The Targaryen Madness Factor/Targaryen Double Standard

[Nictarion]

I think we can agree that Dany is most certainly not the only one, as we have seen other people doing it. But, generalization that everyone do it is also wrong, because we have also seen they are not. That is why I find justification "others do it too" nonsensical. Because I don't want to compare you with Ramsay or Tickler or Tywin... The way I see it is simply without any justification, as the sign of how desperate she was for some answers and how that move was simply a huge lapse of her. I do judge her, especially since the torture was pointless at the end, but I don't think that moment is what defines her. But also, negating it, exonerating her would also be bad.

This we can agree on. The sad thing is that so many people do.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

A lot of people don't like Dany not because by definition Targs are those things, but because they believe they see her acting in such a way (demanding things or else Fire and Blood blahblahblah). I think there have been more than adequate examples of great people that happen to be Targs that are nothing like that such as Maester Aemon, Queen Alysanne(sp?), Baelor Breakspear, Aegon V, etc, ,etc. I do however believe it is more present in the Targ culture than many others, which is slightly understandable because of the being rulers of a continent for 400 years and owning dragons and whatever. There is also a tinge of racial superiority as well mixed in all that and their attempts to keep it all in the family.

As far as Jon vs Dany comparisons... Jon is brought up in an incredibly stable, Stark environment where a fairly modest, incredibly understated, and one of the most honorable/moral men in the books run the show. I think the different upbringing where she lived in an unstable situation, with an unstable brother, in a foreign land, being fed what Viserys was likely fed from a young age accounted for much of the differences between the two. That's on top of the fact that different people in the same family, even brought up in the same place, can have wildly different traits.

There are probably Dany/Targ haters that will ignore that stuff, but I think a fair amount of the criticisms take this stuff into account and base their views on her actions from the story and not exclusively from her bloodlines, or gender, or whatever else.

[sj4iy]

Gimme a break, You have not done any better of a job supporting your claims than I have. We see the situation differently. No matter what evidence I give you turn around and use the double standard. Ned and Jon were justified cuz they were at war...... well so was Dany. Also those are not the only people they killed. You have proven the point of the thread, double standards are rampant when discussing Dany, everyone else gets a pass but not her. Thank you.

You've given NO evidence. I've given you evidence straight from the books. That's the difference between our positions.

If you have evidence, then again, I ask you:

How old were those girls?

What were they accused of?

What were they found guilty of?

Unless you can tell me the facts from the books, then you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your position that she was justified in using torture on those girls.

What Ned or Jon did is of no consequence to this conversation and are not remotely analogous to this situation. Show me where Ned or Jon orders the torture of a suspect's children to get information out of them and we'll talk. Otherwise, you ARE grasping at straws.

[Mithras]

But it has worked, it has yielded results on many occasions, so in some cases it IS in fact the right thing to do. Take the High Septon getting answers out of Kettlebeck, it is a very gruesome terrible amount of torture and it's gross, but he got every answer he was trying to get, all the truth came spilling out.

I can't understand how you post something like this and at the same time claim that you never justify torture. With the same reasoning, one can propose that WoS was good in Cersei's case because apparently it yielded good results. Cersei became more restrained and the Realm had a better ruling even if it was for a short time. After saying something like that, one cannot claim that he/she is not justifying WoS here because he/she is surely acting like a WoS apologist. Even more disgusting cases can be built for rape. And why stop there? Burning people alive is good too because it generally yields good results like fair winds and even dragons!

"Working" can not be the criteria here.

[Sanset]

Stannis burns people alive for hypocrite religion and he is a strong super guy that suits for ruling, Dany does some questionable things and she a brat.

Stannis is almost lost and keeps on fighting then he's commendable. Dany lost almost everything and she doesn't know she's doing all along the red waste.