TWOW "very unlikely" to be released in 2015 - Jane Johnson

[alienarea]

George R.R. Martin Will Sit out Season Five of Game of Thrones to Finish Up His Next Book

A sceptic mind could interpret this as GRRM doesn't write an episode for season five because most of what he wrote for AFFC and ADwD will be cut anyway.

One wonders if he needs inspiration from season six to continue.

[GERM]

This actually seems like good news - when asked if he will visit the set this year, he says probably not, and he isn't making any more trips apart from what he's committed to until the book is finished. He then says he might make it to the set early next year (Calendar year or filming season is unclear) indicates he anticipates (or hopes) the book will be done by then!

In the following video he also notes that he needs to concentrate on *finishing* the book! which is semantically different than concentrating on *writing* the book.

http://www.zap2it.com/videos/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-winds-of-winter-jeyne-westerling-prologue-258382

Also, given Dance's rush to publication, he could still finish it in December or so of this year and have it out before or very soon after the start of S5...he could finish it in April of 2015 and still have it out just after S5 ends...

I truly hope you're correct. I have been burned by Martin too many times in the past to have any sort of confidence in the man.

[protar]

Well if the show does overtake the books I can only hope that D+D will have gone so off the rails that it doesn't spoil anything. At least 2015 hasn't been completely ruled out but it's disappointing to hear this nonetheless.

[CelticKevin]

Hey maybe when she says 2015 is unlikely, she means that 2014 is the possible release date? :dunno:

:crying:

That was my hope beyond hope!

Or better yet, that was my crackpot hope!

[GERM]

Well if the show does overtake the books I can only hope that D+D will have gone so off the rails that it doesn't spoil anything. At least 2015 hasn't been completely ruled out but it's disappointing to hear this nonetheless.

We'll get a fairly accurate ending when it comes to the major characters.

[protar]

We'll get a fairly accurate ending when it comes to the major characters.

They're not even casting all of the major characters it seems. They might claim that they're keeping the ending the same, but they also probably think this is a faithful adaptation right now. I think so long as the broad strokes e.g R+L=J is true, Kingslanding is burned down, Bran wargs a Dragon etc. then they'll consider their duty fulfilled.

It's rather disrespectful to spoil Martin's ending in my opinion but whatever.

[GERM]

Ha. No wonder you're bitter. I only read the books the first season of the show, so I've waited for nothing really except Winds, and have played catch up on all the various machinations and permutations that have occurred over the previous years. But, as I learned more...the picture got grimmer. Such as the increasingly unlikely event that the original trilogy will only be 7 books and not 8 or 9. GRRM history of over promising on timing and all the rest of it.

I had always though the five year gap/meereen knot seemed a little suspect as something that would take YEARS and YEARS of writing to resolve....and so when I got to Dance, and not only was everyone still in Meereen, but people still on their way to Meereen and multiple key people not even having met yet in Essos, I say 'aha' that was not the problem.

I guess it is what it is. He finishes or he doesn't. The next book is meandering and unfocused or it's back to the form of the first three. Nothing anyone can do about any of it.

I wouldn't say bitter. I am just a realistic adult who would be ashamed of himself if he pulled the crap Martin is pulling. I can understand writers block, publishing other novels in-between (Stephen King published 19 novels between book 4 and book 5 of the DT series) or maybe 3 years between books. I can understand simply truly slow writing too. Tom Wolfe’s A Man in Full took him 11 years at 370k. However, even his kids state that he was writing 8 hours a day. Patrick Rothfuss is another one who is slow, but again he writes all day every day and takes 3 weeks off a year. Again though, when they publish books they're fantastic and they're constantly plugging away at the books. Martin's last two are far from that and he definitely isn't plugging away at anything work related unless it's an interview or a trip, any book being at the bottom of that list .

In addition, Martin's credibility is suffering, and rightly so, because he isn't writing at all and it appears as if he is doing everything he possibly can to avoid it. He has stopped writing consistently and his story and his pace have both suffered tremendously.

Stephen King has said numerous times that if an author is taking more than 2 years to finish a 300k book, the author isn't writing. King can pop out 180k in 3 months according to interviews.

“If I don’t write every day, the characters begin to stale off in my mind—they begin to seem like characters instead of real people. The tale’s narrative edge starts to rust and I begin to lose my hold on the story’s plot and pace. Worst of all, the excitement of spinning something new begins to fade. The work starts to feel like work, and for most writers that is the smooch of death.” -Stephen King

“The faster I write the better my output. If I’m going slow I’m in trouble. It means I’m pushing the words instead of being pulled by them.” -Raymond Chandler

I can find hundreds of quotes like this.

Even Martin has said almost the exact same thing in interviews, at least that big blocks of uninterrupted time being what works for him when writing . The problem with this is that he doesn't set aside the time to actually be a successful writer anymore. He is enjoying his success. It may be his right to do so, but it is rude too.

Don't think this isn't an argument his publishers have had with him either. Even Jane Johnson makes a statement that will perk some ears.

"....But don't begrudge a hardworking writer his long-awaited success." -JaneJohnsonBakr on Twitter

Martin himself even talks about how long it has taken him to find true success. The problem with the books shouldn't a mystery if you apply logic to it. I find it sad that he has this type of personality though. I find it more upsetting that I contributed to his success.

His books weren't selling for 5 years. It was fans like me passing them around and spreading the word that made him successful. He wrote a good story no one would have read. I did the same thing for R. Scott Bakker, and he pumped his story out and they're much better than Martins. Some writers just hit it out of the park with little to no push needed. Whether it is their cover, etc..., some books just sell. His wasn't, and he owes his original fans some courtesy at least.

I avoid him at every convention now. I refuse to see him because it would be validating his actions if I did so. Also, I wouldn't have much to say to him. I have been reading these books since 96. It says a lot that it took me this long to make an account on a fansite of his. I always was a silent observer. I usually don't partake in discussions like this. However, it is becoming a trend with his fans who are unhappy and silent that they're starting to break their silence. There are a lot of us.

[GERM]

They're not even casting all of the major characters it seems. They might claim that they're keeping the ending the same, but they also probably think this is a faithful adaptation right now. I think so long as the broad strokes e.g R+L=J is true, Kingslanding is burned down, Bran wargs a Dragon etc. then they'll consider their duty fulfilled.

It's rather disrespectful to spoil Martin's ending in my opinion but whatever.

It is rather disrespectful for Martin to sell it to them and allow them to spoil it. This isn't their fault, it is his.

He has told them how the main characters end, and I have no doubt that they're going to see the main characters end the way he told them. It is very likely that they're going to start killing them off here very soon. It is that point in the story.

[protar]

It is rather disrespectful for Martin to sell it to them and allow them to spoil it. This isn't their fault, it is his.

He has told them how the main characters end, and I have no doubt that they're going to see the main characters end the way he told them. It is very likely that they're going to start killing them off here very soon. It is that point in the story.

Martin can hardly disrespect himself. Obviously he has bought this on himself with his slow writing pace but that doesn't mean D+D should just storm ahead and spoil his magnum opus. It's not like most people would notice the difference.

[raj34]

Martin can hardly disrespect himself. Obviously he has bought this on himself with his slow writing pace but that doesn't mean D+D should just storm ahead and spoil his magnum opus. It's not like most people would notice the difference.

Producing 10 episodes of TV a year is "storming ahead?"

[Guess who's back]

I was really expecting the book to come out this year or at least the first few months of 2015... fuck

I am here waiting for 2 years, I simply cant image how it feels to those people that started the series in 1996.

[GERM]

Martin can hardly disrespect himself. Obviously he has bought this on himself with his slow writing pace but that doesn't mean D+D should just storm ahead and spoil his magnum opus. It's not like most people would notice the difference.

I never said he disrespected himself. He is being disrespectful to his readers. I firmly believe that he had the best intentions of completing this series in a timely fashion when he sold the rights. He should have done the adult thing and buckled down to finish the series instead of taking 9 months off a year for the past 14 years.

[rondo has three heads]

I wouldn't say bitter. I am just a realistic adult who would be ashamed of himself if he pulled the crap Martin is pulling. I can understand writers block, publishing other novels in-between (Stephen King published 19 novels between book 4 and book 5 of the DT series) or maybe 3 years between books. I can understand simply truly slow writing too. Tom Wolfe’s A Man in Full took him 11 years at 370k. However, even his kids state that he was writing 8 hours a day. Patrick Rothfuss is another one who is slow, but again he writes all day every day and takes 3 weeks off a year. Again though, when they publish books they're fantastic and they're constantly plugging away at the books. Martin's last two are far from that and he definitely isn't plugging away at anything work related unless it's an interview or a trip, any book being at the bottom of that list .

In addition, Martin's credibility is suffering, and rightly so, because he isn't writing at all and it appears as if he is doing everything he possibly can to avoid it. He has stopped writing consistently and his story and his pace have both suffered tremendously.

Stephen King has said numerous times that if an author is taking more than 2 years to finish a 300k book, the author isn't writing. King can pop out 180k in 3 months according to interviews.

“If I don’t write every day, the characters begin to stale off in my mind—they begin to seem like characters instead of real people. The tale’s narrative edge starts to rust and I begin to lose my hold on the story’s plot and pace. Worst of all, the excitement of spinning something new begins to fade. The work starts to feel like work, and for most writers that is the smooch of death.” -Stephen King

“The faster I write the better my output. If I’m going slow I’m in trouble. It means I’m pushing the words instead of being pulled by them.” -Raymond Chandler

I can find hundreds of quotes like this.

Even Martin has said almost the exact same thing in interviews, at least that big blocks of uninterrupted time being what works for him when writing . The problem with this is that he doesn't set aside the time to actually be a successful writer anymore. He is enjoying his success. It may be his right to do so, but it is rude too.

Don't think this isn't an argument his publishers have had with him either. Even Jane Johnson makes a statement that will perk some ears.

"....But don't begrudge a hardworking writer his long-awaited success." -JaneJohnsonBakr on Twitter

Martin himself even talks about how long it has taken him to find true success. The problem with the books shouldn't a mystery if you apply logic to it. I find it sad that he has this type of personality though. I find it more upsetting that I contributed to his success.

His books weren't selling for 5 years. It was fans like me passing them around and spreading the word that made him successful. He wrote a good story no one would have read. I did the same thing for R. Scott Bakker, and he pumped his story out and they're much better than Martins. Some writers just hit it out of the park with little to no push needed. Whether it is their cover, etc..., some books just sell. His wasn't, and he owes his original fans some courtesy at least.

I avoid him at every convention now. I refuse to see him because it would be validating his actions if I did so. Also, I wouldn't have much to say to him. I have been reading these books since 96. It says a lot that it took me this long to make an account on a fansite of his. I always was a silent observer. I usually don't partake in discussions like this. However, it is becoming a trend with his fans who are unhappy and silent that they're starting to break their silence. There are a lot of us.

I think your attitude is a bit harsh at times, but basically you are spot on. Particularly your quotes about writing and output.

I mean, if any writer sits down early in the morning for an hour with a cup of coffee, 500 words come EASY. If you are deep into a story and have to get the details exactly right, I'll scale it back to 300. A second hour will be a bit less productive, but it is still very easy to write 400-700 words per day, and that's leaving room to work a full time job after (for amateurs) or a dozen hours of free time (for the millionaire pros).

I truly get it. He should take his vacations, go to his cons, etc., etc. He owes no one anything. But to pretend he has been writing/working hard is insulting to common intelligence. If you dedicate a bare minimum of 90 minutes every day to writing for 5 years, you will have a book, simple as that.

\

[mormont]

Every writer writes differently. Stephen King would not for one second suggest that his comments above are intended to apply to anyone but Stephen King. Raymond Chandler either.

As noted many times before, GRRM has never been a prolific or speedy writer. However, he does in fact write pretty much every day, when he's not on the road. Anyone who says differently is either misinformed or just making an assumption.

As I've said before: I understand completely the temptation to blame GRRM's slow progress on something that can be easily fixed. If only he'd work harder! It's a simple and appealing mantra: it suggests that the frustration we all feel lies within someone's power to relieve. But it is also, unfortunately, not true.

[rondo has three heads]

Every writer writes differently. Stephen King would not for one second suggest that his comments above are intended to apply to anyone but Stephen King. Raymond Chandler either.

As noted many times before, GRRM has never been a prolific or speedy writer. However, he does in fact write pretty much every day, when he's not on the road. Anyone who says differently is either misinformed or just making an assumption.

As I've said before: I understand completely the temptation to blame GRRM's slow progress on something that can be easily fixed. If only he'd work harder! It's a simple and appealing mantra: it suggests that the frustration we all feel lies within someone's power to relieve. But it is also, unfortunately, not true.

You're very right about writer's quotes pertaining to themselves only. However, who informed you about George's writing habits? I can't imagine someone dedicating a full work day to writing and getting less than one manuscript page one, particularly this far into things.

He has an enormous backlog of short stories and shorter novels that indicate he's an imaginative, diverse writer, and even if he began ASOIAF in 1990 he did 3 books in 10 years. That pace has certainly slowed, and I understand why.

I certainly would not call him lazy, or claim that a "Better man" would ignore the distractions that come with fame and money. I am simply astounded at how long it takes for him to write, and this is coming from a fan of Cormac McCarthy, Junot Diaz, Jeffrey Eugenides, and Jonathan Franzen.

[Calibandar]

I have seen a marked change in GRRM's behaviour these last few months, which I have never seen before, not even with Dance.

Ever since the comments about the show overtaking the books this year from D&D and other people from HBO, and that even season 6 might be out before Winds does, GRRM does seem to be at pains to point out that he is working hard on the book. I mean every interview he mentions that it is his top priority now, and that clearly wasn't the case in the years leading up to 2014, it just wasn't. For the first time, GRRM is actually making serious concessions, he normally doesn't do that. So if anything I conclude that the HBO show does have an impact on his priorities, and if I didn't already think the show was a fantastic tv series, I'd love it's existence for that fact alone.

But GRRM is actually clearing his schedule. I can't recall a year with this few trips to conventions or trips abroad as in 2014. He says a he took a month to write a tv script for all of the previous seasons, and he isn't doing that anymore. He's also shed all side projects now, whereas in previous years he was still doing other writing, aside from doing some work on Winds. Those are all indicators that he is working as hard as he can, it just doesn't tell us how far he is, or whether 2015 is realistic.

It seems like he knows he needs to get this done, and it seems like he has quite a way to go, and that this has set him off. That's my feeling on it.

He could have until May/June next year and then still have the book come out in time for the 2015 November/December period when publishers love to release their big releases. So it's far too early to say now that 2015 is out of the question, unless of course you know that he he only has 500 ms pages now ( or less!) and then you're simply years away.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

But GRRM is actually clearing his schedule. I can't recall a year with this few trips to conventions or trips abroad as in 2014. He says a he took a month to write a tv script for all of the previous seasons, and he isn't doing that anymore.

This. He also states that previously he was very involved with casting and other show things and would even review audition tapes. It's no wonder progress was slow but he does seem to be focused on finishing now. It's a good sign.

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

I knew it wouldn't take long for the GRRM apologist to show up. GERM, I have said it before and I will say it again, you are my favorite poster on this website. Everything you said is spot on in my opinion.

We obviously all love this series, but we don't have to love the guy who has almost written it. I don't have nearly the time invested in the series GERM does, but I think I have a right to take offense to a poor work ethic. I think it is comical that people believe D&D are disrespecting GRRM and the fans because they won't stop the show so GRRM can go to Cons instead of finish his books. Just because GRRM is making ASOIAF fans wait on him doesn't mean D&D should screw over AGOT fans the same way. And yes, the two are the same story, they may get to the ending a little differently, but make no mistake, the stories are the same. In fact, we didn't start hearing "they are different stories" until GRRM & Co realized the show Would finish first.

[TaenaOfMyr]

They're not even casting all of the major characters it seems. They might claim that they're keeping the ending the same, but they also probably think this is a faithful adaptation right now. I think so long as the broad strokes e.g R+L=J is true, Kingslanding is burned down, Bran wargs a Dragon etc. then they'll consider their duty fulfilled.

It's rather disrespectful to spoil Martin's ending in my opinion but whatever.

That we are in this situation is 100% GRRM's fault. I know you hate D&D and what they have done with the show, but you have to admit that:

-GRRM is the one who sold the rights to the show to HBO far before the book series was finished.

-GRRM is the one who decided that rather than focus on the core series, he would work on various side projects like The World of Ice and Fire and others instead. Each time he did that, he delayed the books further. For all we know WOW, would be out now if he didn't do those side projects.

-GRRM is the one who decides to use extremely old and out of date computer software instead of more up to date material that would almost certainly help speed the process more.

-GRRM is the one who decided to lie to himself about AFFC and ADWD being three season's worth of material when it was incredibly obvious to all but him that there wasn't enough actual filmable storyline in those books to support even two seasons, let alone three.

-To add on to that, GRRM is the one who decided to put lots of drawn out, unfilmable material in ADWD which made it all the easier for D&D to cut it, and cause the show to go through the books even quicker.

-GRRM is the one who decided to spend all the time he does at cons and other things, and to not write while he's on the road, which greatly contributes to the long delays.

D&D and HBO are under no obligation to do anything but end their storyline in the exact way that GRRM has told them and spoil the book readers. I know you won't do this, but you should look towards criticizing GRRM on this matter, as he is 100% to blame for this situation.

As it pertains to the overall topic of this thread, I tend to be an optimist on such things. She has said that her comments are due to WOW not being on the schedule. I have no doubt that the second GRRM finishes WOW, priority will be given to getting the book out as soon as possible. It not being on the schedule is irrelevant. If he finishes the book tomorrow, they are putting it on the schedule immediately. They are not delaying the book by a year and a half or more, other things on the schedule that are not as popular (which is likely every other thing the publisher is producing in comparison to this book) will get the delay.

[GERM]

Every writer writes differently. Stephen King would not for one second suggest that his comments above are intended to apply to anyone but Stephen King. Raymond Chandler either.

As noted many times before, GRRM has never been a prolific or speedy writer. However, he does in fact write pretty much every day, when he's not on the road. Anyone who says differently is either misinformed or just making an assumption.

As I've said before: I understand completely the temptation to blame GRRM's slow progress on something that can be easily fixed. If only he'd work harder! It's a simple and appealing mantra: it suggests that the frustration we all feel lies within someone's power to relieve. But it is also, unfortunately, not true.

GRRM has directly stated how he successfully writes. What works for him his having a huge chunk of time set aside for him to lose himself in his story. What is the one thing Martin hasn't had for the past 9 months? Oh shit....a huge chunk of time. That is his issue, you are all sitting here spouting quotes made by him about how his book is his #1 priority, but he's still gone. You realize he just filled his previously relatively empty August right? He's gone basically the entire month. Way to stick to the game plan and be a winner. Lol.

As far as writing pace, you're wrong. I met with him in 1999 (at a meet and greet) and he was clear that aSoS was going slower than the last two books, and he pushed it out months later for editing. He essentially wrote 3 books in 7 years since he didn't fully commit to the series until August 1993 (after a cancellation of a TV show he was writing and filming that never made it to TV). He even told us that he planned on finishing the series in 5-6 years by publishing a book every 18-24 months. That doesn't sound like a man who knows he writes slow. A month or two later, his series started making headlines, and everything changed. I have every reason to be disappointed in the man. His pacing has only become an excuse, as with everything else he says regarding the reduced speed of the series.

I have seen a marked change in GRRM's behaviour these last few months, which I have never seen before, not even with Dance.

Ever since the comments about the show overtaking the books this year from D&D and other people from HBO, and that even season 6 might be out before Winds does, GRRM does seem to be at pains to point out that he is working hard on the book. I mean every interview he mentions that it is his top priority now, and that clearly wasn't the case in the years leading up to 2014, it just wasn't. For the first time, GRRM is actually making serious concessions, he normally doesn't do that. So if anything I conclude that the HBO show does have an impact on his priorities, and if I didn't already think the show was a fantastic tv series, I'd love it's existence for that fact alone.

But GRRM is actually clearing his schedule. I can't recall a year with this few trips to conventions or trips abroad as in 2014. He says a he took a month to write a tv script for all of the previous seasons, and he isn't doing that anymore. He's also shed all side projects now, whereas in previous years he was still doing other writing, aside from doing some work on Winds. Those are all indicators that he is working as hard as he can, it just doesn't tell us how far he is, or whether 2015 is realistic.

It seems like he knows he needs to get this done, and it seems like he has quite a way to go, and that this has set him off. That's my feeling on it.

He could have until May/June next year and then still have the book come out in time for the 2015 November/December period when publishers love to release their big releases. So it's far too early to say now that 2015 is out of the question, unless of course you know that he he only has 500 ms pages now ( or less!) and then you're simply years away.

We have seen no change in the past few months unless it is a change in the words coming out of his mouth. However, as he so eloquently reminded us 14 times in aDwD, words are wind. Remember it was this past February and March that he was revealing his "game plan" to every interviewer in the world about how to slow down the show. He got his rude awakening in April when he was told by HBO to "start writing faster." They made it plainly clear they were going forward. So his interviews started changing from keeping pace to "we're telling two different stories."

What has been his answer to their April statement? 18-24 days at home out of 90. 9 of those were probably unpacking and re-packing and 4 more for answering e-mails. It's a joke. He is doing more this August. More....

He needs to show me he's committed. Not tell me. He has been telling us for 15 years now and we have 2 mediocre books to show for it.

He has yet to give anyone any indicator that he's working hard. He is showing me that he has intention of working hard. Just like he had intention to publish aDwD a year after AFFC.