The Growing Gap Between ASOIAF and GOT (Book Spoilers)

[Ingelheim]

That makes no sense. How can he work her out in the books when she would be dead by this time?

Because she hasn't even appeared in the books. He'll just probably name some random whore Ros.

[alienarea]

The tv show might give is the only end to the story in the foreseeable future.

[Annara Snow]

Because she hasn't even appeared in the books. He'll just probably name some random whore Ros.

That wouldn't make her Ros, it would just make her another character named Ros, just like Ramsay's accomplice/girlfriend/minion in the show isn't Myranda Royce just because she's called Myranda.

[Ingelheim]

That wouldn't make her Ros, it would just make her another character named Ros, just like Ramsay's accomplice/girlfriend/minion in the show isn't Myranda Royce just because she's called Myranda.

And? Of course she wouldn't be Ros. Ros is dead. But she'll still appear in the books. Martin liked both the character and the actress, so he'll introduce her in the ASOIAF world...but in a different way.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

I agree with those who are raising concerns about the deviation from the books. Although I still enjoyed this season quite a lot I was really worried about some of the changes. I very much appreciated the effort and consistency Dave & Dan put into the third season but seeing The Red Wedding as a peak? I don't know...

Where do I begin? There were some positive changes in the adaptation, I'll admit. To name a few off the top of my head: Varys' conversation with Oberyn in the throne room, Tyrion's trial speech, the Others' Craster's baby rebirth, the mutiny at Craster's keep (Karl fokkin Tanner), The Hound and Arya scenes (e. g. Arya exacting revenge on season 2's Raff the Sweetling in the pilot)... I also didn't find Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands' absence particularly vexing because they don't really serve any major purpose in the books apart from adding to the shock/mystery factor.

Then there's the bad. First, all this random bumping into each other (Mel, BWB, Gendry in S03, Arya, The Hound, Rorge and Biter in S04, The Hound vs. Brienne...) is getting rather absurd. I get that they have to cut a few corners here and there to make it work with 10 episodes and keep us invested in those select few characters and all but after some time it just felt like oversimplifying the story. Which brings me to my next point.

Why was Tysha not mentioned in season 4?! IIRC, she was mentioned in season 1 during that Tyrion/Shae/Bronn drinking game scene, so why not here?! This omission takes away so much depth from Tyrion's character (namely, his relationship with Tywin) I just couldn't believe it! That last Tyrion scene just pissed me off so much, UGH!! First, they made it seem like Tyrion killing Shae was merely an act of self-defense (not to mention they'd written themselves into a corner with Shae's genuine affection for Tyrion, unlike in the books). Then, since there's no Tysha Tywin's death carried a lot less emotional impact. For the same reason, the Jaime and Tyrion farewell scene ended up without its edge. And lastly, Varys getting on the boat with Tyrion?! I was on the verge of punching the screen!!

Back to my previous point about oversimplifying. With Varys now en route to Pentos and the absence of Kevan Lannister throughout the show (especially at the Purple wedding) I think we can, sadly, assume that there'll be no ADwD epilogue scene. I also suspect they'll skip the whole Aegon/Jon Con/The Golden Company plot and just have Illyrio, Varys, and Tyrion side with Dany ASAP. What of Jorah? Moqorro? Brown Ben Plumm? No idea.

Then there's the Wall, where there a ton of characters in the books yet the show's only introduced us to Mormont, Ygritte, Tormund, Mance, Slynt, and Thorne, all of which we know are either dead, imprisoned, or about to die/be imprisoned. Where's Marsh? Where's Pyke? Other wildlings of note? Who is going to stab Jon then?! It worries me how they'll pull this off.

Next is Dany. Back when they announced the season 5 casting there was a Yezzan whose description read something along the lines of 'a slaver who'll be causing trouble for Daenerys'. That's it. How we'll get from here to the big battle at Mereen is beyond me. Quaithe and Xaro have been omitted before so I can kinda see them being left out again (so I guess no prophecies). Hizdahr and the pit? Best hope not! Which reminds me, that Qarth storyline in season 2 was severely underplayed.

Iron islanders? All cut out, that's my prediction.

I think it's messed up how they don't take 1 minute of screen time to, for instance, mention Tysha but always find 5 minutes per episode to show you either Ros grabbing Varys' balls, Podrick demonstrating his sexual prowess, Olenna boasting her sexual prowess, Oberyn's sexual escapades, cousin Orson smashing his beetles, Renly's inability to perform sexually... There's more comedic relief in GoT than humour in most sitcoms, it seems.

I also feel like sounding off about all the re-castings while I'm ranting. Okay, I can forgive Myrcella and Tommen due to the few year gap in between appearances. Less so The Mountain and Daario. Season 4's Mountain looks like a giant teddy-bear, not nearly as formidable as in the books. And Daario... IMO, the previous actor was far more suited. He really looked the part (mischievous, unpredictable sellsword) and had more chemistry with Emilia, whereas this new guy looks too much like a good guy (no, not even him pissing on Mereen's champion helped).

However, I'm pretty confident Dan & Dave will be able to at least pull off the Dorne storyline. Plus there're still Arya, Cersei, and Jaime to look forward to.

P. S.: Is the plan still 7 seasons? Maybe #sevenseasonsandamovie?

Solid first post.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

And? Of course she wouldn't be Ros. Ros is dead. But she'll still appear in the books. Martin liked both the character and the actress, so he'll introduce her in the ASOIAF world...but in a different way.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

If the show starts to influence the books...................reading might hurt my brain....................

[Cas Stark]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

If the show starts to influence the books...................reading might hurt my brain....................

I consider that a done deal, myself. One of the reasons I'm kinda bitter now all the way around.

[Annara Snow]

GRRM has said numerous times that the show does not influence his writing of the books in the slightest. They are two different things, and he has been writing those books and having the storyline planned for over 20 years.

The only possible exception he's mentioned is that he said he liked Osha in the show so he could give her a bigger role in the books.

I'm pretty sure he's never said anything at all about Ros, whatever some posters here claim.

[Ingelheim]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo

If the show starts to influence the books...................reading might hurt my brain....................

I consider that a done deal, myself. One of the reasons I'm kinda bitter now all the way around.

You want my honest opinion? I never liked Ros, but there are characters in the show (Karl Fooking Tanner) that I wouldn't mind seeing in the books.

It's Martin's work. He can do whatever he wants with it. And as long as he's a big part of the show, you have to face the reality that it'll influence the books.

[Ingelheim]

GRRM has said numerous times that the show does not influence his writing of the books in the slightest. They are two different things, and he has been writing those books and having the storyline planned for over 20 years.

The only possible exception he's mentioned is that he said he liked Osha in the show so he could give her a bigger role in the books.

I'm pretty sure he's never said anything at all about Ros, whatever some posters here claim.

He stated it. I cannot find the interview right now, but he said he'll like to give Ros a small cameo in the books.

Now, the key is...when did he say that? Because maybe he didn't know she was going to die.

[HodoringHodor]

GRRM has said numerous times that the show does not influence his writing of the books in the slightest. They are two different things, and he has been writing those books and having the storyline planned for over 20 years.

The only possible exception he's mentioned is that he said he liked Osha in the show so he could give her a bigger role in the books.

I'm pretty sure he's never said anything at all about Ros, whatever some posters here claim.

The thing about Ros is mentioned on multiple websites, it's originally from an video interview I think. GRRM has his part in making of the show and it's not too hard to imagine it influencing him, after all he's said it himself that Osha's actress made her reconsider the character and how to write about her in the upcoming books.

[Cas Stark]

The thing about Ros is mentioned on multiple websites, it's originally from an video interview I think. GRRM has his part in making of the show and it's not too hard to imagine it influencing him, after all he's said it himself that Osha's actress made her reconsider the character and how to write about her in the upcoming books.

I guess I see that a little differently, him finding the characterization so vivid it inspires him to give an existing character a larger role, than something like writing "Ros" into the story only because she appeared on the show or writing in other characters that were created by the show.

Yes, I think the show is influencing his writing and I think it's a shame, it's reason number one why at the end of the day it is likely going to turn out to have been a bad idea to sell the rights to a story that was not yet finished, however good the show is.

[Annara Snow]

He stated it. I cannot find the interview right now, but he said he'll like to give Ros a small cameo in the books.

Now, the key is...when did he say that? Because maybe he didn't know she was going to die.

I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, I think you may have just mixed it up with what he said about Osha. People misremember and misquote interviews all the time, it's always necessary to go back and check the source.

[Ingelheim]

I guess I see that a little differently, him finding the characterization so vivid it inspires him to give an existing character a larger role, than something like writing "Ros" into the story only because she appeared on the show or writing in other characters that were created by the show.

Yes, I think the show is influencing his writing and I think it's a shame, it's reason number one why at the end of the day it is likely going to turn out to have been a bad idea to sell the rights to a story that was not yet finished, however good the show is.

In 1605, when Cervantes published the first part of Don Quixote, he didn't intend to write a second. The book was an instant success, although he still was quite a poor man.

But, actually, experts and many readers find the second part far better than the first one. And do you know why he wrote it? External influences.

Cervantes was an enemy of Lope de Vega (one of the best poets and writers in the history of Spanish Literature), and Cervantes had insulted him in the prologue of the first part. Some random writer, known admirer of Lope, decided to write himself a second part: it would be called El Quijote de Avellaneda, which means Avellaneda's Quixote. It's actually an excellent book, but not even close to the quality of Cervantes' work. This happened in 1614.

Cervantes, furious, finished the second part in just a few months (some said he had already started writing it; other experts say the opposite), and he published it in 1615. This part is considered a far improvement. Now, Don Quixote is the best work in Spanish Literature, maybe even the best work ever written. He died a few months later, like Shakespeare, in 1616.

External influences aren't always bad. Sometimes it even helps.

[Ingelheim]

I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, I think you may have just mixed it up with what he said about Osha. People misremember and misquote interviews all the time, it's always necessary to go back and check the source.

Both ASOIAF wiki and GOT wiki have this as true. I remember it's an interview with Martin, not written, just a video. I'll post it when I find it.

[Annara Snow]

^ Not a similar case. GRRM always had the entire story in mind, it's the details that grew in the telling. He was always going to tell essentially the same narrative, but it went from one book to trilogy to 7 books. It's not like he meant AGOT or ASOS to be the end of the story.

And the TV show is especially unlikely to influence him, since he already had 5 books written and some chapters that are going to be in the 6th at the time the show started. Plus the show is diverging from the books, and GRRM already has to keep all the details in his mind while writing. He's said that writing a script for the show is complicated because he has to go back to an earlier part of the story he wrote years ago, keep in mind the differences from the book and stick to the show versions of characters - and then go back to writing the books.

[Annara Snow]

Both ASOIAF wiki and GOT wiki have this as true. I remember it's an interview with Martin, not written, just a video. I'll post it when I find it.

And neither of them is 100% reliable. If they are stating that, they should have a link or a reference to the source.

[HodoringHodor]

^ Not a similar case. GRRM always had the entire story in mind, it's the details that grew in the telling. He was always going to tell essentially the same narrative, but it went from one book to trilogy to 7 books. It's not like he meant AGOT or ASOS to be the end of the story.

And the TV show is especially unlikely to influence him, since he already had 5 books written and some chapters that are going to be in the 6th at the time the show started. Plus the show is diverging from the books, and GRRM already has to keep all the details in his mind while writing. He's said that writing a script for the show is complicated because he has to go back to an earlier part of the story he wrote years ago, keep in mind the differences from the book and stick to the show versions of characters - and then go back to writing the books.

I'd imagine the influences are how he views certain characters and that sort of things. I doubt he's going to change anything major because of the show, but since he's a relatively big part in the show - attending castings, writing scripts, talking about the scripts and so on - it's really difficult if not impossible for it to have zero effect on him.

[Cas Stark]

In 1605, when Cervantes published the first part of Don Quixote, he didn't intend to write a second. The book was an instant success, although he still was quite a poor man.

But, actually, experts and many readers find the second part far better than the first one. And do you know why he wrote it? External influences.

Cervantes was an enemy of Lope de Vega (one of the best poets and writers in the history of Spanish Literature), and Cervantes had insulted him in the prologue of the first part. Some some random writer, known, admirer of Lope, decided to write himself a second part: it would be called El Quijote de Avellaneda, which means Avellaneda's Quixote. It's actually an excellent book, but not even close to the quality of Cervantes' work. This happened in 1614.

Cervantes, furious, finished the second part in just a few months (some said he had already started writing it; other experts say the opposite), and he published it in 1615. This part is considered a far improvement. Now, Don Quixote is the best work in Spanish Literature, maybe even the best work ever written. He died a few months after, like Shakespeare, in 1616.

External influences aren't always bad. Sometimes it even helps.

The world needs both 'glass half full' and 'glass half empty' people, to maintain balance. I, leaning toward the 'glass half empty' side, see a lot of possible pitfalls in the situation as it exists right now, I see a lot of negative ways that the books could be influenced, but that's me. I'll try to think Cervantes when I need a boost.

[Ingelheim]

^ Not a similar case. GRRM always had the entire story in mind, it's the details that grew in the telling. He was always going to tell essentially the same narrative, but it went from one book to trilogy to 7 books. It's not like he meant AGOT or ASOS to be the end of the story.

And the TV show is especially unlikely to influence him, since he already had 5 books written and some chapters that are going to be in the 6th at the time the show started. Plus the show is diverging from the books, and GRRM already has to keep all the details in his mind while writing. He's said that writing a script for the show is complicated because he has to go back to an earlier part of the story he wrote years ago, keep in mind the differences from the book and stick to the show versions of characters - and then go back to writing the books.

No. He hadn't finished ADWD when the first season of GOT started, even less when they started filming it.