Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can a FM leave the Guild? Like a priest leaving his vows and church? I don't remember any pros or cons from the text. However, I have an unreasonable gut feeling they can. Dwelling on that, I found a pretty reasoning: To be an instrument of Him of the many faces, you need to give up everything, your worldly self and worldly life. If you fail that path, you would have automatically left the service. More reasoning is, as long as you don't talk about the cult, nor work against it or it's rules, you cannot betray it. Now I have a small question: Wasn't Arya aware of any sanctions against her, should she try to leave before being fully initiated? Or was it the opposite, was she granted freedom in that case? Need to re-read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mychel_Redfort Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Viserys calls her that one time : aGoT 46 At the last, Viserys looked at her. "Sister, please... Dany, tell them... make them... sweet sister..." When the gold was half melted and starting to run, Drogo reached into the flames, snatched out the pot. "Crown!" he roared. "Here. A crown for Cart King!" And upended the pot over the head of the man who had been her brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 More reasoning is, as long as you don't talk about the cult, nor work against it or it's rules, you cannot betray it. Now I have a small question: Wasn't Arya aware of any sanctions against her, should she try to leave before being fully initiated? Or was it the opposite, was she granted freedom in that case? Need to re-read... I'm not sure if I understand your question properly, but I'll give it a go. The Kindly Man offers her several times before her "real" training begins that she can leave the House of Black and White. I don't think he offers her that option after her first hit though. I can't imagine she would just be free to leave and go where she wants with that knowledge, it kind of ruins the Faceless Men's secrecy ETA: some quotes Arya II, aFfC “I don’t smell anything,” she said, to see what he would say. “You lie,” he said, “but you may keep your secrets if you wish, Arya of House Stark.” He only called her that when she displeased him. “You know that you may leave this place. You are not one of us, not yet. You may go home anytime you wish.” “You told me that if I left, I couldn’t come back.”“Just so.” The implication here is that she can leave before she becomes one of them, but not after. “Why would you wish to fight? Are you some bravo, strutting through the alleys, spoiling for blood?” He sighed. “Before you drink from the cold cup, you must offer up all you are to Him of Many Faces. Your body. Your soul. Yourself. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, you must leave this place.” “You believe this is the only place for you.” It was as if he’d heard her thoughts. “You are wrong in that. You would find softer service in the household of some merchant. Or would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty? Speak the word, and we will send you to the Black Pearl or the Daughter of the Dusk. You will sleep on rose petals and wear silken skirts that rustle when you walk, and great lords will beggar themselves for your maiden’s blood. Or if it is marriage and children you desire, tell me, and we shall find a husband for you. Some honest apprentice boy, a rich old man, a seafarer, whatever you desire.” s it Westeros you dream of, child? Luco Prestayn’s Lady Bright leaves upon the morrow, for Gulltown, Duskendale, King’s Landing, and Tyrosh. Shall we find you passage on her?” Funnily enough, once she starts training with them, she is not offered these options again. Even when she goes against the rules and kills Dareon, she is not offered the option of leaving. I guess they aren't open to people leaving once they start their training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Death Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Now I have a small question: Wasn't Arya aware of any sanctions against her, should she try to leave before being fully initiated? Or was it the opposite, was she granted freedom in that case? Need to re-read... That's my path of thinking. Why would she hide Needle in first place if she cannot retrieve it and return to her life of a "wolf girl"? Why would she receive such training and become a badass assassin if she isn't brought back to the main story and conflict in Westeros?It'll be interesting to read how George Our Mighty God of the Inkwell brings her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Is Dany ever refered to as Dany by anyone other than herself?Viserys, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm not sure if I understand your question properly, but I'll give it a go. The Kindly Man offers her several times before her "real" training begins that she can leave the House of Black and White. I don't think he offers her that option after her first hit though. I can't imagine she would just be free to leave and go where she wants with that knowledge, it kind of ruins the Faceless Men's secrecy ETA: some quotes Arya II, aFfC The implication here is that she can leave before she becomes one of them, but not after. Funnily enough, once she starts training with them, she is not offered these options again. Even when she goes against the rules and kills Dareon, she is not offered the option of leaving. I guess they aren't open to people leaving once they start their training Reminds me of the wall, Jon could have left up until he said his vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm not sure if I understand your question properly, but I'll give it a go. The Kindly Man offers her several times before her "real" training begins that she can leave the House of Black and White. I don't think he offers her that option after her first hit though. I can't imagine she would just be free to leave and go where she wants with that knowledge, it kind of ruins the Faceless Men's secrecy ETA: some quotes[...]Funnily enough, once she starts training with them, she is not offered these options again. Even when she goes against the rules and kills Dareon, she is not offered the option of leaving. I guess they aren't open to people leaving once they start their training Sorry for being barely comprehensible, have returned drugged from a dentist's mayhem.You have answered my question - very well done, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellstiltskin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can someone help me out with the timeline of the last two books? I thought GRRM mentioned that the books' run concurrently up until some point around the middle of Dance when the plot moves past FfC...Does anyone know off the top of their heads where this is? I'm also wondering specifically about the False Wedding at WF and Brienne's request for Jaime to come with her at the end of Feast. I'm just wanting to make sure that this happens well before the WF wedding and am too worn to search myself :blushing: Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can someone help me out with the timeline of the last two books? I thought GRRM mentioned that the books' run concurrently up until some point around the middle of Dance when the plot moves past FfC...Does anyone know off the top of their heads where this is? I'm also wondering specifically about the False Wedding at WF and Brienne's request for Jaime to come with her at the end of Feast. I'm just wanting to make sure that this happens well before the WF wedding and am too worn to search myself :blushing: Thanks. Here is a timeline for the books. There may be a few inaccuracies but this is the best timeline I've seen. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can someone help me out with the timeline of the last two books? I thought GRRM mentioned that the books' run concurrently up until some point around the middle of Dance when the plot moves past FfC...Does anyone know off the top of their heads where this is? I'm also wondering specifically about the False Wedding at WF and Brienne's request for Jaime to come with her at the end of Feast. I'm just wanting to make sure that this happens well before the WF wedding and am too worn to search myself :blushing: Thanks. Try this out. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8 ETA: :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I don't remember any pros or cons from the text. However, I have an unreasonable gut feeling they can. Dwelling on that, I found a pretty reasoning: To be an instrument of Him of the many faces, you need to give up everything, your worldly self and worldly life. If you fail that path, you would have automatically left the service. More reasoning is, as long as you don't talk about the cult, nor work against it or it's rules, you cannot betray it. Now I have a small question: Wasn't Arya aware of any sanctions against her, should she try to leave before being fully initiated? Or was it the opposite, was she granted freedom in that case? Need to re-read... To be an instrument of Him of the many faces, you need to give up everything, your worldly self and worldly life. If you fail that path, you would have automatically left the service In training to become a faceless man...you need to give up everything, your worldly self and worldly life. To be an instrument of Him of the many faces JH comments on his father to Arya If you fail that path, you would have automatically left the service One runs in to a similar kind of brainwashing in Army basic training. After training the Army is a completely different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can someone help me out with the timeline of the last two books? I thought GRRM mentioned that the books' run concurrently up until some point around the middle of Dance when the plot moves past FfC...Does anyone know off the top of their heads where this is? I'm also wondering specifically about the False Wedding at WF and Brienne's request for Jaime to come with her at the end of Feast. I'm just wanting to make sure that this happens well before the WF wedding and am too worn to search myself :blushing: Thanks. To know these things off the top of one's head is a bit of a task. Though here are the answers for the timeline. I have a bit to add below: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8 If you want to re-read the books in a timeline-ish way, then there is this: A proposed A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons merged reading order I am quite happy trying it out, but I am a sloooooow reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can someone help me out with the timeline of the last two books? I thought GRRM mentioned that the books' run concurrently up until some point around the middle of Dance when the plot moves past FfC...Does anyone know off the top of their heads where this is? I'm also wondering specifically about the False Wedding at WF and Brienne's request for Jaime to come with her at the end of Feast. I'm just wanting to make sure that this happens well before the WF wedding and am too worn to search myself :blushing: Thanks. Brienne asks Jaime to come with her at the end of ADwD, not AFfC. So you can be pretty sure the fake Arya wedding happened before that. I think those few chapters at the end of ADwD are the chapters GRRM is talking about when he says they pass or merge again with AFfC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Brienne asks Jaime to come with her at the end of ADwD, not AFfC. So you can be pretty sure the fake Arya wedding happened before that. I think those few chapters at the end of ADwD are the chapters GRRM is talking about when he says they pass or merge again with AFfC. The abovementioned timeline has the Brienne-Jaime reunion 5 days after the Ramsay-Jeyne union. However it also has the battle of the ice 6 weeks after the wedding, but we know from the Winterfell Huis Clos that the confinement at Winterfell lasted 4 months 50 days. So there's more work to be done there to wiggle it all out correctly. In the Combined reading the wedding is in C 079 ADwD 37 The Prince of Winterfell whereas Jamie and Brienne meet again in C 095 ADwD 48 Jaime VIII - apparently later. Update: I misremembered. Not 4 months but 50 days. Added a link to "Space - Time - Matter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Does anyone know of a good discussion on Varys' knowledge of the wildfire plot? It seems like something that will have been discussed, but, well, search is not my friend :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Does anyone know of a good discussion on Varys' knowledge of the wildfire plot? It seems like something that will have been discussed, but, well, search is not my friend :dunce: It is a safe assumption that Varys knew. However, what he knew and when is not in the text that I recall. I really wish i had the kindle.... and I could say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Does anyone know of a good discussion on Varys' knowledge of the wildfire plot? It seems like something that will have been discussed, but, well, search is not my friend :dunce:Nothing in the text stating specifically that Varys knew, but the pyromancers were said to have visited the Red Keep day and night. Combine that info with Varys' spy network, and I can't imagine he didn't know.IIRC, even Chelsted knew.Edit: Jaime states that Chelsted had become suspicious, not whether or not he had figured it out. The pyromancers has prepared everything in secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Nothing in the text stating specifically that Varys knew, but the pyromancers were said to have visited the Red Keep day and night. Combine that info with Varys' spy network, and I can't imagine he didn't know.IIRC, even Chelsted knew.Edit: Jaime states that Chelsted had become suspicious, not whether or not he had figured it out. The pyromancers has prepared everything in secret.[/quoteI was more asking for discussions on the forum actually. What Varys thought , how he planned to respond etc. to the Wildfire plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushroomshirt Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Funnily enough, once she starts training with them, she is not offered these options again. Even when she goes against the rules and kills Dareon, she is not offered the option of leaving. I guess they aren't open to people leaving once they start their training As late as Arya's last Dance chapter (the ugly little girl) when the kindly man and the waif bring her down to look at the faces, she has the opportunity to leave. The kindly man says something like: it is not too late to leave us. ETA: Here's the exact quote (p. 842 in my kindle edition): "Do they frighten you, child?" asked the kindly man. "It is not too late for you to leave us. Is this truly what you want?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 As late as Arya's last Dance chapter (the ugly little girl) when the kindly man and the waif bring her down to look at the faces, she has the opportunity to leave. The kindly man says something like: it is not too late to leave us. ETA: Here's the exact quote (p. 842 in my kindle edition): "Do they frighten you, child?" asked the kindly man. "It is not too late for you to leave us. Is this truly what you want?" I might be making this up, but doesn't Arya at one point wonder if they really would let her go if she wanted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.