How will they condense FFC and DWD into Season 5? (book spoilers)

[Hodor's Dragon]

I think it's a major mistake to try to fit two books into one season. It makes no sense to me.

Especially since it's the only two books they've got left. I continue to hold out hope it won't go down that way. Especially since they never really said anything definitive about "seven seasons," and when they did talk about "seven seasons," it was before the show blew up in popularity this year. I mean, it has been successful right straight along, but it was only during Season 4 that it became a huge cultural phenomenon.

I would use each of that goose's remaining golden eggs as a season.

[The Reckoner]

The theme of identity running through AFFC/ADWD should guide D&D merging both books. This theme is especially relevant to Jon, Danaerys, Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime. I expect these to be our main characters this season. You could make an argument for Arya, though it seems like identity won't become central to her arc until she decides whether or not to return to Westeros and her Stark ancestry, It shouldn't be hard to stretch the theme to cover Doran Martell as well: while Doran comes across as a peacelover, how does he hold onto this identity when the Sand Snakes and the majority of Dorn are pushing for vengeance for the Viper? There is plenty of fluff among each chapter relevant to these characters in books four and five that some of it can be pared away.

[sj4iy]

Especially since it's the only two books they've got left.

...they also have the rest of the story from the author himself and have had many discussions about where characters' arcs are going and what will happen. It doesn't matter how many published books there are, they have the entire story.

I continue to hold out hope it won't go down that way. Especially since they never really said anything definitive about "seven seasons," and when they did talk about "seven seasons," it was before the show blew up in popularity this year. I mean, it has been successful right straight along, but it was only during Season 4 that it became a huge cultural phenomenon.

They've only ever said they would do seven (maybe eight) seasons.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/

The show has been 'blowing up in popularity' since season 1. If they haven't changed their plans in the last 4 years, then I don't see them changing it now.

I would use each of that goose's remaining golden eggs as a season.

The last two books don't have enough tv-ready material to make two entire seasons. They just don't. A Storm of Swords had a lot of big moments from start to finish, and even it couldn't really stretch the entire two seasons it was given because we saw that some characters are already in their AFFC and/or ADWD storylines (Sansa, Dany and Bran, for example). Neither AFFC nor ADWD have enough 'big moments' to justify two entire seasons. Besides, filmmaking shouldn't be about "hey, we have to do this book per season...no more, no less", because that simply gives you arbitrary constraints for no real reason. You should do what works on screen. If AFFC and ADWD work better as one season, then that's how it should be done.

[Hodor's Dragon]

...they also have the rest of the story from the author himself and have had many discussions about where characters' arcs are going and what will happen. It doesn't matter how many published books there are, they have the entire story.

I don't think that's true. They have broad outlines only. Even Martin doesn't have the entire story, because it's not written yet. So far, even in Season 4 which was by far the most they have strayed from the plot, they have primarily just been putting Martin's work straight to screen. It really helps that he's a brilliant dialoguist.

Me and many other people would like to see as much of it as an adaption, instead of as original work, as possible. I'm not sure exactly how doing it the other way would work commercially, as I don't think any other extremely-popular fictional work has been in a position to be completed on screen before being completed on the page, but I would tend to think at first blush that an adaption will have more financial value than an original work. These novels are massively popular.

They've only ever said they would do seven (maybe eight) seasons.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/

The show has been 'blowing up in popularity' since season 1. If they haven't changed their plans in the last 4 years, then I don't see them changing it now.

Total viewership in Season 4 was over double what it was in Season 1. Even more strikingly, the number of new viewers in Season 4 was over 50% higher than any other season: 4.4 million new viewers vs 2.6 million new viewers for season 3 and 2.3 million new viewers for season 4.

Not only did the numbers grow faster, they really reached a cultural tipping point. For the first time, GOT became the most-watched HBO show ever; at the same time, it became the #1 water-cooler topic, passing Walking Dead, Breaking Bad and other cultural phenomena.

It's pretty striking for a show to grow viewership that rapidly during it's 4th season. I'd lay long odds that they didn't predict that. The show is in a different posture vis a vis HBO than it was 12 months ago. Season 4 was BIG for this show.

The last two books don't have enough tv-ready material to make two entire seasons. They just don't.

First, that's just not true. Not even close. This is 2000 pages of fiction; if you really want to milk it for every detail, you could make 4 or 5 seasons out of it.

Second, the richly-realized characters and detailed milieu make it child's play to riff off the existing story to create new material. Look at the Arya-Tywin interactions and the Brienne-Hound meeting for examples of when the show has done this very well.

A Storm of Swords had a lot of big moments from start to finish, and even it couldn't really stretch the entire two seasons it was given because we saw that some characters are already in their AFFC and/or ADWD storylines (Sansa, Dany and Bran, for example).

You're confusing "did it that way" for "had to do it that way." It didn't have to be that way. A lot of rich material was cut from those books.

-> snip

It would not be difficult to stretch the material out. Not at all.

[sj4iy]

It would not be difficult to stretch the material out. Not at all.

If you have to stretch it out, then you don't have enough material.

[The Green Griffin]

It seems like Season 5 will officially cover Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons in its entirety, and I can see them fitting most of the already introduced characters' stories into one season, but how will they fit Victarion Greyjoy and Euron Greyjoy into the season? What about Aegon? I'm pretty sure these are absolute necessities to put in the show, but it doesn't look like they're looking for cast members for these story lines or anything. Maybe they'll fit them into Season 6 and the Winds of Winter storyline?

Seems? According to whom? I have not heard of Victarion, Euron, Damphair, or any other associated characters being cast. I haven't heard casting info about Griff or Young Griff either, but I don't expect to.

[The Green Griffin]

It sounds like that would be too rushed, but I've felt that way before.

[Colonel Green]

The theme of identity running through AFFC/ADWD should guide D&D merging both books.

Themes are for eighth-grade book reports, as they put it.

It would not be difficult to stretch the material out. Not at all.

Yes, it would. Even ASOS didn't have two seasons' worth of material, and it's far more eventful than AFFC/ADWD. Moreover, spending two seasons on those books would slow plot advancement to a crawl.

[The Green Griffin]

Looking like Euron, Victarion, Aegon, JonCon, Arienne, and Quentyn will be hanging out with Coldhands and Strong Belwas.

That sounds like a terrible idea. I can't imagine they'd do that.

[The Green Griffin]

Wait for more casting. The last casting news we got for season 4 was dec? they haven't revealed everyone yet. Still I doubt we will get all the Grey Joy brothers.

Probably not, but I hope they do include all of them.

[The Green Griffin]

True enough. The fact that Balon is still alive in the show irks the living day lights out of me. The funny thing is the Greyjoys have 4 POV characters.

Eh. The show is about t the point in the story where we find out he's dead anyway.

[The Green Griffin]

I think that season 5 should be Jon-centered, i.e. starts with him being chosen Lord Commander, and ends with him being "killed". Next major character should be Cersei, (I really like her in the show, and her AFFC and ADWD story is really epic), I think that her storyline will make an exciting season.

To make it easier for me, I will just rank them based on the screentime I think they will get in season 5:

3 main storylines that I think will not be changed (if only some minor changes)

points rank character

100 1 Jon - main male character, main protagonist

80 2 Cersei - main female character, main antagonist

60 3 Arya

other storylines:

60 4 Daenerys - no major changes

45 5 Dorne - Arianne and Quentyn are cut with Ellaria replacing Arianne.

45 6 Tyrion - his journey have to be shortened + Aegon's arc may being cut depends on its role in the next books.

40 7 Stannis - no major changes

40 8 Greyjoys (no kingsmoot, Victarion and Aeron are cut).

30 9 Sansa - showrunners will probably invent something for her (like they did with Bran at Craster's Keep).

30 10 Davos - no changes unless they cut Manderly which I hope they will not

I think they may cut the kingsmoot, too, but I hope not. I can't imagine cutting Aegon regardless of where he ends up in the books. Cutting Manderly would be a mistake, too, in my opinion, but it's certainly possible. Sansa and Tyrion - I agree with your predictions, otherwise.

[The Onion Sleight]

The theme of identity running through AFFC/ADWD should guide D&D merging both books. This theme is especially relevant to Jon, Danaerys, Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime. I expect these to be our main characters this season. You could make an argument for Arya, though it seems like identity won't become central to her arc until she decides whether or not to return to Westeros and her Stark ancestry, It shouldn't be hard to stretch the theme to cover Doran Martell as well: while Doran comes across as a peacelover, how does he hold onto this identity when the Sand Snakes and the majority of Dorn are pushing for vengeance for the Viper? There is plenty of fluff among each chapter relevant to these characters in books four and five that some of it can be pared away.

It's the most relevant to Theon/Reek obviously, so don't forget him.

[boojam]

The show has been 'blowing up in popularity' since season 1. If they haven't changed their plans in the last 4 years, then I don't see them changing it now.

Thats kind of 'we will have to wait and see' situation. After all Dave and Dan don't own Geroge's option , HBO does, and , I guess, in the long run Time-Warner does.

If the show ticks up again this season TW may put some pressure on Michael Lombardo about going 8 seasons.

I have the impression the D&D are getting worn out , and since the show runners have been the creative spark for the visual narrative HBO may have to come up with offer they-can't-refuse.

I mean another up-tick for season 6 and HBO is going to rolling in dough, which would fix those 7-year actor contracts.

I keep wondering just what GRRM has in mind is ASOIAF going to have Return of the King - like industrial strength capstone?

(George has hinted that he would like to see the visual story end with a 'Peter Jackson' - style extravaganza , so maybe Winds and the weirdly titled 'Dream...' may have fireworks galore.)

It may come down to money, it always does!

[sj4iy]

Thats kind of 'we will have to wait and see' situation. After all Dave and Dan don't own Geroge's option , HBO does, and , I guess, in the long run Time-Warner does.

If the show ticks up again this season TW may put some pressure on Michael Lombardo about going 8 seasons.

I have the impression the D&D are getting worn out , and since the show runners have been the creative spark for the visual narrative HBO may have to come up with offer they-can't-refuse.

I mean another up-tick for season 6 and HBO is going to rolling in dough, which would fix those 7-year actor contracts.

I keep wondering just what GRRM has in mind is ASOIAF going to have Return of the King - like industrial strength capstone?

(George has hinted that he would like to see the visual story end with a 'Peter Jackson' - style extravaganza , so maybe Winds and the weirdly titled 'Dream...' may have fireworks galore.)

It may come down to money, it always does!

At some point, it's diminishing returns to stretch it out. An 8th season would probably be that point. If you reach the peak if popularity (which will probably be well before season 7), then you get nothing more by extending the show. You won't raise ratings, but you will raise overhead.

I think 7 seasons will be enough. If AFFC and ADWD were actually two separate books instead of one long book, I might see a need for two seasons. But I don't. I think most everything important can be fit into one season, and for the better.

[Janicia]

Game of Thrones is good for HBO's prestige, but does it actually move their bottom line much? While audiences have grown, the show's budget has also grown. And the show is widely pirated and people share HBO go accounts. I mean - yeah I'm sure HBO is thrilled to have GoT and the HBO executives may care more about it than most of their other shows, but GoT is only a small part of the content that HBO is creating.

And anyway, doesn't HBO have a pretty good reputation for giving show runners creative control? It just baffles me how many people argue that HBO is going to be so desperate to get extra seasons out of GoT (seven seasons is a lot!) than the show producers themselves have publicly announced they're aiming for. At this point, GoT is one of the best shows of this decade. The only way that HBO could jeopardize that would be screwing up the ending. Like, for example, by changing the number of seasons at the last minute.

Oddly, the people who tend to argue that there should be lots more than 7 seasons tend to be the same people that think the show already takes too many liberties in the adaptation. Tacking on more seasons to the end where the books haven't been finished, would mean that the show consists of a greater percent of original content and a lower percent of GRRMs work.

[gvewolf243]

Eh. The show is about t the point in the story where we find out he's dead anyway.

Actually no. We learn about Balon's death before Red Wedding .

[Colonel Green]

And anyway, doesn't HBO have a pretty good reputation for giving show runners creative control?

Yes. I can't imagine them demanding that the show continue past the point that the showrunners want it to end.

The second War for the Dawn is likely going to be extremely expensive on an effects level, and if you combined that with the explosion in cast salaries that would come with an eighth season, I tend to think it's unlikely. Indeed, the switch from talking about eight seasons to talking about seven is probably motivated by that, in some part.

[BrienneofQarth]

At the risk of sounding cynical, just any old how, as long as there is plenty of the reliable, profitable formula of boobs/graphic violence/Tyrion hagiography in it.

[ADB]

Game of Thrones is good for HBO's prestige, but does it actually move their bottom line much?

The show itself, probably not. That's the one place they're handicapped versus conventional TV: they can't simply hike ad prices on the most popular shows. That's probably why they push the Blurays and merchandising so heavily, to help capitalize.