Lannister but on the entire realm. We needed to see the immediate impact of Stannis' arrival at the Wall, as well as in the North. We needed to finally get the perspective of the Martells and to see the impact that Balon's death had on the Iron Islands.

AFFC and ADWD are the absolute most logical progressions of the story. A 5 year time-jump is nonsensical.

[GERM]

Ugh I'm so tired of hearing about this 5 year gap would have been better. It was a phenomenally stupid idea to begin with.

Jumping ahead 5 years after the insane crescendo that was the ending of ASOS would have been like Jimi Hendrix laying his guitar down and walking off stage right before the solo in All Along The Watchtower.

Why the hell GRRM ever thought that was a good idea is baffling to me. 5 years is a really long fucking time in a world without advanced technology, so why would you ever put yourself in a position to have to spend half the book using memories and flashbacks to explain what had been going on for the last 5 years? You just had Stoneheart roaming around the Riverlands for 5 years? The White Walkers just said "fuck it, we've been gone for thousands of years, what's another five?" Stannis was just going to hang around with Jon Snow at the Wall for 5 years until he decided to march on Winterfell? Daenerys was just going to sit in Meereen for 5 years and struggle against all these enemies and conspiracies?

So frustrating to think that he even considered this, it's so fucking idiotic from a pure story-telling standpoint. Glad he realized the error before we got the 4th book in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series, A Flash of Backs.

I honestly don't see a single thing in AFFC or ADWD that couldn't have effectively portrayed with flashbacks. I can think of several things that would have been presented better in flashback format. Lol

[GERM]

We got a continuation of the story that actually made sense. You don't end the way ASOS ended and then just jump forward 5 years, this isn't a Tarantino movie.

We needed to see the immediate ramifications of Tywin's death on not just House Lannister but on the entire realm. We needed to see the immediate impact of Stannis' arrival at the Wall, as well as in the North. We needed to finally get the perspective of the Martells and to see the impact that Balon's death had on the Iron Islands.

AFFC and ADWD are the absolute most logical progressions of the story. A 5 year time-jump is nonsensical.

Lol, because Cersei's and Stannis' storyline were incredibly pivotal to the telling of this story.

A simple Jamie flashback talking about how his sister made a bungled attempt of ruling with x, y and z would have killed every one of her chapters and probably made her story better.

Same with a Jon chapter on Stannis.

[WTFSalami]

I honestly don't see a single thing in AFFC or ADWD that couldn't have effectively portrayed with flashbacks. I can think of several things that would have been presented better in flashback format. Lol

Fair enough.

I prefer to move and shake within the story as it happens. History is great, and serves to build an incredible world, but I can't imagine this story any other way than the way in which AFFC and ADWD told it, it's just too good. Cersei's descent into madness would never be as entertaining in flashbacks as it was to just be there in the moment. Same with Theon and Jon and the Martells and the Greyjoys.

There's too much immediate impact to be had to just abandon it all to the memories of POV characters.

[Cas Stark]

We got a continuation of the story that actually made sense. You don't end the way ASOS ended and then just jump forward 5 years, this isn't a Tarantino movie.

We needed to see the immediate ramifications of Tywin's death on not just House Lannister but on the entire realm. We needed to see the immediate impact of Stannis' arrival at the Wall, as well as in the North. We needed to finally get the perspective of the Martells and to see the impact that Balon's death had on the Iron Islands.

AFFC and ADWD are the absolute most logical progressions of the story. A 5 year time-jump is nonsensical.

It depends on your perspective I guess, I can see your point, that it would have been awkward to a degree, but we got two books that barely move the story forward at all, and in some cases, do not move the story forward at all. So, I'd have to question whether a jump could have possibly turned out worse than two meandering books that have not moved the story forward in any significant degree except for a couple of arcs.

[GERM]

Fair enough.

I prefer to move and shake within the story as it happens. History is great, and serves to build an incredible world, but I can't imagine this story any other way than the way in which AFFC and ADWD told it, it's just too good. Cersei's descent into madness would never be as entertaining in flashbacks as it was to just be there in the moment. Same with Theon and Jon and the Martells and the Greyjoys.

There's too much immediate impact to be had to just abandon it all to the memories of POV characters

I don't think it is a descent. I think she has always been bat shit crazy. Lol. We simply got her POV which proved it. The woman is a viperous bitch and always has been.

[WTFSalami]

Lol, because Cersei's and Stannis' storyline were incredibly pivotal to the telling of this story.

A simple Jamie flashback talking about how his sister made a bungled attempt of ruling with x, y and z would have killed every one of her chapters and probably made her story better.

Same with a Jon chapter on Stannis.

Completely disagree. Those Cersei chapters were absolutely epic. That spiral into insanity may be the single best character arc in the entire series. I have gone back and read her chapters in AFFC and ADWD multiple times.

She is the most insanely entertaining character in the whole series.

[James Arryn]

:agree: British Literature has evolved over 1000 years whereas many Americans during the last century were 1st generation immigrants learning a new language, an example of this culture boom would be (content wise very ironically) Mario Puzo who spoke Italian at home but is an author I would still recommend to anybody.

Yeah, as I implied and you expanded, a lot of this is socio-economic in origin. Ie, people who emigrated from Britain tended to be of the poorer/less educated variety. The potatoe famine would be something of an exception, touching as it did so many layers of Irish society ( still obviously hitting hardest at the lowest rungs) with the caveat that Irish culture/diction is a very lyrical ( I won't say lubricated) one.

Manifestations of these differences can still be seen. The (in?)famous 4th grade comprehension demands for newspapers which had no correspondence in Britain, as much as the likes if the Sun would indicate otherwise.

Ending on another ironic note, another oddity is that Americans tend to be more reverential about the seeming 'higher' brand of English practiced in Britain than are other ex-colonial lands. Studies have shown that American audiences indicating a higher degree of credibility and assumed intelligence to British speakers than American speakers, especially southern American speakers. For example, some very interesting studies were done on the invasion of Iraq, where American respondents who were shown various arguments for the invasion felt that the 2 voices who most effectively advocated the American/Bush argument were Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens.

That goes oddly hand in hand with the 'Is she English, or just affected?' popular idea.

[GERM]

It depends on your perspective I guess, I can see your point, that it would have been awkward to a degree, but we got two books that barely move the story forward at all, and in some cases, do not move the story forward at all. So, I'd have to question whether a jump could have possibly turned out worse than two meandering books that have not moved the story forward in any significant degree except for a couple of arcs.

In addition, what material did he add to carry this story forward that would have never been in the books otherwise. The entire Greyjoy storyline comes to mind. Which, while certain perspectives make an enjoying read, was completely unnecessary and all it did was create more for him to track, build around, and resolve.

[GERM]

Completely disagree. Those Cersei chapters were absolutely epic. That spiral into insanity may be the single best character arc in the entire series. I have gone back and read her chapters in AFFC and ADWD multiple times.

She is the most insanely entertaining character in the whole series.

Again, I don't think it is a descent. She thinks she is something more than what she really is. She was simply liberated with her father dead.

[Amber W]

It's the reason old people here watch Countdown and people in America watch Wheel of Fortune.

Someone from my college at uni actually won Countdown some time ago, apparently for the second time. That little snippet of useless info aside, I've never actually seen either.

[WTFSalami]

It depends on your perspective I guess, I can see your point, that it would have been awkward to a degree, but we got two books that barely move the story forward at all, and in some cases, do not move the story forward at all. So, I'd have to question whether a jump could have possibly turned out worse than two meandering books that have not moved the story forward in any significant degree except for a couple of arcs.

I guess I'm just somebody who has no problem wallowing in this world that Martin has created. If he wants to write 20 books I'm on board. I'm never going to complain about MORE Westeros and Essos.

[James Arryn]

I don't even know what Countdown is. Trivia game?

[Amber W]

I don't even know what Countdown is. Trivia game?

I don't know either, I've only ever heard it mention once :P Google says it's a 'show in which two contestants engage in a battle of wits, competing against the clock in games of lexical dexterity and numerical agility'.

[James Arryn]

I don't know either, I've only ever heard it mention once :P Google says it's a 'show in which two contestants engage in a battle of wits, competing against the clock in games of lexical dexterity and numerical agility'.

Lol. Sounds like a tax audit.

[WTFSalami]

Again, I don't think it is a descent. She thinks she is something more than what she really is. She was simply liberated with her father dead.

Is that not the very definition of descent? If you're barely floating above your own sanity and then someone comes along and cuts your tether and you hurl to the ground with reckless fury, how is that not a descent?

Her madness was held in check by her father, and as soon as he was out of the way, she willfully plunged headlong into it.

[Cas Stark]

I guess I'm just somebody who has no problem wallowing in this world that Martin has created. If he wants to write 20 books I'm on board. I'm never going to complain about MORE Westeros and Essos.

Eh. He's a novelist. He's supposed to be writing novels. I can't imagine what kind of collective insanity or denial took over his publisher, editor and the author that they all agreed on the bat shit insane split of the POVs between the books.

[GERM]

Is that not the very definition of descent? If you're barely floating above your own sanity and then someone comes along and cuts your tether and you hurl to the ground with reckless fury, how is that not a descent?

Her madness was held in check by her father, and as soon as he was out of the way, she willfully plunged headlong into it.

I would not say it was a descent. I envision a descent into madness seeing how one event after another slowly changed her. We only get a glimpse of her mind after Tywin, and the only difference you see from any of our other encounters with her are her thoughts.

What we see from Cersei is how each small blunder she makes leads her to disaster. That isn't insanity, it is idiocy.

I admit that the chapter where her moronic actions caught up to her was immensely satisfying, but 10 POV's of her being a fuck-up wasn't enjoyable for me. It is an easily resolvable plotline with flashbacks.

[shadowofasshai]

Sorry. Do you not have Youtube in America? 30 years.