Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-read Project Part V: ADWD

[MoIaF]

We have to hold off for a few days on new chapters so that we can all catch up. There is plenty to discuss with the 3 last chapters posted for at least 3 or 4 more days. Is that ok? If we move the dates of the remaining upcoming chapters back a little?

This sounds perfect. Let me work on re-arranging the schedule.

I'm okay with that. I know a few people have said that they need to get caught up on the non-Dany chapters.

I'm one of them. ;)

[MoIaF]

Schedule Change

This is an alternate reading schedule, please let me know if this works out for you all (especially those who have to do the analysis).. Thanks!

OLD NEW

Tyrion XII 9/10/14 Suzanna Stormborn 9/13/14

Quentyn IV 9/12/14 Queen Alysanne 9/17/14

Barristan I 9/14/14 Parwan 9/21/14
Barristan II 9/17/14 Parwan 9/25/14
Barristan II 9/19/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 9/30/14
Barristan IV 9/21/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 10/5/14

Daenerys X 9/23/14 QueenAlysanne 10/12/14

[HexMachina]

That would be much better for me, I will be able to post my analysis myself then

[MoIaF]

MOIAF, Dany, Missandei, and Ser Barristan are pretty much alone in hating the fighting pits. Everyone else loves them, freed slaves as much as Great Masters. Irri and Jhiqi are just products of that culture. They're not especially stupid, simply Missandei is a child prodigy. I do find the relationship between her and Dany very touching. She's become a kind of younger sister.

The fighting pits are quite different to the tournaments and melees of Westeros. In the former, slaves, or ex-slaves, and animals fight to death. The latter can be lethal, or result in serious injuries, but it's the upper classes demonstrating their courage and fighting skills to the lower classes.

Dany's liking for the Dothraki probably has much to do with their personal courage. If you threatened a Master, he'd scream for his slaves and bodyguards to defend him. if you threatened a Dothraki, he'd tell you to bring it on.

I don't mind the tournaments where skilled warriors fight each other and rarely one will die from injuries. Firstly because they are almost always skilled and well trained warriors and secondly the tournament is a way to display their skill not to kill an opponent for the joy of killing.

I think that's what really bothers Dany, the senseless and barbaric nature of the pits, where you kill someone for sport.

About the Dothraki you are probably right that one of the things Dany would admire is that they fight their own battles.

After seeing what the pits are all about (up close and personal) I do wonder how Dany will see the Dothraki when it comes to fighting for fighting sake when it comes to weddings and gatherings of such.

[MoIaF]

That would be much better for me, I will be able to post my analysis myself then

Awesome, glad that works out for you. :cheers:

[BearQueen87]

I don't mind the tournaments where skilled warriors fight each other and rarely one will die from injuries. Firstly because they are almost always skilled and well trained warriors and secondly the tournament is a way to display their skill not to kill an opponent for the joy of killing.

For example: the tourney of the Hand in aGoT. We see The Mountain deliberately set out to kill Ser Hugh of the Vale and the onlookers are horrified when it happens, screaming and running to and fro. They aren't there to celebrate violence but rather the idea of chilvery and knightliness. In Meereen...it's all about the blood, where anyone can be "meat for the heroes."

After seeing what the pits are all about (up close and personal) I do wonder how Dany will see the Dothraki when it comes to fighting for fighting sake when it comes to weddings and gatherings of such.

Same. There seems to be an opinion on the forums that Dany cannot change Dothraki culture and bring them to her side. That argument has merit because change does not happen over night, but I think those naysayers are forgetting a few things. First, Dany has a dragon. You have a dragon and people tend to do what you say. And two, if Dany (or I guess even Drogon) become the STMTW, then they'll follow their promised khal(eesi) because that's what prophecy dictates.

[MoIaF]

I wanted to comment on the arrangement of the seating in the pit, I think it shows the social status of everyone in Meereen at the moment.

She had seen the fighting pits many times from her terrace. The small ones dotted the face of Meereen like pockmarks; the larger were weeping sores, red and raw. None compared to this one, though. Strong Belwas and Ser Barristan fell in to either side as she and her lord husband passed beneath the bronzes, to emerge at the top of a great brick bowl ringed by descending tiers of benches, each a different color. Hizdahr zo Loraq led her down, through black, purple, blue, green, white, yellow, and orange to the red, where the scarlet bricks took the color of the sands below.

Across the pit the Graces sat in flowing robes of many colors, clustered around the austere figure of Galazza Galare, who alone amongst them wore the green. The Great Masters of Meereen occupied the red and orange benches. The women were veiled, and the men had brushed and lacquered their hair into horns and hands and spikes. Hizdahr’s kin of the ancient line of Loraq seemed to favor tokars of purple and indigo and lilac, whilst those of Pahl were striped in pink and white. The envoys from Yunkai were all in yellow and filled the box beside the king’s, each of them with his slaves and servants. Meereenese of lesser birth crowded the upper tiers, more distant from the carnage. The black and purple benches, highest and most distant from the sand, were crowded with freedmen and other common folk. The sellswords had been placed up there as well, Daenerys saw, their captains seated right amongst the common soldiers.

This seating arrangement shows that the freedmen tied with the common folk are of the lowest social status, them being grouped with sellswords also shows they are seen as foreigners and not part of the city just like sellswords. This goes back to TMO's example of the freed slaves being in a similar spectrum to the African Americans after slavery was abolished in the United States, just like the African amercans despite freedom the freedmen are still not as equal as the rest of the citizens It also explains why the Sons of the Harpy kill every freeman that is rising up in the social hierachy of Meereen.

Excellent observation.

I would also add that had this been Westeros the seating would not have been much different from the Lords tot he Smallfolk. She sees this segragation in Meeereen, how would she react to it in Westeros, Io wonder.

For example: the tourney of the Hand in aGoT. We see The Mountain deliberately set out to kill Ser Hugh of the Vale and the onlookers are horrified when it happens, screaming and running to and fro. They aren't there to celebrate violence but rather the idea of chilvery and knightliness. In Meereen...it's all about the blood, where anyone can be "meat for the heroes."

Exactly, it's about the skill and the tradition of it. The battlefield is one thing but this is a "proper" event, that kind of violence has no place there.

Same. There seems to be an opinion on the forums that Dany cannot change Dothraki culture and bring them to her side. That argument has merit because change does not happen over night, but I think those naysayers are forgetting a few things. First, Dany has a dragon. You have a dragon and people tend to do what you say. And two, if Dany (or I guess even Drogon) become the STMTW, then they'll follow their promised khal(eesi) because that's what prophecy dictates.

I'm one of those discussing this on a different thread.

It's not like we expect Dany to somehow completely change Dothraki culture but I don't think it's unreasonable to think she will have substantial influence among her khalsar. Both for the reasons you mentioned and because they won't be the only army she has, she has a very large group of highly discipline Unsullied to help her maintain some order.

ETA:

Can I also add that Dany has shown she can get the Dothraki to do what she wants and we have seen this with her small khalasar. I think her getting them to get on a boat was a huge deal that many overlook.

[MoIaF]

Nice job MoIaF!! I agree, light chapter but sets up a very tragic chapter to follow.

Thanks! :)

It was Suzanna Stormborn who pointed out in the first Quentyn chapter how dire the opening sentence was: "Adventure stank." Here , in this chapter, we have a similar set up:

In other words, the death of this POV character is almost at hand.

We have a lot of discussion around this forum about foreshadowing and I think this is an excellent indication of how GRRM foreshadows. He's actually really clear about it. Some try to make it out to be more cryptic but I think if we objectively look at the text the moments have foreshadowing should have been clear to the reader. Of course they'reusually clear after the moment has passed. ;)

Yes. And I think that this sort of senseless violence is a clue that if Dany wants to effect real change in SB before she heads to Westeros, then it has to be forced. Because her other option is to let SB fall back into the kind of horrific violence that we see in this chapter, the kind of violence Tyrion sees in his chapter when he's sold AND when he escapes slavery. These people don't want the kind of change Dany offers so if she's serious about ending slavery (and I think she is) she has to be the Dragon Queen not the Mother. And I know people fear that that Fire and Blood means only death and destruction, but if there's a theme for Dany throughout all of this, it's that fire is also life and "there is great healing power in fire."

Going back to one of the themes we have been discussing throughout Dany's ADWD arc is Dany's inability to encompass the different roles she has acquired/been given. In her mind she always thinks that if she's one thing she can't be the other but in order to succeed I believe she'll have to learn how to weave these different mantles and use them as they are necessary.

In order to be a Mhysa to her people she has to be a strong Dragon Queen in order to protect them It's the dichotomy of the dragon to both destroy and create. Yes, the dragon destroys but from those ashes something new and better can be created.

I've often wondered why this book was called A Dance with Dragons. At first, when the title was announced I thought it meant the Dance of Dragons 2.0. And then...not so much. But so much of this book is about people trying to get to Dany's dragons: Tyrion, Vic, Quentyn, Moqorro, fAegon and JonCon, an even non-POV or secondary characters like BBP. (the other part of it is Jon and how he's handing his own dance). But in almost every case I just listed, it isn't about Dany her very self. It's about her dragons and what they can do for those individuals. Tyrion will help Dany in whatever way he can, but only if she gives him what he wants--Casterly Rock and revenge. Vic will take Dany for a wife, but fully intends on taking her dragons. Quentyn would marry Dany if he must, but it's the dragon he wants. And so on and so forth.

I think that the Dance of Dragons 2.0 won't be anything like the original and that a more complex dance is in mind. That is, for the first dance many of the elements currently at play weren't present. Most important of these in the impending arrival of the Others.

2) "I am a prince of Dorne, and the blood of dragons is in my veins."

This was something that I think Suzanna was talking about in RLJ, v. 103. The idea that people can have blood of the dragon, but it takes an extra special gene or trait to tame/ride a dragon. Quentyn does not have it; Dany does. Whoever rides Viserion and Rhaegal cannot just have dragon blood, they must have that extra special something.

All (metaphorical) dragons are Targaryen but not all Targaryens are (metaphorical) dragons. Whatever je ne sais quoi Dany has which allowed her to hatch and ride the dragons was obviously not part of Quentyn’s genetic makeup or Viserys for that matter.

[Parwan]

Schedule Change

This is an alternate reading schedule, please let me know if this works out for you all (especially those who have to do the analysis).. Thanks!

OLD NEW

Tyrion XII 9/10/14 Suzanna Stormborn 9/13/14

Quentyn IV 9/12/14 Queen Alysanne 9/17/14

Barristan I 9/14/14 Parwan 9/21/14

Barristan II 9/17/14 Parwan 9/25/14

Barristan II 9/19/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 9/30/14

Barristan IV 9/21/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 10/5/14

Daenerys X 9/23/14 QueenAlysanne 10/12/14

That's fine with me.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Quentyn III

“The Spurned Suitor”

ANALYSIS

The Great Divide

Gerris laughed. “A pity we have none. Do you trust this peace, Quent? I don’t. Half the city is calling the dragonslayer a hero, and the other half spits blood at the mention of his name.”

We see that the divide amongst the people of Meereen is not only between the rich but also those who want to return to the old ways for one reason or other.

It’s hard for some to break out of a way of life that they have either grown up with or become accustomed to.

As Quentyn and his companions enter the safe house they observe that two naked men are fighting to the death, while the crowd cheers. There is a primitive sort of desire for some to continue the life of violence that they lived with before Daenerys arrived. It’s a senseless sort of violence. While Dany has displayed violence in her conquering, it’s been for a noble purpose, once again seeing the two sides of the coin.

All I want is a princes, no, a dragon!

“They do not see. His friends had lost sight of his true purpose here. The road leads through her, not to her. Daenerys is the means to the prize, not the prize itself.”

Although Quenty mean Dany no harm these thoughts are quite telling: she is the means to the prize, not the prize itself.

Once again we see yet another young man (hello there Young Griff) wanting to get to Dany only for what she can bring to them not for who she is. Sadly, they are not the only ones who see Dany in this way.

I think there are few people who truly and genuinely love Dany for who she is and not for what she can do for them or for what she represents.

The Blood of the dragon? Really?

“You cannot tame a dragon with a history lesson. They’re monsters, not maesters.”

“That, and my own destiny. I am a prince of Dorne, and the blood of dragons is in my veins.”

This idea of Quentyn to steal the dragons shows us that he’s too young or naive to face reality. Had he been more mature he would have realized that there was nothing he could have done differently, circumstances were just not in his favor.

His idea of stealing a dragon is childish and ill-conceived, a song he’s telling himself he can accomplish.

Dany might tell herself she is the blood of the dragon in order to give herself courage in a difficult situation, however, she was always well aware that the dragons were very dangerous. Even as she faced Drogon in the put she was terrified but did it in order to save lives.

Excellent Analysis MOIAF!!

All the quotes you mentioned are exactly what I would have mentioned as well. And I agree with you about Quentyn. He is using 'the drop of dragon blood' to talk himself into something that he is not capable of. ANd I think it is stupid to think that because he has a Targrayen ancestor 8 or 9 generations back in his family that he will be able to tame/ride a dragon. Poor guy, he is just trying to hype himself up, but the thing is, this is an act he is not capable of IMO. maybe he is trying to put on a brave face, but he is scared to death right now, and has been the whole time. I feel bad for him.

Nice job MoIaF!! I agree, light chapter but sets up a very tragic chapter to follow.

It was Suzanna Stormborn who pointed out in the first Quentyn chapter how dire the opening sentence was: "Adventure stank." Here , in this chapter, we have a similar set up:

In other words, the death of this POV character is almost at hand.

2) "I am a prince of Dorne, and the blood of dragons is in my veins."

This was something that I think Suzanna was talking about in RLJ, v. 103. The idea that people can have blood of the dragon, but it takes an extra special gene or trait to tame/ride a dragon. Quentyn does not have it; Dany does. Whoever rides Viserion and Rhaegal cannot just have dragon blood, they must have that extra special something.

Ok I have been thinking about this more and more and have come to a conclusion. and it's pretty simple really. Targaryen/Dragonlord blood is required to ride a dragon, Ran said. OK so if Targaryen blood is what is required then the more Targaryen blood you have, the better your chances are right? I mean that is the only conclusion that makes any sense. Dany is almost 100%. Quentyn would be (I am not 100% on the Dorne family tree) .75% targ blood at the most. That is 1/128th or 1/256th, which is just not enough if you ask me. That much Targ blood is nothing special, anyone on the planet could have that much. So yeah, IMO, Quentyn is kind of stupid to think that his tiny tiny amount of Valyrian blood will be enough. That would be like me claiming to be a Cherokee Indian because my dad's great grandmother was a full-blood Cherokee. It's just not true. Closer you are to at least 50% Targ blood, the better for you.

Great analysis MoIaF! :)

I agree with your first observation. There is a distinct divide in Meereen after Dany leaves, and this becomes even more apparent in Barristan I. Hizdhar may have wanted to be King, but he sorely underestimated how important Dany was to his rule.

In addition to this, I'd like to point out that Zahrina is a slaver - she is the woman who bids on Tyrion. Clearly, there is still slavery in Meereen, despite Dany's efforts to stop it. It is not really all that surprising, that the slaver's persist in their ways.

A little nod to the next chapter was here too, imo:

Oh how apt these words are. Poor Qunetyn.

Great analysis MOIAF.

I like your point on the "divide"

I think TMO pointed out earlier that the situation in Meereen is similar to the United States after slavery was abolished and there was a sense of division between African-Americans and White Americans,.It's kind of a segregrated society at the moment and as Dany left it will only get worse."

I also believe courage and bravery is as important as having "dragonlord blood". In Barristan's chapter we will see later, Quentyn was described as shaking when trying to tame the dragon.

Also in the last chapter when Dany visits her dragons they get angry when they see both her and Quentyn are afraid and Dany describes her voice as "a girl rather than a conqueror"

We also have Viserys I statement in the "Rogue Prince" that Aemon can get a dragon "as long as he is brave enough" or something along those lines.

Also great point on fire as a healer as well as a destroyer :thumbsup:

Yes Bravery is a very important part of this as well, which Quentyn is lacking. Absolutely nothing like Aemond in TRP, sure he was a huge douche, but he tackled the biggest living dragon with no fear at all. That's the way to do it.

Bravery is definitely an important part of taming a dragon. I don't really want to go too much into it now, because it is more relevant in Dany IX and The Dragontamer, but we see that much like wild animals in the real world, the dragons seem able to sense fear, and react aggressively in response to this. But more of that when those chapters are posted ;)

Good analysis. I just want to add something. I really don't see THAT bad that many people want Dany for their dragons, and I don't see why Quaithe needs to warn her about that in such an ambiguous way.

For instance, when Sansa is told that they only want her for her claim to Winterfell, well, that wasn't really that different when her father was alive: they would have married her in order to make an alliance to Winterfell (had the King not intervened and betrothed her to Joffrey). But, that doesn't mean she was going to be mistreated or hurt in any way. Ned and Cat were married to make an alliance and, while they were no dragons involved, such a bond is created so the families could benefit from each other. And they ended up being happy together either way.

I do understand that Dany is naive, but she has already lived what is to be married as a transaction, she was "sold" by Viserys to have an army. In the same way, any suitor won't get closer to her because she's the most beautiful woman in the world: everybody wants something from her and in this case, it's the dragons. She knew that since she was in Qarth, when she saw how people was attracted to them, but not to her. It's odd that Quaithe has to tell her this, like it's news, when in fact, she's making him more wary than what she should be. Look what happened to her father.

Yes! I am not a fan of all Quaithe's warning and prophecies, IMO they help nothing, they make people obsess and get paranoid, Dany thinks far too often about the 3 treasons IMO. She should not be worried about that shit.

I think one of the major differences here is that the men who want Dany only for dragons aren't really going to be treating her kindly. Victarion wants to take her and marry her, whether she wishes it or no, and not only for her dragons but to seek revenge on his brother Euron. Tyrion wouldn't give two figs for Dany if he didn't think she was his best option to getting Casterly Rock. I don't think he'd mistreat Dany, just like he never mistreated Sansa, but it would not be a loving or even tolerable match. Though, I have high hopes for them working politically together. Aegon was under the impression that Dany should just bend the knee to him because he has the better claim but yet he really knew nothing of her. Moqorro doesn't want her sexually, but what happens if Dany refuses the Red God? Quentyn is the odd duck out who would have treated her kindly and fairly but he's too much of a mud man.

I think she does know that people will always want her for her dragons, but the problem is that none of them want her.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Schedule Change

This is an alternate reading schedule, please let me know if this works out for you all (especially those who have to do the analysis).. Thanks!

OLD NEW

Tyrion XII 9/10/14 Suzanna Stormborn 9/13/14

Quentyn IV 9/12/14 Queen Alysanne 9/17/14

Barristan I 9/14/14 Parwan 9/21/14

Barristan II 9/17/14 Parwan 9/25/14

Barristan II 9/19/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 9/30/14

Barristan IV 9/21/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 10/5/14

Daenerys X 9/23/14 QueenAlysanne 10/12/14

That's great! thank you :)

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Schedule Change

This is an alternate reading schedule, please let me know if this works out for you all (especially those who have to do the analysis).. Thanks!

OLD NEW

Tyrion XII 9/10/14 Suzanna Stormborn 9/13/14

Quentyn IV 9/12/14 Queen Alysanne 9/17/14

Barristan I 9/14/14 Parwan 9/21/14

Barristan II 9/17/14 Parwan 9/25/14

Barristan II 9/19/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 9/30/14

Barristan IV 9/21/14 HelenaAndTheMachine 10/5/14

Daenerys X 9/23/14 QueenAlysanne 10/12/14

Yes! Works out well!

[MoIaF]

Great analysis MoIaF! :)

Thank you! :D

I agree with your first observation. There is a distinct divide in Meereen after Dany leaves, and this becomes even more apparent in Barristan I. Hizdhar may have wanted to be King, but he sorely underestimated how important Dany was to his rule.

It's like a civil war is brewing inside. There might be more to the war in Meereen than we might expect. Perhaps after the War of Fire we'll see the internal turmoil of Meereen erupt into a full-fledged civil war.

In addition to this, I'd like to point out that Zahrina is a slaver - she is the woman who bids on Tyrion. Clearly, there is still slavery in Meereen, despite Dany's efforts to stop it. It is not really all that surprising, that the slaver's persist in their ways.

Really great observation and a great example of how easily Dany's abolition of slavery has eroded by her appeasement of the Ghis.

I think one of the major differences here is that the men who want Dany only for dragons aren't really going to be treating her kindly. Victarion wants to take her and marry her, whether she wishes it or no, and not only for her dragons but to seek revenge on his brother Euron. Tyrion wouldn't give two figs for Dany if he didn't think she was his best option to getting Casterly Rock. I don't think he'd mistreat Dany, just like he never mistreated Sansa, but it would not be a loving or even tolerable match. Though, I have high hopes for them working politically together. Aegon was under the impression that Dany should just bend the knee to him because he has the better claim but yet he really knew nothing of her. Moqorro doesn't want her sexually, but what happens if Dany refuses the Red God? Quentyn is the odd duck out who would have treated her kindly and fairly but he's too much of a mud man.

I think she does know that people will always want her for her dragons, but the problem is that none of them want her.

This! It's not like Dany will not have people around her who want to be around her for what she can provide for them, that happens when you have power. I think Quaithe's warning serves as a reminder to Dany to be careful of who she trust, because as we know Dany still has trouble finding the right people to trust (hello Green Grace).

Of course she shouldn't fixate on the fact that people will betray her, because it'll always happen because of who she is (a powerful person) but she should be wary of trusting people she does not know. I think Tyrion's warning to Young Griff is correct, trust no one, at least not until you know them.

I don't truly trust people until I've known them for some time and I can see what kind of people they are.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Excellent observation.

I would also add that had this been Westeros the seating would not have been much different from the Lords tot he Smallfolk. She sees this segragation in Meeereen, how would she react to it in Westeros, Io wonder.

I'm looking forward to that aswell, Dany's backround of living on the run tends to let her look at smallfolk/smaller things when observing things, just like in Qarth when she saw the cutpurse. The ordinary westerosi noble would have only noticed/ kept focus on the "higher ups"

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Daenerys IX

“Drogon rose, his wings covering her in shadow.”

Dany has finally removed her floppy ears and as she does so her dragon Drogon appears in the pit. Perhaps it was coincidence but perhaps not. The previous night during her reception Dany was becoming more anxious with all the compromises made to the Yunkai, especially the slave market outside her walls, it could be that Drogon sensed this growing frustration and perhaps could feel that it would continue to fester until it erupted in Dany.

I just want to go back and discuss the similar manners in which Drogon and Dany are described.

From the day Drogon was hatched:

“Unafraid , Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.”

“The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world.”

The day Dany was born:

“She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart.

They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea.”

Both of their birth are described as earth shattering events. Both of them being two forces of nature, it’s why they called Dany Stormborn. Now, in this chapter Drogon is described as follows:

“He flapped them once as he swept back above the sands, and the sound was like a clap of thunder.”

GRRM has been drawing parallels between Drogon and Dany aside from the most obvious ones we know. This leads us to the events in the pits where Drogon is pieced in the back by a spear:

“Dany and Drogon screamed as one.”

My personally belief is that Dany gave a part of herself to hatch Drogon, as he only hatch after she walked into the pyre (the other two dragons had already began to hatch).

I think the description of having them both scream as one shows a much deeper bond then the one she shares with her other dragons. They feel each others pain and emotions. To me there is not coincidence that Drogon appeared at the pit when he did, he knew that Dany was reaching her boiling point, he could feel it.

Birth of a Dragonlord

“His eyes were molten. I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away. She had never been so certain of anything. If I run from him, he will burn me and devour me”

As fearful as Dany is of Drogon she know she can’t back down or he’ll eat her. At this point she needs to show him that she is worthy of being his rider. I don’t think that dragons make judgements about whether or not their riders are good or evil but they do make judgment about whether or not a person is worthy of riding them.

This brings to mind the difference between a dragon bond and a warging bond. In order to ride a dragon they need to accept you as their rider, it seems to be a more balanced bond between human and animal familiar. It’s an understanding between the two parties.

On the other hand you have warging which in most occasion is an enslavement of the mind of an animal and int he more extreme cases (Bran and Hodor) an enslavement of another human being and in the most perverse case (the Others and Wights) and enslavement of the dead.

“He is fire made flesh, she thought, and so am I. Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon’s back, seized the spear, and ripped it out.”

Going back to the taming of Drogon, in the heat of the moment as she is trying to control him she accepts who she is, she says to herself that like Drogon she is fire made flesh.

“Dany could feel the heat of him between her thighs. Her heart felt as if it were about to burst. Yes, she thought, yes, now, now, do it, do it, take me, take me, FLY!”

This part of the bonding it’s sexual in nature, she could feel the heat between her thighs, she asks him to take her (flying, but still take her). It’s this jointing of the two bodies of the two souls. We will see later Dany describe her flying on Drogon’s back as being whole.

CONCLUSION

This is a very interesting chapter, Dany goes from her lowest of lows to riding a dragon. She begins the chapter resigned to the fate she chose in order to reach some abstract notion of peace, but as the day progresses she realizes that everything she fought for and sacrificed is slipping to her fingers. When she finally decides that she can’t take it anymore, her alter ego, her dragon Drogon finally appears from his bidding place to confront her, to see if she will own up to who she is. She does and he allows her to fly on his back and become his rider.

Love this analysis MOIAF!!!

Obvi one of my favorite chapters....How could it not be?

I feel the same way you do, that Drogon showing up right then was not just a coincidence. I doubt he would have come to the pit at all if Dany had not been there, even to eat a boar. However it does seem like Drogon doesnt really know what's going on at all, he doesnt realize he is in danger, he does not really seem to recognize Dany when she first sees him. However it is very clear that they are in fact bonded, they scream as one when he gets hurt. then a few minutes later she is able to tame and ride him, but it does take some work on her part. IDK, it's all very confusing.

We see many things happening here; Dany does have to show him she is not scared, and her inner monologue shows us just that. SHe is not nervous or anxious, she is reacting on instinct, on her dragonlord instinct, same as she knew to put the eggs on the brazier, she knows how to handle Drogon in this situation. Not only all that, but she is literally out there to protect him. Man I cannot wait to see this scene on HBO!!! Yanks off her pearl tokar in her little high-society VIP box with daintily clad Hizzy right next to her and Guards everywhere, but she doesnt hesitate, just immediately jumps over the ledge into the sane where people are dying and a dragon is rampaging from being attacked. She just switches from Queen to Indiana Jones in one second, no hesitation. This is why I love her, what is wrong with all the people who dont love her, can anyone imagine Cersei jumping out of box like this? Or Stannis? Or Doran? Dany's got it goin on!!!!! #loveit

Ok so not only all that coolness, but here, again, we see a very strong example of Dany's higher heat tolerance, plus the clincher that it is in fact just a high tolerance and not fire-proof. She gets blisters on her hands from grabbing the spear from Drogons back. Even though she doesnt feel it or flinch at all when she grabs it, some of that is adrenaline I am sure, but I grabbed a wire hanger out of a fire one time, and immediately dropped it, screamed and cried, definitely didnt grab hard and pull it out of something, IMO that would have been impossible because it hurt sooooooo bad. SO obviously she has a much higher tolerance to heat than I freaking do. But not only that. There is the instant where drogon breath is 'hot enough to blister' yet it does not blister Dany. and in the Quentyn 'Dragon Tamer' chapter, Quentyn gets a face full of the hot breath yet it completely sets him on fire, with Dany it does not. By the time her and Drogon fly off together her clothes are in tatters and her hair is ON FIRE. there are at least 3 different accounts of people seeing her fly off with her hair afire. Yet it does not burn her scalp or face, just like the pyre.

[HexMachina]

Some more stuff from Daenery IX

Three treasons shall you know. She [MMD] was the first, Jorah was the second, Brown Ben Plumm the third. Was she done with betrayals?

This is one effect of The Undying's warnings, and fairly naive on Dany's part. For one, she may not correctly have identified the betrayals - particularly Jorah, who certainly didn't betray her for love. In fact, he stopped betraying her for love. So she is clearly wrong there. In addition to this, Dany is assuming that because The Undying spoke of three specific betrayals, she only needs to fear being betrayed three times. This is obviously a very naive and foolish stance to take.

Pale Qartheen, black Summer Islanders, copper-skinned Dothraki, Tyroshi with blue beards, Lamb Men, Jogos Nhai, sullen Braavosi, brindle-skinned half-men from the jungles of Sothoros—from the ends of the world they came to die in Daznak’s Pit.

Braavosi? You mean, people from Braavos, where slavery is outlawed, half way around the world in the slavery capital of GRRth just to "willingly" take part in this blood sport? I'm not all that convinced. The variety of people who fight in the Pit suggests to me that at the very least, some are not there willingly and are likely slaves. It is a long way to come from the Summer Isles just to die.

“This one shows much promise, my sweet,” Hizdahr said of a Lysene youth with long blond hair that fluttered in the wind … but his foe grabbed a handful of that hair, pulled the boy off-balance, and gutted him. In death he looked even younger than he had with blade in hand.

“A boy,” said Dany. “He was only a boy.”

“Six-and-ten,” Hizdahr insisted. “A man grown, who freely chose to risk his life for gold and glory.

I'm not really one for foreshadowing, but I must say this brings to mind Young Griff. Varys "sells" him to Aegon as a boy King of great promise and potential. If it is intended as foreshadowing, I believe it suggests that despite his promise, he will ultimately be thrown down and killed.

After the beast fights came a mock battle, pitting six men on foot against six horsemen, the former armed with shields and longswords, the latter with Dothraki arakhs. The mock knights were clad in mail hauberks, whilst the mock Dothraki wore no armor. At first the riders seemed to have the advantage, riding down two of their foes and slashing the ear from a third, but then the surviving knights began to attack the horses, and one by one the riders were unmounted and slain, to Jhiqui’s great disgust. “That was no true khalasar,” she said.

I think this goes back to what we discussed recently, about the Dothraki and their limited use in Westeros. Against well armoured knights, the Dothraki are not so formidable as they could be, which we also see when Jorah fights with Drogo's bloodrider. They would not be the ideal force for Dany in Westeros, imo.

The boar buried his snout in Barsena’s belly and began rooting out her entrails. The smell was more than the queen could stand.

Again, there seems only to be a problem with eating human flesh when Dany's dragon is involved. Nobody remarks on it when it is Khrazz or the boar.

A queer look passed across Hizdahr zo Loraq’s long, pale face—part fear, part lust, part rapture. He licked his lips.

We know that usually, Hizdhar has "placid eyes" and this hides the true nature of Hizdhar beneath (i.e. a Harpy/Harpy's Son)

The king’s mouth tightened. For a heartbeat Dany thought she saw a flash of anger in those placid eyes. “As you command.” Hizdahr beckoned to his pitmaster. “No lions,” he said when the man trotted over, whip in hand

The arrival of the dragon brings out conflicting emotions in Hizdhar - he lusts after the power it represents, fears its' strength (and by extension, Dany's strength). And yet again, now that his mask has slipped he will show his true colours:

“Kill it,” Hizdahr zo Loraq shouted to the other spearmen. “Kill the beast!”

Later, we will see the Yunkai'i demand that Rhaegal and Viserion are killed. Hizdhar will dither and dather and pretend to be reluctant, but here we see that he is anything but.

Ser Barristan held her tightly. “Look away, Your Grace.”

Barristan, I love you, but F*** you right now.

He is again trying to shelter Dany from brutal realities (as with Robert;s Rebellion and her father - he will dither and delay as much as he can so he doesn't have to tell her the harsh truth)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Many thanks, MoIaF. This is a fine chapter.

If I may jump ahead, it seems clear to me, after reading this, that Drogon isn't going to fly away and abandon Daenerys at the start of the next book. The pair of them are now bound together for the rest of their lives. That's not the same thing as a dragon being totally obedient to its rider. But, Drogon would surely react very violently to threats towards her.

While it's no coincidence that Drogon should have returned, at that point, he was still furious towards her. Had she run, he'd have killed her. Presumably, he saw the attempt to chain him up months previously as a betrayal.

Dragons aren't invincible (as we see from TPATQ) but even one as young as Drogon is very hard to kill. He survives a spear thrust, and numerous crossbow bolts, with no more than minor injuries.

Those are very good points SeanF :)

yes I think you are right, there is no way Drogon is leaving her in the lurch when the Dothraki appear. He is hers now, all the way. I agree he was pissed at her, when he first lands in the pit and she tries to help him he is not very responsive to her, he felt neglected, lonely, angry, missing the piece that makes him whole. It's funny to think of a Dragon being angry at a person, but I would have to agree completely. The last time she saw him it was when she was trying to chain him up, what did she say about it? that they tried 2 or 3 times to catch him and that several people were burned during the process, I doubt that was a pretty afternoon. And it was the last time Dany saw him, after being chased he felt like he could not even be around her anymore, lost faith and trust in her. LOL and only her beating him whit a whip to show her love brought him back around. #dragonlove

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Some more stuff from Daenery IX

This is one effect of The Undying's warnings, and fairly naive on Dany's part. For one, she may not correctly have identified the betrayals - particularly Jorah, who certainly didn't betray her for love. In fact, he stopped betraying her for love. So she is clearly wrong there. In addition to this, Dany is assuming that because The Undying spoke of three specific betrayals, she only needs to fear being betrayed three times. This is obviously a very naive and foolish stance to take.

Braavosi? You mean, people from Braavos, where slavery is outlawed, half way around the world in the slavery capital of GRRth just to "willingly" take part in this blood sport? I'm not all that convinced. The variety of people who fight in the Pit suggests to me that at the very least, some are not there willingly and are likely slaves. It is a long way to come from the Summer Isles just to die.

I'm not really one for foreshadowing, but I must say this brings to mind Young Griff. Varys "sells" him to Aegon as a boy King of great promise and potential. If it is intended as foreshadowing, I believe it suggests that despite his promise, he will ultimately be thrown down and killed.

I think this goes back to what we discussed recently, about the Dothraki and their limited use in Westeros. Against well armoured knights, the Dothraki are not so formidable as they could be, which we also see when Jorah fights with Drogo's bloodrider. They would not be the ideal force for Dany in Westeros, imo.

Again, there seems only to be a problem with eating human flesh when Dany's dragon is involved. Nobody remarks on it when it is Khrazz or the boar.

We know that usually, Hizdhar has "placid eyes" and this hides the true nature of Hizdhar beneath (i.e. a Harpy/Harpy's Son)

The arrival of the dragon brings out conflicting emotions in Hizdhar - he lusts after the power it represents, fears its' strength (and by extension, Dany's strength). And yet again, now that his mask has slipped he will show his true colours:

Later, we will see the Yunkai'i demand that Rhaegal and Viserion are killed. Hizdhar will dither and dather and pretend to be reluctant, but here we see that he is anything but.

Barristan, I love you, but F*** you right now.

He is again trying to shelter Dany from brutal realities (as with Robert;s Rebellion and her father - he will dither and delay as much as he can so he doesn't have to tell her the harsh truth)

Very good points about Hizzy, I hadnt really thought about that before, he does drop his mask right then and turn into the vile Ghiscari that he is.

Yes also I agree about Barristan. Um dont try to shelter her right now dude! this is her moment to shine. She is the ONLY person here who can help the situation at all, unless you want hundreds of dead people and probably a dead dragon at the end, you need to let the 14 year old girl handle things right now.

And ya know, I think we have to give Drogona pass for eating Barsena.....He was coming for the boar seems like, there was a dead gutted body lying right there too, so it makes sense he would eat both of them. If he had killed the human to eat it that would be different, but as is, it was more a juxtaposition issue than a 'he eats people' issue.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

After seeing what the pits are all about (up close and personal) I do wonder how Dany will see the Dothraki when it comes to fighting for fighting sake when it comes to weddings and gatherings of such.

Yes I wonder as well. IMO there is a big difference between elected sports and what was happening in the pit. The fights which were between 2 free people who both knew what they were in for, no surprises, etc., I am fine with that. It is their choice 100%. but that is hardly all that is going on here is it? There are slaves being forced to fight, people fighting man-eating animals (which have been starved for a few days), all sorts of crazy shenanigans with unfair versus, and unexpected terrors. BEarQueen mentioned earlier about Rome. This is very similar to the coliseum and the Ghiscari are fairly similar to the Romans, there were even slaves revolts in Rome (which failed). And in both situations the people organizing use religion or 'the gods' as a scapegoat for their reasoning in doing it. It is very fucked up in both situations.

[BearQueen87]

Some more stuff from Daenery IX

This is one effect of The Undying's warnings, and fairly naive on Dany's part. For one, she may not correctly have identified the betrayals - particularly Jorah, who certainly didn't betray her for love. In fact, he stopped betraying her for love. So she is clearly wrong there. In addition to this, Dany is assuming that because The Undying spoke of three specific betrayals, she only needs to fear being betrayed three times. This is obviously a very naive and foolish stance to take.

Obviously, I very much agree. And I don't think BBP is one either; I think hes just a sell sword who does as they are wont to do. If Jorah was the betrayal for love it was actually against Robert and the Iron Throne, not Dany. But, more likely, those two betrayals are still to come.

Braavosi? You mean, people from Braavos, where slavery is outlawed, half way around the world in the slavery capital of GRRth just to "willingly" take part in this blood sport? I'm not all that convinced. The variety of people who fight in the Pit suggests to me that at the very least, some are not there willingly and are likely slaves. It is a long way to come from the Summer Isles just to die.

Whoa. See, this is why I love this re-read so much. I have read this chapter numerous times and it's never hit me that a Braavosi being there is really odd.

We know that usually, Hizdhar has "placid eyes" and this hides the true nature of Hizdhar beneath (i.e. a Harpy/Harpy's Son)

That quote about Hizzy is so...icky. He's not part of any new wave; he doesn't care about change and peace. He's all for the blood spilling.

Barristan, I love you, but F*** you right now.

He is again trying to shelter Dany from brutal realities (as with Robert;s Rebellion and her father - he will dither and delay as much as he can so he doesn't have to tell her the harsh truth)

Her knights have a habit of doing this. Jorah says almost the same thing the night Viserys dies: "look away, my Princess, I beg you." But then both Jorah and Barry realize that Dany is not some young girl in need of protecting.

Those are very good points SeanF :)

yes I think you are right, there is no way Drogon is leaving her in the lurch when the Dothraki appear. He is hers now, all the way. I agree he was pissed at her, when he first lands in the pit and she tries to help him he is not very responsive to her, he felt neglected, lonely, angry, missing the piece that makes him whole. It's funny to think of a Dragon being angry at a person, but I would have to agree completely. The last time she saw him it was when she was trying to chain him up, what did she say about it? that they tried 2 or 3 times to catch him and that several people were burned during the process, I doubt that was a pretty afternoon. And it was the last time Dany saw him, after being chased he felt like he could not even be around her anymore, lost faith and trust in her. LOL and only her beating him whit a whip to show her love brought him back around. #dragonlove

He's a child whose mom sent him to bed without supper but now mommy and baby need to make up! :lmao:

More seriously, I used to think there was a possibility that Drogon might go to Jon eventually but as I re-read I can't imagine anyone ever riding Drogon besides Dany. This is more than just dragonrider/dragon bond. This is mother and son.

And ya know, I think we have to give Drogona pass for eating Barsena.....He was coming for the boar seems like, there was a dead gutted body lying right there too, so it makes sense he would eat both of them. If he had killed the human to eat it that would be different, but as is, it was more a juxtaposition issue than a 'he eats people' issue.

I have no problem with Drogon eating Barsena. What about Grey Wind ripping out men's throats or Robb sicking Grey Wind on Greatjon Umber and ripping off two of his fingers? How about Nymeria roaming the Riverlands? We applaud those moments.