NEW ASOIAF EG VOTING THREAD

[yomi]

Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar

Actually, I would call that "Robert Baratheon by a boar with the aid of Robert Baratheon, Lancel Lannister and Cersei Lannister".

Good ones!

except we shouldn't take any TWOW ones and Ser Hugh was not murdered. Not technically, at least.

Technically a lot of people in the list weren't murdered but executed. If you count that as murder, you can surely count this murder disguised as a tourney accident.

I don't think we should use Balon, Jojen or Jon.

Balon being murdered is only a theory.

Jojen only died in the show (Not sure if this is going to be book only)

Jon is at best attempted murder. The text is ambiguous enough that it could go either way.

:agree:

Goat herder's son by Drogon (Does that count as a murder?)

Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal

Victarion's third wife by Victarion

Maester Kerwin by Victarion's crew at his orders

Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby

Rattleshirt by Melisandre

Lommy Greenhands by Raff the Sweetling

Very good ones! Only one correction: Drogon killed the goat herder's daughter, Hazzea.

Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other.

:agree:

More ideas (I start to get the feeling we can easily get 90 options):

• Donella Hornwood by Ramsay Snow

Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, two Jeynes and many other women by Ramsay Snow

163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters

163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys Targaryen

Robb Stark's army by the Freys' and Boltons' army

Masha Heddle by Lannister men

Some villagers by the Tickler

The inhabitant of Saltpans by Rorge & Co

Lots of other smallfolk...

[Lord Lyman]

I think we need to get a clear understanding of what the topic is going to be. If we are approaching 90 options then it justs seema like we are naming every murder in the books and alot of them aren't real "foul" in my book.

like

Lord Lyman Darry by Gregor Clegane

The two that Loras slew after renly died.

[PancakeMountainThatRides]

My question is, is it just our favorite methods of killing or is it killings we find particularly bad or what? I think a lot of those on there aren't really that awful if it's really the most "foul" murder. Like are we supposed to feel bad for Craster? But if we're going by favorite killings, it'd be pretty awful if people voted for Rhaenys.

Just asking for clarification.

ETA: pretty much what Lyman asked right before me >.>

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm just going by if the killing felt 'foul' or wrong to me. I understand that's a matter of opinion but that's what makes this game fun :)

I suggest we add every one that anybody has suggested, decide what # we are going to play with (if we are over 90 play with 90, if under 90 play with 60 etc) & then have everyone vote off the correct # of murders.

ETA: I think it's ok if some on the list don't feel foul to some people, they will get taken out when we vote off if enough people agree (I would highly doubt Craster would make it to our final list)

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

If we are doing novellas then I would suggest:

Prince Baelor by his brother Prince Maekar

Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake (survives the entire battle only to get killed in the end I believe.)

Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling

Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other.

Also I would second to add these except Roger of Pennytree (I wouldn't vote to not add him I just can't remember him :dunce:)

[yomi]

My interpretation of the theme was that we vote for murders that we find morally most wrong. It's "Murder most foul" after all, not "Favourite murder".

But opinions about which murder is the worst may vary quiet a lot. Which for example is more foul, Ned's or Rattleshirt's? Ned was presented to us as a morally fine character, his death as a bad event, but he was beheaded with a Valarian steel sword, maybe the swiftest killing method they have in Westeros. Rattleshirt on the other hand seemed a quiet despicable person and his death not a big loss and probably even deserved, but he was condemned to a cruel death by burning.

By Westerosi morals, Craster's murder might be considered quiet foul because it happened under sacred guest (or in this case host) right :dunno:

Then again we have enough murders on this list where the victim was someone we wished no bad AND the murder itself was horrible and cruel, so I expect all the examples I mentioned above to be voted off quiet quickly.

But, as Lyanna<3Rhaegar said, let's wait with the voting off until we are finished with adding.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I think I've added everything that anyone has suggested. I would vote to leave it & start voting off 9 rather than try to reach 90. I think we already have some most people will agree to remove & if we try to reach 90 we are going to just putting in fillers that will be removed early in the games.

Of course that's just my opinion. If you all think we should continue adding suggest away :)

1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys

2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys

3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain

4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch

5. Waymar Royce by the Others

6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei

7. Micah the butchers boy by the Hound

8. Lady by Ned

9. Jory Cassel by Jamies men

10. Septa Mordane by Lannister guardsmen

11. Vayan Poole by

12. Entire Stark household in KL by

13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey

14. Daenerys unborn son by MMD (iffy)

15. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)

16. MMD by Daenerys

17. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby

18. The High Septon by the mob

19. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & several of his men

20. Robb by Walder & co.

21. Catelyn by

22. Greywind by

23. Dacey Mormont by

24. Smalljon Umber by

25. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF

26. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF

27. 2 millers boys by Theon & co.

28. Tywin by Tyrion

29. Shae by Tyrion

30. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.

31. Lyssa Arryn by LF

32. Marillion by LFs men

33. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.

34. Maester Luwin by

35. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW

36. Craster by

37. Pycelle by Varys

38. Kevan Lannister by Varys

39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)

40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )

41. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole

42. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)

43. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen

44. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)

45. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)

46. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain

47. Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar

48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)

49. Dareon by Arya

50. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya

51. Weese by Jaqen/Arya

52. The Tickler by Arya

53. Insurer by Arya

54. Hazzea by Drogon

54. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegar

55. Victarion's third wife by Victarion

56. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders

57. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby

58. Rattleshirt by Mel

59. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling

60. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar

61. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake

62. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay

63. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay

64. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters

65. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys

66. Robb Stark's army by Frey & Bolton armies

67. Massa Heddle by Lannister men

68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling

69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.

[Ser Gerold Dayne]

My nine would be

8.lady by Ned

15.Drogo by Daenerys

23.Dacey Mormont

24.Smalljon Umber

39.Jojen by CotF

49.Dareon by Arya (He deserted so by Westerosi law he was condemned to die)

60.Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar(Accident)

40.Jon by Bowen

54.Quentyn by Rhaegar

[honeyed chicken]

more to add:

70. Pate by Jaqen.

71. High Septon #1 by mob

72. High Septon #2 by Osny Kettleblack

73. guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya

There is a fine line between murder and slaughter. When Arya killed the guardsman at Harenhal, that, to me is murder. It was planned (malice aforethought), where the stable boy she killed at KL was self defense/surprise.

Anyway,

I trust you all will sort this out well, I'm going to get in bed and read ADWD (again). :)

[Lord Lyman]

Some of these I think we can combine
Septa Mordane and Vayan Poole with Stark Household

Dacey Mormont, SmallJon Umber, and Robb Stark's army by Walder and Co.

Anyways, my actual list.

5. Waymar Royce by the Others
13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey
39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)
40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )
48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)
49. Dareon by Arya
53. Insurer by Arya
68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling
69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Some of these I think we can combine

Septa Mordane and Vayan Poole with Stark Household

Dacey Mormont, SmallJon Umber, and Robb Stark's army by Walder and Co.

Anyways, my actual list.

5. Waymar Royce by the Others

13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey

39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)

40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )

48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)

49. Dareon by Arya

53. Insurer by Arya

68. Some villagers by Raff the Sweetling

69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.

I would agree to all of this.

ETA: except I would switch out #13 for #16

[yomi]

I'm posting the list again, to change Massa Heddle into Masha Heddle and Raff the Sweetling into the Tickler (Raff surely killed many villagers, too, but I wasn't more upset and disgusted by him than by most of the Montain's men, whereas torturing people to death seemed more noteworthy to me) and to add the ideas of HC (except High Septon by mob, that's already in the list (#18)).

And thinking about the Red Wedding, Jinglebell came to my mind, so I added that, too.

1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys
2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys
3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain
4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch
5. Waymar Royce by the Others
6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei
7. Micah the butchers boy by the Hound
8. Lady by Ned
9. Jory Cassel by Jamies men
10. Septa Mordane by Lannister guardsmen
11. Vayan Poole by
12. Entire Stark household in KL by
13. Ned by Illyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey
14. Daenerys unborn son by MMD (iffy)
15. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)
16. MMD by Daenerys
17. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby
18. High Septon #1 by the KL mob
19. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & several of his men
20. Robb by Walder & co.
21. Catelyn by
22. Greywind by
23. Dacey Mormont by
24. Smalljon Umber by
25. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF
26. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF
27. 2 millers boys by Theon & co.
28. Tywin by Tyrion
29. Shae by Tyrion
30. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.
31. Lyssa Arryn by LF
32. Marillion by LFs men
33. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.
34. Maester Luwin by
35. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW
36. Craster by
37. Pycelle by Varys
38. Kevan Lannister by Varys
39. Jojen by CotF (speculative)
40. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )
41. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole
42. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)
43. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen
44. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)
45. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)
46. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain
47. Robert Baratheon by Lancel with the aid of a boar
48. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)
49. Dareon by Arya
50. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya
51. Weese by Jaqen/Arya
52. The Tickler by Arya
53. Insurer by Arya
54. Hazzea by Drogon
54. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegar
55. Victarion's third wife by Victarion
56. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders
57. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby
58. Rattleshirt by Mel
59. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling
60. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar
61. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake
62. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay
63. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay
64. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters
65. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys
66. Robb Stark's army by Frey & Bolton armies
67. Masha Heddle by Lannister men
68. Some villagers by the Tickler
69. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.

70. Pate by Jaqen.

71. High Septon #2 by Osny Kettleblack

72. Guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya

73. Aegon 'Jinglebell" Frey by Catelyn Stark

That gives us 13 to remove or merge.

[Annara Snow]

If we are doing novellas then I would suggest:

Prince Baelor by his brother Prince Maekar

Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake (survives the entire battle only to get killed in the end I believe.)

Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling

Tion and Willem should be kept together, there is really no difference that distinguishes one murder worse then the other.

Maekar did not murder Baelor. It was an accident/manslaughter at worst and it was during a fight; murder implies intention.

I don't remember what happened to Roger of Pennytree, but death in battle is not murder, unless we're talking about a Mandon Moore-tries-to-murder Tyrion type situation.

Actually, I would call that "Robert Baratheon by a boar with the aid of Robert Baratheon, Lancel Lannister and Cersei Lannister".

:D :bowdown:

My interpretation of the theme was that we vote for murders that we find morally most wrong. It's "Murder most foul" after all, not "Favourite murder".

Then the murder of little Jahaerys by Blood and Cheese on Daemon's order definitely should be there. That was really awful in so many ways.

Aegon II's murder of Rhaenyra via his dragon Sunfyre was also pretty bad: although they had been enemies involved in a power struggle, she was helpless and siccing your dragon on your sister to eat her in front of her own child is really sick.

Some of those on the list, like Daenerys' mercy-killing of vegetable!Drogo, shouldn't be there at all.

[Annara Snow]

I'm posting the list again, to change Massa Heddle into Masha Heddle and Raff the Sweetling into the Tickler (Raff surely killed many villagers, too, but I wasn't more upset and disgusted by him than by most of the Montain's men, whereas torturing people to death seemed more noteworthy to me) and to add the ideas of HC (except High Septon by mob, that's already in the list (#18)).

And thinking about the Red Wedding, Jinglebell came to my mind, so I added that, too.

There are some more typos here - the butcher's boy's name is Mycah; it's Ilyn Payne with one L; Jeyne's dad was called Vayon Poole; "Rhaegal" instead of "Rhaegar"; "miller's boys", "Jamie's men".

I would definitely not count:

Drogo by Daenerys (mercy-killing, he was a vegetable)

Baelor by Maekar (not a murder)

Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal/

Hazzea by Drogon (they're animals, are you really going to judge them by the same standards as a Homo Sapiens?)

Jon Snow (attempted murder)

Jojen (not proven)

Daenerys unborn son by MMD (yes, it's iffy, even though I think she was responsible)

Waymar Royce by the Others

Craster (the bastard deserved it :D)

Chiswyck, Weese by Jaqen/Arya/The Tickler by Arya (see Craster)

...Come to think of it, I could exclude quite a few this way... :D

Several of these can be merged - all the noblemen who were killed by various anonymous Freys at the Red Wedding, members of the Stark household by Lannister men...

Also, the two miller's boys were murdered by Ramsay Snow (posing as Reek) and Theon (Ramsay did the deed and probably suggested it, Theon agreed to it and he was technically the one with the authority to say yes). We don't know if anyone else participated.

And yes, Raff the Sweetling killed Lommy; but the Tickler and the Mountain himself were the main guys in the torture of villagers (though others obviously participated).

[yomi]

Several of these can be merged - all the noblemen who were killed by various anonymous Freys at the Red Wedding, members of the Stark household by Lannister men...

I second this.

Apart from this I'll write a more elaborate answer later when I have more time, maybe today but might also have to wait till tomorrow, so I hope you don't start the games this afternoon :)

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

What about this? I think I combined all suggested & fixed the typos but please double check me.

I think we have to agree that we have a list ready to start removing things from before we start voting things off. Otherwise the list keeps changing & therefore votes will keep changing.

So if this list is acceptable to start removing things from we can start over with the votes & vote to remove 7.

If this list still needs more tweaking we should make those changes prior to voting to remove.

1. Brandon Stark by gold cloaks on order from King Aerys

2. Rickard Stark by pyromancers on orders from King Aerys

3. Elia Martell Targaryen and her son (?) Aegon by the Mountain

4. Rhaenys Targaryen by Amory Lorch

5. Waymar Royce by the Others

6. Jon Arryn by Lysa Arryn with assist from Pycelle & Cersei

7. Mycah the butchers boy by the Hound

8. Lady by Ned

9. Jory Cassel by Jaime's men

10. Entire Stark household in KL by Lannister men

11. Ned by Ilyn Payne on orders from King Joffrey

12. Rhaego by MMD (iffy)

13. Drogo by Daenerys (you might call it a mercy killing or whatever, still technically murder)

14. MMD by Daenerys

15. Renly by Melisandres shadow baby

16. High Septon #1 by the KL mob

17. Tion Frey & Willem Lannister by Rickard Karstark & Co.

18. Joffrey by Lady O w/assist from LF

19. Dontos Hollard by one of LFs men on orders from LF

20. 2 Miller's boys by Reek/Ramsay & Co.

21. Tywin by Tyrion

22. Shae by Tyrion

23. Merrett Frey by Lady Stoneheart & co.

24. Lysa Arryn by LF

25. Marillion by LFs men

26. Rodrik Cassel by Reek Snow/Bolton & co.

27. Maester Luwin by Reek/Ramsay & Co.

28. Jeor Mormont by members of the NW

29. Craster by members of the NW

30. Pycelle by Varys

31. Kevan Lannister by Varys

32. Jojen by CotF (speculative)

33. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )

34. Lord Lyman Beesbury by Ser Criston Cole

35. Little Jahaerys Targaryen (Aegon II' and Haelena's son) by Blood and Cheese (on orders from Daemon Targaryen)

36. Luke (Lucaerys) Targaryen by Aemond Targaryen

37. Rhaenyra Targaryen by Aegon II (via his dragon Sunfyre)

38. Laenor Vaelaryon by Qarl Corey (his lover)

39. Ser Hugh of the Vale by The Mountain

40. Robert Baratheon by boar

41. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)

42. Dareon by Arya

43. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya

44. Weese by Jaqen/Arya

45. The Tickler by Arya

46. Insurer by Arya

47. Hazzea by Drogon

48. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal

49. Victarion's third wife by Victarion

50. Maester Kerwin by Vic's crew on his orders

51. Cortnay Penrose by shadow baby

52. Rattleshirt by Mel

53. Lommy Greenhands by Raff The Sweetling

54. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar

55. Roger of Pennytree by Lord Gorman Peake

56. Donella Hornwood by Ramsay

57. Kyra, Helicent, Jez, Alison, Maude, Sara, Willow, 2 Jeynes & many other woman by Ramsay

58. 163 slave children on orders of the Great Masters

59. 163 Great Masters on orders of Daenerys

60. Attendants of the RW by Frey & Bolton men

61. Masha Heddle by Lannister men

62. Some villagers by the Tickler

63. Inhabitants of the Saltpans by Rorge & co.

64. Pate by Jaqen

65. High Septon #2 by Osney Kettleblack

66. Guardsman at Harrenhal by Arya

67. Aegon 'Jinglebell" Frey by Catelyn Stark

ETA: I agree there are several on the list that don't qualify as foul murders. We can remove them in the voting off. The only other option I see is to debate it out with whoever suggested it be on the list in the first place &/or who ever agrees it should be there. Which would take a while. I would rather just vote to remove 7.

[Kyoshi]

Just wanted to say the list looks good so far.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

If this list is the one we want to start removing things from I would vote to remove the following 7:

13. Drogo by Daenerys

29. Craster by members of the NW

32. Jojen by CotF

33. Jon by Marsh & Co.

43. Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya

44. Weese by Jaqen/Arya

45. The Tickler by Arya

[Annara Snow]

We are voting for 6? Then I vote to remove:

Drogo by Daenerys

Jojen by CotF (we have too many real murders to include speculation)

Hazzea by Drogon
Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal

^ those I think don't belong there at all.

Then there are those that are indeed murders, but not really foul. There's a few of those.

If I need two more, I'd add:

Chiswyck by Jaqen/Arya
The Tickler by Arya

[Lord Lyman]

I counted 67 items so I voted for 7 to remove.

5. Waymar Royce by the Others
32. Jojen by CotF (speculative)
33. Jon by Bowen Marsh and co. (may not be dead, but not for lack of trying . . . )
41. Balon Greyjoy by a faceless man (probably)
47. Hazzea by Drogon
48. Quentyn Martell by Rhaegal
54. Prince Baelor by Prince Maekar