Small questions v. 10085

[mushroomshirt]

I might be making this up, but doesn't Arya at one point wonder if they really would let her go if she wanted to?

I think you are making that up. :)

[HexMachina]

If marrying brother-sister is a Valyrian custom, do the Velaryons and Celtigars also practice this custom? Or was it just the dragon riding families?

[Consigliere]

If marrying brother-sister is a Valyrian custom, do the Velaryons and Celtigars also practice this custom? Or was it just the dragon riding families?

The WoIaF sample suggests it was just the dragonlords. I don't think we have any examples of Velaryon's and Celtigars's marrying brother to sister.

It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure

[HexMachina]

The WoIaF sample suggests it was just the dragonlords. I don't think we have any examples of Velaryon's and Celtigars's marrying brother to sister.

It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure

Thanks, I didn't think they did but then I was reading the appendices and under the Old Targaryen dynasty it mentioned incest as a Valyrian custom, rather than just Dragonlords. I assume it probably just one of those things where it became clearer as GRRM built up the history.

[The Bedding]

As late as Arya's last Dance chapter (the ugly little girl) when the kindly man and the waif bring her down to look at the faces, she has the opportunity to leave. The kindly man says something like: it is not too late to leave us.

ETA:

Here's the exact quote (p. 842 in my kindle edition):

"Do they frighten you, child?" asked the kindly man. "It is not too late for you to leave us. Is this truly what you want?"

So it means there must be a point where it is too late to leave?

Edit: changed comma to question mark

[stateofdissipation]

So it means there must be a point where it is too late to leave?

Edit: changed comma to question mark

Or a point where she will no longer wish to leave. Arya was still before the point of no return does not necessarily mean that after that point somebody will stand in the way...

Nobody stops a plane from turning around from 3/4 the way across the pacific, they just don't have the gas to get back. 7000 mile range at 3501 miles out they are not getting back.

[Ali Colak]

I've seen statements on the wiki and here on the forums indicating that the religion of the Old Gods has mysteries and lore that are only taught to its worshipers, that their gods might even have names. Is there any textual basis to any of this?

Thanks

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I've seen statements on the wiki and here on the forums indicating that the religion of the Old Gods has mysteries and lore that are only taught to its worshipers, that their gods might even have names. Is there any textual basis to any of this?

Have you got a link or two?

[three-eyed monkey]

I've seen statements on the wiki and here on the forums indicating that the religion of the Old Gods has mysteries and lore that are only taught to its worshipers, that their gods might even have names. Is there any textual basis to any of this?

Thanks

I've seen it mentioned in the wiki that the old gods are animistic in nature. If that is the case then every tree, animal, rock, river, and forces like the wind, etc, would have their own soul or spiritual essence, and therefore it's own name. I disagree with this, however. We have seen through Bloodraven and Bran that all things are connected, or perhaps have a common source, and for me that says pantheist, in which case one name would suffice, or indeed no name would be required. But as a pantheist, I'm biased.

[Ali Colak]

I've seen it mentioned in the wiki that the old gods are animistic in nature. If that is the case then every tree, animal, rock, river, and forces like the wind, etc, would have their own soul or spiritual essence, and therefore it's own name. I disagree with this, however. We have seen through Bloodraven and Bran that all things are connected, or perhaps have a common source, and for me that says pantheist, in which case one name would suffice, or indeed no name would be required. But as a pantheist, I'm biased.

I thought so.

[Ali Colak]

Jon Weirgaryen, on 26 Jul 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Have you got a link or two?

I wish, but I can't remember where I first heard any of this, just that I did hear it somewhere. There are always people projecting their own ideas on to the ASOIAF universe, and this is probably one such example.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

I think it might have been, at a time, the old gods might have had names. They still have, you could call them weirwood, or just trees. Here is some stuff by @Bran Vras that I enjoyed reading:

• The Immortals
  
• The Congresses of Skulls
  

[HexMachina]

But the Old Gods are actually the Greenseers no?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

But the Old Gods are actually the Greenseers no?

I try getting close to the truth we cannot fathom: Probably a single greenseer cannot control the Weirwood winternet alone. So either the Weirwood winternet is a proper internet that would be working on its own. Or on account of greenseers long dead still working it. That'd be immortals... gods.

[three-eyed monkey]

But the Old Gods are actually the Greenseers no?

I see the greenseers as sort of conduits between the source and the world, which is a product of the source. They, like every man, tree, raven, wolf, etc., are connected to the source, and indeed are part of the source, except they have the latent ability and acquired understanding to use that connection. So in short, yes, the greenseers, as part of the source, are the gods, but so is every man and tree and raven and wolf in a hermetic way, though they may not be aware of it. That's just how I see it personally, and admittedly through the lens of my own belief.

[ser naes yennet]

I think the Tyrells wouldn't have agreed to the murder until after they learned what Joffrey was life. Its a big risk for no real reward otherwise. Hence the scene where Marg and Olenna ask Sansa about Joffrey.

Edit: If I had to guess, I'd say that after LF told Cersei about the Tyrell plot to marry Sansa to Willas, he went to Olenna and told them if they want Sansa's marriage annulled and the monster Marg was gonna marry out of the picture, he had a perfect solution to both.

but Tyrion's actions at the wedding, which caused him to get the blame, was just gravy, wasn't it? no one could have known that Joff would have made Tyrion his cup bearer. so i was wondering what the plan was for placing blame after it happened?

[Stannisaurus2]

Why would LS let Brienne go? What guarantees did she had that she will keep her word and bring her Jamie? SImply because she holds Podric and that other guy? Even if Brienne cares about Podric, I doubt she cares more about him than Jamie (and BwB know this since she was talking about Jamie when she was hallucinating). Especially if LS assumes that Brienne is a turncloak without honor for siding with the Lannisters, what possible reasons could she (and the rest of BwB) have to believe that she will be honest now?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Why would LS let Brienne go? What guarantees did she had that she will keep her word and bring her Jamie? SImply because she holds Podric and that other guy? Even if Brienne cares about Podric, I doubt she cares more about him than Jamie (and BwB know this since she was talking about Jamie when she was hallucinating). Especially if LS assumes that Brienne is a turncloak without honor for siding with the Lannisters, what possible reasons could she (and the rest of BwB) have to believe that she will be honest now?

Frankly, I think the sword and pod are enough.

but Tyrion's actions at the wedding, which caused him to get the blame, was just gravy, wasn't it? no one could have known that Joff would have made Tyrion his cup bearer. so i was wondering what the plan was for placing blame after it happened?

LF arranged for the jousting dwarves, and Cersei's hatred of Tyrion was not a secret.

I've seen statements on the wiki and here on the forums indicating that the religion of the Old Gods has mysteries and lore that are only taught to its worshipers, that their gods might even have names. Is there any textual basis to any of this?

Thanks

I think the issue here is your confusing which "old gods" because there are actually gods that are older in terms of humans worshipping them than the "old gods" The first men worshipped the storm god and drowned god and we here on the sisters that they had gods like that as well. These are the "old old gods" for lack of a better term, and they do teach names and seem to be more localized.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Why were the Celtigars with the Targs on dragonstone? I know that the Valyrons were their stewards, but what were the Celtigars to them?

[Nozlym]

Why were the Celtigars with the Targs on dragonstone? I know that the Valyrons were their stewards, but what were the Celtigars to them?

i believe they were just another family that left valyria when the targaryens left