yomi Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar Actually, I would call that "Robert Baratheon by a boar with the aid of Robert Baratheon, Lancel Lannister and Cersei Lannister". Good ones! except we shouldn't take any TWOW ones and Ser Hugh was not murdered. Not technically, at least. Technically a lot of people in the list weren't murdered but executed. If you count that as murder, you can surely count this murder disguised as a tourney accident. I don't think we should use Balon, Jojen or Jon. Balon being murdered is only a theory. Jojen only died in the show (Not sure if this is going to be book only) Jon is at best attempted murder. The text is ambiguous enough that it could go either way. :agree: Goat herder's son by Drogon (Does that count as a murder?) Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal Victarion's third wife by Victarion Maester Kerwin by Victarion's crew at his orders Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby Rattleshirt by Melisandre Lommy Greenhands by Raff the Sweetling Very good ones! Only one correction: Drogon killed the goat herder's daughter, Hazzea. Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other. :agree: More ideas (I start to get the feeling we can easily get 90 options): Donella Hornwood by Ramsay Snow Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, two Jeynes and many other women by Ramsay Snow 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys Targaryen Robb Stark's army by the Freys' and Boltons' army Masha Heddle by Lannister men Some villagers by the Tickler The inhabitant of Saltpans by Rorge & Co Lots of other smallfolk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I think we need to get a clear understanding of what the topic is going to be. If we are approaching 90 options then it justs seema like we are naming every murder in the books and alot of them aren't real "foul" in my book. like Lord Lyman Darry by Gregor CleganeThe two that Loras slew after renly died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PancakeMountainThatRides Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 My question is, is it just our favorite methods of killing or is it killings we find particularly bad or what? I think a lot of those on there aren't really that awful if it's really the most "foul" murder. Like are we supposed to feel bad for Craster? But if we're going by favorite killings, it'd be pretty awful if people voted for Rhaenys. Just asking for clarification.ETA: pretty much what Lyman asked right before me >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm just going by if the killing felt 'foul' or wrong to me. I understand that's a matter of opinion but that's what makes this game fun :) I suggest we add every one that anybody has suggested, decide what # we are going to play with (if we are over 90 play with 90, if under 90 play with 60 etc) & then have everyone vote off the correct # of murders.ETA: I think it's ok if some on the list don't feel foul to some people, they will get taken out when we vote off if enough people agree (I would highly doubt Craster would make it to our final list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 If we are doing novellas then I would suggest: Prince Baelor by his brother Prince MaekarRoger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake (survives the entire battle only to get killed in the end I believe.)Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other.Also I would second to add these except Roger of Pennytree (I wouldn't vote to not add him I just can't remember him :dunce:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomi Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 My interpretation of the theme was that we vote for murders that we find morally most wrong. It's "Murder most foul" after all, not "Favourite murder". But opinions about which murder is the worst may vary quiet a lot. Which for example is more foul, Ned's or Rattleshirt's? Ned was presented to us as a morally fine character, his death as a bad event, but he was beheaded with a Valarian steel sword, maybe the swiftest killing method they have in Westeros. Rattleshirt on the other hand seemed a quiet despicable person and his death not a big loss and probably even deserved, but he was condemned to a cruel death by burning.By Westerosi morals, Craster's murder might be considered quiet foul because it happened under sacred guest (or in this case host) right :dunno: Then again we have enough murders on this list where the victim was someone we wished no bad AND the murder itself was horrible and cruel, so I expect all the examples I mentioned above to be voted off quiet quickly. But, as Lyanna<3Rhaegar said, let's wait with the voting off until we are finished with adding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think I've added everything that anyone has suggested. I would vote to leave it & start voting off 9 rather than try to reach 90. I think we already have some most people will agree to remove & if we try to reach 90 we are going to just putting in fillers that will be removed early in the games. Of course that's just my opinion. If you all think we should continue adding suggest away :) 1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch5. Waymar Royce by the Others6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei7. Micah the butchers boy by the Hound8. Lady by Ned9. Jory Cassel by Jamies men10. Septa Mordane by Lannister guardsmen11. Vayan Poole by 12. Entire Stark household in KL by 13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey14. Daenerys unborn son by MMD (iffy)15. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)16. MMD by Daenerys17. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby18. The High Septon by the mob19. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & several of his men20. Robb by Walder & co.21. Catelyn by 22. Greywind by 23. Dacey Mormont by 24. Smalljon Umber by 25. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF26. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF27. 2 millers boys by Theon & co.28. Tywin by Tyrion29. Shae by Tyrion30. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.31. Lyssa Arryn by LF32. Marillion by LFs men33. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.34. Maester Luwin by 35. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW36. Craster by 37. Pycelle by Varys38. Kevan Lannister by Varys39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )41. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole42. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)43. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen44. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)45. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)46. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain47. Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)49. Dareon by Arya50. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya51. Weese by Jaqen/Arya52. The Tickler by Arya53. Insurer by Arya54. Hazzea by Drogon54. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegar55. Victarion's third wife by Victarion56. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders57. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby 58. Rattleshirt by Mel59. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling60. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar61. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake62. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay63. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay64. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters65. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys66. Robb Stark's army by Frey & Bolton armies67. Massa Heddle by Lannister men68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gerold Dayne Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 My nine would be8.lady by Ned15.Drogo by Daenerys23.Dacey Mormont24.Smalljon Umber39.Jojen by CotF49.Dareon by Arya (He deserted so by Westerosi law he was condemned to die)60.Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar(Accident)40.Jon by Bowen54.Quentyn by Rhaegar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeyed chicken Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 more to add:70. Pate by Jaqen.71. High Septon #1 by mob72. High Septon #2 by Osny Kettleblack73. guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya There is a fine line between murder and slaughter. When Arya killed the guardsman at Harenhal, that, to me is murder. It was planned (malice aforethought), where the stable boy she killed at KL was self defense/surprise.Anyway,I trust you all will sort this out well, I'm going to get in bed and read ADWD (again). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Some of these I think we can combineSepta Mordane and Vayan Poole with Stark HouseholdDacey Mormont, SmallJon Umber, and Robb Stark's army by Walder and Co. Anyways, my actual list. 5. Waymar Royce by the Others13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)49. Dareon by Arya53. Insurer by Arya68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Some of these I think we can combineSepta Mordane and Vayan Poole with Stark HouseholdDacey Mormont, SmallJon Umber, and Robb Stark's army by Walder and Co. Anyways, my actual list. 5. Waymar Royce by the Others13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)49. Dareon by Arya53. Insurer by Arya68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.I would agree to all of this.ETA: except I would switch out #13 for #16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomi Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm posting the list again, to change Massa Heddle into Masha Heddle and Raff the Sweetling into the Tickler (Raff surely killed many villagers, too, but I wasn't more upset and disgusted by him than by most of the Montain's men, whereas torturing people to death seemed more noteworthy to me) and to add the ideas of HC (except High Septon by mob, that's already in the list (#18)).And thinking about the Red Wedding, Jinglebell came to my mind, so I added that, too. 1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch5. Waymar Royce by the Others6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei7. Micah the butchers boy by the Hound8. Lady by Ned9. Jory Cassel by Jamies men10. Septa Mordane by Lannister guardsmen11. Vayan Poole by12. Entire Stark household in KL by13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey14. Daenerys unborn son by MMD (iffy)15. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)16. MMD by Daenerys17. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby18. High Septon #1 by the KL mob19. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & several of his men20. Robb by Walder & co.21. Catelyn by22. Greywind by23. Dacey Mormont by24. Smalljon Umber by25. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF26. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF27. 2 millers boys by Theon & co.28. Tywin by Tyrion29. Shae by Tyrion30. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.31. Lyssa Arryn by LF32. Marillion by LFs men33. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.34. Maester Luwin by35. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW36. Craster by37. Pycelle by Varys38. Kevan Lannister by Varys39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )41. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole42. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)43. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen44. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)45. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)46. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain47. Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)49. Dareon by Arya50. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya51. Weese by Jaqen/Arya52. The Tickler by Arya53. Insurer by Arya54. Hazzea by Drogon54. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegar55. Victarion's third wife by Victarion56. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders57. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby58. Rattleshirt by Mel59. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling60. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar61. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake62. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay63. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay64. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters65. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys66. Robb Stark's army by Frey & Bolton armies67. Masha Heddle by Lannister men68. Some villagers by the Tickler69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.70. Pate by Jaqen.71. High Septon #2 by Osny Kettleblack72. Guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya73. Aegon 'Jinglebell" Frey by Catelyn Stark That gives us 13 to remove or merge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 If we are doing novellas then I would suggest: Prince Baelor by his brother Prince Maekar Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake (survives the entire battle only to get killed in the end I believe.) Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other. Maekar did not murder Baelor. It was an accident/manslaughter at worst and it was during a fight; murder implies intention. I don't remember what happened to Roger of Pennytree, but death in battle is not murder, unless we're talking about a Mandon Moore-tries-to-murder Tyrion type situation. Actually, I would call that "Robert Baratheon by a boar with the aid of Robert Baratheon, Lancel Lannister and Cersei Lannister". :D :bowdown: My interpretation of the theme was that we vote for murders that we find morally most wrong. It's "Murder most foul" after all, not "Favourite murder". Then the murder of little Jahaerys by Blood and Cheese on Daemon's order definitely should be there. That was really awful in so many ways. Aegon II's murder of Rhaenyra via his dragon Sunfyre was also pretty bad: although they had been enemies involved in a power struggle, she was helpless and siccing your dragon on your sister to eat her in front of her own child is really sick. Some of those on the list, like Daenerys' mercy-killing of vegetable!Drogo, shouldn't be there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm posting the list again, to change Massa Heddle into Masha Heddle and Raff the Sweetling into the Tickler (Raff surely killed many villagers, too, but I wasn't more upset and disgusted by him than by most of the Montain's men, whereas torturing people to death seemed more noteworthy to me) and to add the ideas of HC (except High Septon by mob, that's already in the list (#18)).And thinking about the Red Wedding, Jinglebell came to my mind, so I added that, too. There are some more typos here - the butcher's boy's name is Mycah; it's Ilyn Payne with one L; Jeyne's dad was called Vayon Poole; "Rhaegal" instead of "Rhaegar"; "miller's boys", "Jamie's men". I would definitely not count: Drogo by Daenerys (mercy-killing, he was a vegetable)Baelor by Maekar (not a murder)Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal/Hazzea by Drogon (they're animals, are you really going to judge them by the same standards as a Homo Sapiens?)Jon Snow (attempted murder)Jojen (not proven)Daenerys unborn son by MMD (yes, it's iffy, even though I think she was responsible)Waymar Royce by the OthersCraster (the bastard deserved it :D)Chiswyck, Weese by Jaqen/Arya/The Tickler by Arya (see Craster)...Come to think of it, I could exclude quite a few this way... :D Several of these can be merged - all the noblemen who were killed by various anonymous Freys at the Red Wedding, members of the Stark household by Lannister men... Also, the two miller's boys were murdered by Ramsay Snow (posing as Reek) and Theon (Ramsay did the deed and probably suggested it, Theon agreed to it and he was technically the one with the authority to say yes). We don't know if anyone else participated. And yes, Raff the Sweetling killed Lommy; but the Tickler and the Mountain himself were the main guys in the torture of villagers (though others obviously participated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomi Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Several of these can be merged - all the noblemen who were killed by various anonymous Freys at the Red Wedding, members of the Stark household by Lannister men... I second this. Apart from this I'll write a more elaborate answer later when I have more time, maybe today but might also have to wait till tomorrow, so I hope you don't start the games this afternoon :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 What about this? I think I combined all suggested & fixed the typos but please double check me.I think we have to agree that we have a list ready to start removing things from before we start voting things off. Otherwise the list keeps changing & therefore votes will keep changing. So if this list is acceptable to start removing things from we can start over with the votes & vote to remove 7. If this list still needs more tweaking we should make those changes prior to voting to remove. 1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch5. Waymar Royce by the Others6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei7. Mycah the butchers boy by the Hound8. Lady by Ned9. Jory Cassel by Jaime's men10. Entire Stark household in KL by Lannister men11. Ned by Ilyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey12. Rhaego by MMD (iffy)13. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)14. MMD by Daenerys15. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby16. High Septon #1 by the KL mob17. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & Co.18. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF19. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF20. 2 Miller's boys by Reek/Ramsay & Co. 21. Tywin by Tyrion22. Shae by Tyrion23. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.24. Lysa Arryn by LF25. Marillion by LFs men26. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.27. Maester Luwin by Reek/Ramsay & Co.28. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW29. Craster by members of the NW30. Pycelle by Varys31. Kevan Lannister by Varys32. Jojen by CotF (speculative)33. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )34. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole35. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)36. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen37. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)38. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)39. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain40. Robert Baratheon by boar41. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)42. Dareon by Arya43. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya44. Weese by Jaqen/Arya45. The Tickler by Arya46. Insurer by Arya47. Hazzea by Drogon48. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal49. Victarion's third wife by Victarion50. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders51. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby52. Rattleshirt by Mel53. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling54. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar55. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake56. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay57. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay58. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters59. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys60. Attendants of the RW by Frey & Bolton men61. Masha Heddle by Lannister men62. Some villagers by the Tickler63. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.64. Pate by Jaqen65. High Septon #2 by Osney Kettleblack66. Guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya67. Aegon 'Jinglebell" Frey by Catelyn StarkETA: I agree there are several on the list that don't qualify as foul murders. We can remove them in the voting off. The only other option I see is to debate it out with whoever suggested it be on the list in the first place &/or who ever agrees it should be there. Which would take a while. I would rather just vote to remove 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Just wanted to say the list looks good so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 If this list is the one we want to start removing things from I would vote to remove the following 7:13. Drogo by Daenerys29. Craster by members of the NW32. Jojen by CotF33. Jon by Marsh & Co.43. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya44. Weese by Jaqen/Arya45. The Tickler by Arya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We are voting for 6? Then I vote to remove: Drogo by DaenerysJojen by CotF (we have too many real murders to include speculation)Hazzea by DrogonQuentyn Martell by Rhaegal ^ those I think don't belong there at all. Then there are those that are indeed murders, but not really foul. There's a few of those.If I need two more, I'd add: Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya The Tickler by Arya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I counted 67 items so I voted for 7 to remove. 5. Waymar Royce by the Others32. Jojen by CotF (speculative)33. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )41. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)47. Hazzea by Drogon48. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal54. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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