the custom of fostering?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I didn't know about the SSM. I just figured since they were both legally considered men in Westeros, the fostering would have been over. It's a custom for boys. Once you come of age you're no longer a boy.

[Brave_Companion]

Why was Robert fostered at the Vale? I believe it would have happened after his parents died since he saw the boat break up.

Who organized it?

Why wasn't he fostered with his Grandfather or the Targaryens?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Why was Robert fostered at the Vale? I believe it would have happened after his parents died since he saw the boat break up.

Who organized it?

Why wasn't he fostered with his Grandfather or the Targaryens?

Robert was already fostered at the Vale when his parents died.

[Brave_Companion]

Then why was he at Storm's End?

[Lord Reaver]

So was Loras. Just because Ned was honest about it, doesn't mean it wasn't seen/perceived as the Starks "fostering" Theon.

No. Loras was a newborn at the time of RR. He most surely wan't taken then, nor forcibly as theon was. If Robert had wanted to do that, he'd have taken one of his older brothers.

We know how it was seen, Theon ifnorma us that everyone knew he was a prisoner and treated him accordingly. But you are correct the whole traitor and kinslayer stuff is complete hypochritical bull from the norhterners.

[Mikkel]

Then why was he at Storm's End?

His parents were expected back from a journey, it's not much of a stretch to think he was visiting for the occasion?

[Mikkel]

We know how it was seen, Theon ifnorma us that everyone knew he was a prisoner and treated him accordingly. But you are correct the whole traitor and kinslayer stuff is complete hypochritical bull from the norhterners.

I'm going to have (somewhat reluctantly) agree with this: treating Theon as a ward rather than a prisoner/hostage, and eventually putting him in a position of trust where he was able to "stab them in the back" was a calculated gamble on the part of Ned (and continued by Robb), one that happened to backfire. It may also, partly or chiefly, have been Ned's nature that forced him to act that way, but inany case that shouldn't generate any particular loyalty in Theon. Murdering Bran and Rickon is despicable though, and murdering two completely innocent and unrelated surrogates to save face - doubly so.

[theriveryeti]

Was any mention ever made about the possibility of Ned fostering any of his children anywhere? (Outside of him planning to bring the girls and Bran to KL, which to me doesn't count since he'd be there). If not, I wonder why he didn't.

[Lord Reaver]

I'm going to have (somewhat reluctantly) agree with this: treating Theon as a ward rather than a prisoner/hostage, and eventually putting him in a position of trust where he was able to "stab them in the back" was a calculated gamble on the part of Ned (and continued by Robb), one that happened to backfire. It may also, partly or chiefly, have been Ned's nature that forced him to act that way, but inany case that shouldn't generate any particular loyalty in Theon. Murdering Bran and Rickon is despicable though, and murdering two completely innocent and unrelated surrogates to save face - doubly so.

You're not agreeing, apparently. Ned never treated Theon as anything other than a hostage. We see this not only from Theon's recollections, but also for how Ned plans to use him as leverage against Balon if he needs his ships.

Theon was never anything more than a means to pressure Balon for Ned.

Oh, and Theon never murdered any kids, lay that blame at whose feet it rightly belongs: Ramsay's. Theon's biggest fault was allowing it to happen, something he immediately regreted quite deeply.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

It seems to me that fostering is more common with second and third sons (first sons being more valuable), it also seems to serve a few different purposes.

It can build a bond between Houses and /or regions. It can also be used as a way to build loyalty (a smaller House sends their son to foster at a Lord Paramounts hold). Or as in Littlefinger's case a way for a poor House to give a better education/ training to their son.

I understand the GRRM probably wanted to have the Starks all together at the beginning of the story but it seems to me that Bran should have been fostering at another hold, either somewhere in the North or even perhaps in the Riverlands or Vale.

[Maia]

It seems to me that fostering is more common with second and third sons (first sons being more valuable)

No, most sons are fostered/squired at some point, including heirs. Brandon was fostered with the Dustins, Bolton's heir Domeric with Lady Dustin and the Redforts, Robert and Ned, obviously. Doran Martell squired for Lord Gargalen, Jaime for Lord Crakehall, Edric Dayne for Beric Dondarrion, Edmure was fostered with the Mallisters, Randyll Tarly wanted to foster Sam on the Arbor, etc.

Daughters are also occasionally fostered, but much more rarely. IIRC, Lady Waynwood is fostering a Frey girl, whose mother was a Waynwood. Various girls, who are ladies-in-waiting to important women, may also be in similar arrangements. And Doran wanted to foster Arianne with the archont of Tyrosh, while the latters' daughter was briefly fostered in Dorne.

I understand the GRRM probably wanted to have the Starks all together at the beginning of the story but it seems to me that Bran should have been fostering at another hold, either somewhere in the North or even perhaps in the Riverlands or Vale.

8 or near 8 is the earliest "normal" age for fostering, from what we have seen. And Ned could hardly send one of his true-born sons away, while keeping Jon.

Also, maybe after losing his first family and having to live far away from his foster-family (Jon Arryn and Robert), Ned wanted to keep his new family with him for as long as he could. But the way he did things was more unusual than not.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Then why was he at Storm's End?

He returned exactly to welcome his parents after their long journey abroad.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

This is actually a great discussion. I do find it odd that Ned wasn't fostering his children. I suppose having lost His father and brother while he was fostered played into it. Then losing Lyanna and his only living family being Benjen at the wall. It's sensible for him to keep everyone together.

[RainGhost]

What I've always wondered about Theon is how long Ned could have kept him hostage. He was already, what 20 when the series starts? Surely Theon would have wanted to get married at some point. Was he just going to stay in WF until Balon died? A good idea might have been to marry Sansa to Theon, like Theon wanted, but I can understand why Ned didn't want to do that.

[Lord Reaver]

The answer is clear, if one but takes off the Ned-worship blinders. Ned did't care for Theon beyond his use as leverage against Balon. Thus, he never bothered arranging a marriage, let alone allowing him to marry his daughter.

[theriveryeti]

The answer is clear, if one but takes off the Ned-worship blinders. Ned did't care for Theon beyond his use as leverage against Balon. Thus, he never bothered arranging a marriage, let alone allowing him to marry his daughter.

That's a little crass...have you met the Greyjoys??

[Maia]

I imagine that the plan was to keep Theon until Balon died and then let him return and hopefully have a pro-7K, pro-northern Lord of the Iron Isles. I mean, Lord Baelor Blacktyde has been a hostage/ward in Oldtown, but they let him return at some point. OTOH, his father had been killed during the Rebellion, so it wasn't the same situation.

As to Theon's marriage, it would have made more sense for him to marry another Ironborn. After his long absence, he needed to bind them to himself and that would have been a good start.

Baelor was also a parade successful example of the whole method. He converted to the Seven, presumably changed his given name and became pro-7 kingdoms. Nevertheless, his family accepted him back, the Ironborn seemed to respect him and he was certainly bold enough to make his opinions heard. Too bad that Euron murdered him, but the Blacktydes are allegedly quite angry over it.

How did Baelor manage so well, when Theon failed so abjectly? Well, presumably the Hightowers had sense enough to train him as a sailor, which didn't occur to Ned, his family dynamics were different and he himself was probably a more charismatic man than Theon.

[The Wolves]

That's a little crass...have you met the Greyjoys??

Lol!!!

[Lord Reaver]

That's a little crass...have you met the Greyjoys??

Not really, no, considering they are fictional characters.

[JoeyBanana]

The answer is clear, if one but takes off the Ned-worship blinders. Ned did't care for Theon beyond his use as leverage against Balon. Thus, he never bothered arranging a marriage, let alone allowing him to marry his daughter.

You still haven't explained why Theon, the hostage, was taught how to fight and was educated with the Stark children, living with them. Ned had absolutely no reason to do that unless he's trying to raise him in a certain way and in accordance with his political goals, of course. Who cares if he had fuzzy feelings for Theon, it doesn't matter. It also has absolutely nothing to do with an arranged marriage, no foster parent in this entire series has decided on a marriage, that's not their task.

You make this out to be some mutually exclusive thing but it's not. He was a hostage and he was fostered. Loras was taken as poltical assurance, as many foster children are, and since you ignored it the first time, i'll say it again, was also used to secure peace. It has been done in various different ways with Theon, Loras, little Freys, Myrcella, Redwynes, Ned (etc) with various different goals. Theon is merely an extreme case as they had to force Balon as opposed to the Tyrells who were obviously clever enough to realize what was really asked and complied with the request willingly.

And Theon's heavily biased and distorted view on the situation is not the best source of information. Yeah, he was a hostage but was still raised fairly similar to a foster child. Call it a foster child in invisible chains, if you will, doesn't change the fact that he was fostered by the Starks in the literal sense of the word.