Mal Malenkirk Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 In another thread, I rant about the absurdity of how Dany rises to power between Quarth and Mereen. Read it if you care, the debate is reasonably entertaining. But I don't dislike Dany as a character or her role in the saga or the themes that are explored in some of her chapters. I appreciated her GoT storylines. For narrative purposes, Dany does need to become one of the most powerful woman in the world. So how do you do it without turning the rise to power into a Simpson's episode? (Thank you Arakan for that image). Like GRMM, I borrow from history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Shih Ching Sih was a prostitute that was captured by pirates around the turn of the 18th century. From captive, she ended up marrying a powerful pirate lord and when he died she managed to gain control of his fleet and then expand it to the point where she became arguably the most powerful pirate in history. That's right. From whore to queen of pirates. And it was not as easy as inheriting the damn fleet. She had to secure alliances and loyalties. She controlled over 20 000 pirates at the height of her power and eventually China had to pardon her and let her retire with her loot because they couldn't defeat her. She died peacefully of old age and rich. So that's basically the outline I would have preferred to see Dany follow. She was already integrated somehow in the Dothraki society. The author could simply have changed the timing of the dragon eggs hatching so that most of the Kalesar saw it happen. Then thanks to her bloodriders Dany just needed to successfully rally, say, a sixth of the Khalesar while the rest break out in similarly sized band and the story is on. You can spend two books reuniting the Khalesar and even growing it beyond what Drogo had managed. If it's essential that she ends up in Mereen, by that point she can just besiege the city and take it in a more normal manner that doesn't require them to leave the back door open. The Mongols were expert at siege warfare so the Dothraki surely can be taught. That way we read about alliance being forged, war being waged and conventions being defied instead of being treated to a gallery of slavers all being more stupid then the next. Anyway, that's how I would I have liked her rise to power to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sorry buddy, you came to the wrong forum. Around here people read a version of the asoiaf books where all the Dany chapters were replaced with Mein Kampf excerpts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Great idea Mal! But do we comment or create our own ideas of different routes? Good sir, you are always a sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey, if you have an idea of your own that seem a reasonable way for Dany to rise to the top, do share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Stupid pirates instead of stupid slavers, sure I guess.Isn't this fan fiction anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Around here people read a version of the asoiaf books where all the Dany chapters were replaced with Mein Kampf excerpts. First, that is nonsense... Second, is it that hard to have one Dany debate without Hitler, Jesus or misogyny? Jesus, people... Anyway, that's how I would I have liked her rise to power to occur. Her rise to power obviously has occurred so it's kinda pointless debating what coulda/shoulda/woulda happen... I recommend reading ADWD, since you told you haven't read it... That way you can see more completely her road to power and what she did when she got there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Criticize the story all you like but coming up with your own ideas on what should have happened is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 RoamingRonin: Criticize the story all you like but coming up with your own ideas on what should have happened is pointless. Dude, every single thing any of us has ever written on this forum is pointless in the grand scheme of things. We do it because we enjoy it. If you don't, there is no need to comment on it. Because that would be really pointless. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sorry buddy, you came to the wrong forum. Around here people read a version of the asoiaf books where all the Dany chapters were replaced with Mein Kampf excerpts.I do my fair share Dany trash-talking, but I LOL'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Dude, every single thing any of us has ever written on this forum is pointless in the grand scheme of things. We do it because we enjoy it. If you don't, there is no need to comment on it. Because that would be really pointless. :P This forum is for us to discuss the story, not make up our own version of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This forum is for us to discuss the story, not make up our own version of it. Let the guy do what he want's. If you don't like the topic just don't be here. First, that is nonsense... Second, is it that hard to have one Dany debate without Hitler, Jesus or misogyny? Jesus, people... I really wish we could. I really do but for some reason people seem to hate her more then Joffrey or Ramsay so every topic devolves into Dany being compared to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I really wish we could. I really do but for some reason people seem to hate her more then Joffrey or Ramsay so every topic devolves into Dany being compared to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc... Well, you brought Hitler into discussion, so you may want to reconsider whose responsibility is for that argument on this thread. People certainly don't hate her more than Joffrey or Ramsay, it is just that hate for Joffrey or Ransay is so universal that we don't have need to discuss it. Dany is divisive and controversial character, and as such, she brings much more talk and discussion than Ramsay or Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well, you brought Hitler into discussion, so you may want to reconsider whose responsibility is for that argument on this thread. People certainly don't hate her more than Joffrey or Ramsay, it is just that hate for Joffrey or Ransay is so universal that we don't have need to discuss it. Dany is divisive and controversial character, and as such, she brings much more talk and discussion than Ramsay or Joffrey. lol yeah I did and it was funny. But we both know I was making a joke about the people who actually compare her to Hitler. It's not like I'm invoking irrational hatred as most people do when Hitler is brought into a Dany thread. Why don't we all just relax and have some tea. Yeah, that sounds nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 First, that is nonsense... Second, is it that hard to have one Dany debate without Hitler, Jesus or misogyny? Jesus, people... Of course we can. It's not a Sansa thread, after all. >: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey, if you have an idea of your own that seem a reasonable way for Dany to rise to the top, do share!That's your idea? Do a direct parallel to the story of Ching Sih? Maybe I missed something but the author already mentioned he does not like to do direct parallels.1. Do you know where her story is going? I don't think you do.2. Do you understand the symbolic nature of the story as well as the cyclical nature of the story?3. You didn't actually come up with a plan you just basically said ummmm be the leader of the Dothraki. In your OP you complain about her Boons. Yet you just handed her the Dothraki with the plan of well just give them to her. Make up your mind. You didn't really say how she would be the leader. As mentioned in the books, the Khals would gladly kill her for the dragons or kill her and the baby Dragons.4. The Dothraki are nothing like 18th and 19th century Chinese. Women could and did have power in China not so much with the Dothraki. But by this account Ching Sih the pirate queen who took over her dead husbands fleet. Dany would now become the slaver Queen, pretty sure Martin is moving in the opposite direction.5. How about we let the world famous award winning author write his books. I hear he is good at it, well better than you anyway, better than me too.6. See I am a big believer that you need to see the whole story to understand the whole story and we still have two books left. You don't like her chapters feel free too not read them.7. Since you are giving away boons, can you send Arya a therapist, Jon a Surgeon, Bran wheel chair, Slyse some Nair, Stannis a Bird with two good wings, Sansa a friend and maybe a hitman to kill LF, Mel a Clue, Vic a brain, Euron a heart, and Sam some courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxvb Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I like the Ching Shih path. A variant with more politics and less Dothraki would be to have Drogo's Kahalsar sack a city that tries to defy them, have him die and Dany left with enough riders to rule over the city, but not enough to fully control it. Then it's essentially the Mereeneese storyline, maybe with a rival city added into the mix, which she eventuall defeats decisively, given her the army she has in ADWD. Then send her off with Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 At least we got to see QARTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yeh just copy and paste history books into the chapters you don't like. Fanfiction isn't good enough for Westeros.org. Fanplagiarism is where it's at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Of course we can. It's not a Sansa thread, after all. >: ) Actually, with all my experience here, I still have to see Sansa being compared to Hitler, Stalin, Jesus or Moses... Dany threads are n.1 in this field. Yeh just copy and paste history books into the chapters you don't like.Fanfiction isn't good enough for Westeros.org. Fanplagiarism is where it's at What is the fanplagiarism? And judging entire board of 90 000 members, based on one person and one thread is kinda oversimplifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 1. Do you know where her story is going? I don't think you do. None of it will ever change how she got there. 2. Do you understand the symbolic nature of the story as well as the cyclical nature of the story? Yes. Do you understand how this is irrelevant to the situation at hand? 3. You didn't actually come up with a plan you just basically said ummmm be the leader of the Dothraki. In your OP you complain about her Boons. Yet you just handed her the Dothraki with the plan of well just give them to her. Make up your mind. You didn't really say how she would be the leader. As mentioned in the books, the Khals would gladly kill her for the dragons or kill her and the baby Dragons. First of all, she's already inbedded in the Khalesar and she already awed several Dothraki in following her because of the dragon hatching. All I'm saying is if she had been allowed by storyline to awe a little more Dothraki, than she already has the seeds of a great army and so do not need to do a comedy sketch at Astapor to gain the same, she could just go from there. 4. The Dothraki are nothing like 18th and 19th century Chinese. Women could and did have power in China not so much with the Dothraki. But by this account Ching Sih the pirate queen who took over her dead husbands fleet. Dany would now become the slaver Queen, pretty sure Martin is moving in the opposite direction. Ching Sie did not have dragons... But yeah, dealing with Dothraki Mysoginy and changing their culture would be hard and take time. It would require many Chapters filled with challenges to her budding authority, diplomacy, negotiations and more. Oh no, this makes for terrible storytelling! 5. How about we let the world famous award winning author write his books. I hear he is good at it, well better than you anyway, better than me too. He is. And by in large it's pretty thrilling. So? Even Albert Einstein was corrected by lesser minds from time to time. ASOIAF will go down as one the best fantasy saga of its era. It will not go down as a holy book where every single letter was perfection and nothing could have been improved. 6. See I am a big believer that you need to see the whole story to understand the whole story and we still have two books left. You don't like her chapters feel free too not read them. True. We could retroactively learn that Dany is a great sorceress and had cast a spell of feeble-mindedness on the slavers. That would change my understanding of how this incident went down. 7. Since you are giving away boons, can you send Arya a therapist, Jon a Surgeon, Bran wheel chair, Slyse some Nair, Stannis a Bird with two good wings, Sansa a friend and maybe a hitman to kill LF, Mel a Clue, Vic a brain, Euron a heart, and Sam some courage. Sarcasm is not your strong suit, but you'll get there with some practice. I get why you try your hand at it, I've been dishing it out left and right myself. ;) All I'm saying is that Dany should have had a chance to fight for control of a part of the Khalesar. To me, it's a more satisfying way to start her rise to power than her shopping spree in Slaver's Bay was. And it is a boon of sort, it's just a helluva less glaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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