GRRM is a bad writer?

[The One And Only]

Lol, are you one of those people who believe this story will be finished? How cute, lol.

If AWOW is done by next year, it is a possibility. If Martin lets HBO overtake him, the written series will be finished IMO.

That are a lot of "cute" people out there.

GRRM is not finishing the book series. His editor even made a hint that it might be going to 8 books. The first 3 books were great. He let the series get away from him in AFFC & ADWD and I don't think he is ever getting it back.

He started with a 5 page summary of the series. I think the show will hit all of those major points without the fluff of the books. The books now have something like 20 point of view characters currently alive. To try and finish the books this way is nearly impossible.

[GERM]

That are a lot of "cute" people out there.

GRRM is not finishing the book series. His editor even made a hint that it might be going to 8 books. The first 3 books were great. He let the series get away from him in AFFC & ADWD and I don't think he is ever getting it back.

He started with a 5 page summary of the series. I think the show will hit all of those major points without the fluff of the books. The books now have something like 20 point of view characters currently alive. To try and finish the books this way is nearly impossible.

When I said the written series will be finished, I meant it'll never be completed.

That being said, he can finish if he puts his mind to it and finds the drive. We'll see. Right now his mind is anywhere but on the books, and it is his right to be that way.

[Carey Snow]

.......

Ummm, Jordan's world was far, far more complex. I find Martin's story to be fairly predictable honestly. I can't think of a single mystery in his books that doesn't have a very pointed answer to it if you simply read with insight. I am unsure as to what books of Jordan's you were reading.

That being said, I made the comparison simply to talk about pacing. Jordan was as good, and probably better, in all aspects of writing than Martin. Nonetheless, I wasn't making that comparison.

Secondly, I don't know what side projects of Martin's that you're referring too. He has edited a few books and writes one show a season for AGOT and wrote two small novellas. Unless you're talking about vacations, interviews etc. which I agree, have been numerous. Also, I haven't really found any of his "side-projects" that fantastic.

I mean, Brandon Sanderson, who may not be as prolific of a writer as Martin, is one of the best world-builders of the genre IMO. He managed to write 4 books this year alone and is starting his next large installment of the Stormlight archive. I would consider those valid, time consuming side-projects.

Well, I will just say that writers are normally judged by the quality not the quantity of their work. Maybe if the quality is a tie, than quantity can be a tie breaker of sorts.

[GERM]

Well, I will just say that writers are normally judged by the quality not the quantity of their work. Maybe if the quality is a tie, than quantity can be a tie breaker of sorts.

I think writer's are judged based on everything involved in the writing process. Even the story. There are example after example of bad stories written by good authors. When I say this, Harlan Ellison comes to mind, but that is one of many.

Martin needs to find his story again and finish it, or we'll just add him to the list.

[Carey Snow]

The show has sort of ruined a lot of the great things about the books. And I don't mean that D&D did anything wrong. They have been awesome.

The books are vague and make people guess if people have duel identities or if there are grand schemes going on. The show has basically debunked most of this stuff. Most of the strong theories that were obvious have held true. The rest were just flat out wrong. And they make GRRM just seem like a writer who can't get a point across accurately. A writer who uses smoke and mirrors to cover up some of the boring plots going on. Way too many dead ends in the books.

I disagree, I see new theories posted everyday on this forum. And how do you know there will not be more twists coming? In aGoT few people thought Ned would actually go down. The first time reading aSoS few saw Cat, Robb, and Tywin going down.

I guess that if Jon and Dany defeat the others and then rule the Iron Throne, then yes it will have been obvious, but I doubt things will go that way. How it will go, we can only guess at. In most stories, I know the group of good guys is going to beat the bad guys (maybe with a couple casualties to make things interesting). In Martin's, book, who are the good guys? Were the bad guys (the others) just a red herring? Will the Others eventually come through and leave Westeros in ruins even if they are eventually fought off? Will they even ever pass the wall?

It is not predictable at all, except in hindsight.

[GERM]

I disagree, I see new theories posted everyday on this forum. And how do you know there will not be more twists coming? In aGoT few people thought Ned would actually go down. The first time reading aSoS few saw Cat, Robb, and Tywin going down.

I guess that if Jon and Dany defeat the others and then rule the Iron Throne, then yes it will have been obvious, but I doubt things will go that way. How it will go, we can only guess at. In most stories, I know the group of good guys is going to beat the bad guys (maybe with a couple casualties to make things interesting). In Martin's, book, who are the good guys? Were the bad guys (the others) just a red herring? Will the Others eventually come through and leave Westeros in ruins even if they are eventually fought off? Will they even ever pass the wall?

It is not predictable at all, except in hindsight.

As a whole, I can agree with this. However, I am normally right when I come up with a definitive theory. That's the nature of the beast. What I believe I had figured out about the WoT series turned out to be true....etc.

That being said, unless Martin is going to deviate from the foreshadowing (and that would make this entire forum pointless) he has placed in his books regarding specific events, Martin has a fairly predictable style of writing.

Can we know everything? No. No one can, and that is where the unpredictability comes from. However, I can honestly say that there was only one time in all 5 books where I simply said, "what the fuck just happened," and that was when Ned lost his head.

That is my only hindsight notice. I say that because if I had read closely the first read, it would have been obvious when there was reminiscing about the last time the Starks went south to the summons of a King, they died. It also can be said that this foreshadowing will mean that both Arya and Sansa are slated to die as well. However, Arya has a lot more foreshadowing than Sansa does.

Other than that, much of the stuff he does I figured was going to happen prior to it happening.

[Batbob45]

a tleast he did write about Vampire that are wimps and 50 shades

[GERM]

a tleast he did write about Vampire that are wimps and 50 shades

This strikes a cord. I read Twilight simply because the books were in my house when my mother came to visit. The series could have been remembered well by me if she didn't end it like only a woman could have :ack:

[The One And Only]

When I said the written series will be finished, I meant it'll never be completed.

That being said, he can finish if he puts his mind to it and finds the drive. We'll see. Right now his mind is anywhere but on the books, and it is his right to be that way.

Sure, he has the right to do anything he wants. It is still kind of messed up to get people to buy your books and then not give them a conclusion in that format. Which is exactly what we are likely looking at right now.

[The One And Only]

I disagree, I see new theories posted everyday on this forum. And how do you know there will not be more twists coming? In aGoT few people thought Ned would actually go down. The first time reading aSoS few saw Cat, Robb, and Tywin going down.

I guess that if Jon and Dany defeat the others and then rule the Iron Throne, then yes it will have been obvious, but I doubt things will go that way. How it will go, we can only guess at. In most stories, I know the group of good guys is going to beat the bad guys (maybe with a couple casualties to make things interesting). In Martin's, book, who are the good guys? Were the bad guys (the others) just a red herring? Will the Others eventually come through and leave Westeros in ruins even if they are eventually fought off? Will they even ever pass the wall?

It is not predictable at all, except in hindsight.

I wasn't talking about shocking deaths. I am talking about theories about duel personalities. About characters actually being dead or not. For example, the book had a part that made some people think that Robb Stark had a child on the way. This was never the case. GRRM just leaves so much content vague that it leaves way too many things possible.

Like I have said above, the guy introduced characters beyond the wall in the first pages of this entire saga and he wrote 5 books with almost nothing about them. Not good writing.

[GERM]

Sure, he has the right to do anything he wants. It is still kind of messed up to get people to buy your books and then not give them a conclusion in that format. Which is exactly what we are likely looking at right now.

I happen to agree, but there are some things you simply can't change. You can complain about it all you want, but the fact remains that it is outside our control.

This attitude will always reflect on him as an artist. It really is his choice on how he will be remembered.

[Carey Snow]

I wasn't talking about shocking deaths. I am talking about theories about duel personalities. About characters actually being dead or not. For example, the book had a part that made some people think that Robb Stark had a child on the way. This was never the case. GRRM just leaves so much content vague that it leaves way too many things possible.

Like I have said above, the guy introduced characters beyond the wall in the first pages of this entire saga and he wrote 5 books with almost nothing about them. Not good writing.

Well sure, the TV show will disspell some theories..... And if they beat him done, they will make theories useless except for interactions that are not tied up at the end. This does not make GRRM a poor writer though.

[Carey Snow]

As a whole, I can agree with this. However, I am normally right when I come up with a definitive theory. That's the nature of the beast. What I believe I had figured out about the WoT series turned out to be true....etc.

That being said, unless Martin is going to deviate from the foreshadowing (and that would make this entire forum pointless) he has placed in his books regarding specific events, Martin has a fairly predictable style of writing.

Can we know everything? No. No one can, and that is where the unpredictability comes from. However, I can honestly say that there was only one time in all 5 books where I simply said, "what the fuck just happened," and that was when Ned lost his head.

That is my only hindsight notice. I say that because if I had read closely the first read, it would have been obvious when there was reminiscing about the last time the Starks went south to the summons of a King, they died. It also can be said that this foreshadowing will mean that both Arya and Sansa are slated to die as well. However, Arya has a lot more foreshadowing than Sansa does.

Other than that, much of the stuff he does I figured was going to happen prior to it happening.

Ok, I have GERM on the record that both Sansa and Arya will die. We shall see if you are correct some year.

[Carey Snow]

This strikes a cord. I read Twilight simply because the books were in my house when my mother came to visit. The series could have been remembered well by me if she didn't end it like only a woman could have :ack:

Not a huge Twilight fan though I read them all. (love the Hunger Games) But I still take offense to that statement!

[Carey Snow]

I wasn't talking about shocking deaths. I am talking about theories about duel personalities. About characters actually being dead or not. For example, the book had a part that made some people think that Robb Stark had a child on the way. This was never the case. GRRM just leaves so much content vague that it leaves way too many things possible.

Like I have said above, the guy introduced characters beyond the wall in the first pages of this entire saga and he wrote 5 books with almost nothing about them. Not good writing.

That is your opinion. Mine is that he is leaving a lot to the readers imagination. There does not have to be a set ending to every character he introduces. If so, there would need to a 100 books.

Which characters beyond the wall in particular did he not touch base on? I will see if I can discover their fates for you.

[The Wolves]

Not a huge Twilight fan though I read them all. (love the Hunger Games) But I still take offense to that statement!

Right!!

[Jo498]

I do not think it impinges on the quality of the books whether some "theories" posited by the fandom are true or not. This is not a murder mystery where the most surprising plot twist may be a central quality.

But on the other hand GRRM is partly responsible for the odd situation of having thousands of fans waiting for years and nothing better to do than spin theories, because the books are not coming forth.

I read the books so quickly that I hardly anticipated any of the major twists. Not Ned's death and not the purple wedding (I had a bad feeling at the beginning of the Red wedding, but would not have expected something so disastrous). I was very surprised when Drogo died. But for me making theories is not necessarily part of the fun reading the books. Their main flaws and faults are certainly NOT that they are too predictable.

[James Arryn]

This strikes a cord. I read Twilight simply because the books were in my house when my mother came to visit. The series could have been remembered well by me if she didn't end it like only a woman could have :ack:

No offence, but wtf?

(Never read them, never will. Just talking about last line.)

[HexMachina]

Not a huge Twilight fan though I read them all. (love the Hunger Games) But I still take offense to that statement!

this.

[The Dragons Hand]

I think it is possible to be great at coming up with great ideas, worlds, characters, etc, but not be as good at writing about them. I think GRRM is great at both, personally.

We have a name for that, it's called George Lucas