Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-read Project Part V: ADWD

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, my theory is that there will be nothing left of Meereen after the battle. If ADwD was supposed to end with the battle of fire, then the battle was supposed to give that storyline some sort of conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if it's called the "battle of fire" for a reason: it ends with fire. Moreover, I would imagine that Dany's final chapter was always intended to take place at the end of the book.

I don't want to jump too far ahead so it may be best to leave this discussion till after her final chapter... But if the timeline is accurate, and if Dany truly needs to go to Vaes Dothrak, everyone in Meereen will be waiting a long time before she returns...

It's also worth noting that all her Dothraki are sent into the Dothraki Sea by Barristan.

Why do you think she will take so long in VD? she can fly back to Meereen in one day when she is done there. I think the flight from the Pit to Dragonstone took several hours, and it is half the distance to VD, so I imagine she could get back to Meereen as quickly as she wants right?

[SeanF]

If Dany wins over a substantial proportion of the Dothraki, then it becomes feasible for large numbers of her people to march and ride West, without having to use the Demon Road.

My guess is they'll attack Volantis, by land and sea, and then take Pentos.

[PatrickStormborn]

Why do you think she will take so long in VD? she can fly back to Meereen in one day when she is done there. I think the flight from the Pit to Dragonstone took several hours, and it is half the distance to VD, so I imagine she could get back to Meereen as quickly as she wants right?

She will need to wait for all the Dothraki to be summoned from across Essos if she's the stallion who mounts the world. With her vision of the crones bowing to her, reuniting with Jhaqo, the Lands of Ice and Fire maps showing she is facing towards Vaes Dothrak, and finally her khalasar being sent into the Dothrai Sea, I just can't see any other possibility at this point.

My theory is that everyone will have abandoned Meereen before her final chapter even started, and she will learn of this when she's with the Dothraki. GRRM saying that Tyrion and Dany will spend "much of the book apart" before they "intersect" implies the same, IMO.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I really hope Dany returns to Meereen and travels west with her army and dragons. But it's all just a bit too convenient if that's what happens, and I don't think GRRM will take the story that way.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

She will need to wait for all the Dothraki to be summoned from across Essos if she's the stallion who mounts the world. With her vision of the crones bowing to her, reuniting with Jhaqo, the Lands of Ice and Fire maps showing she is facing towards Vaes Dothrak, and finally her khalasar being sent into the Dothrai Sea, I just can't see any other possibility at this point.

My theory is that everyone will have abandoned Meereen before her final chapter even started, and she will learn of this when she's with the Dothraki. GRRM saying that Tyrion and Dany will spend "much of the book apart" before they "intersect" implies the same, IMO.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I really hope Dany returns to Meereen and travels west with her army and dragons. But it's all just a bit too convenient if that's what happens, and I don't think GRRM will take the story that way.

Ohhhh ok, Yeah I had forgotten that she will have to wait to summon people to VD. maybe we will get lucky and they will already be having a gathering there :)

[MoIaF]

She will need to wait for all the Dothraki to be summoned from across Essos if she's the stallion who mounts the world. With her vision of the crones bowing to her, reuniting with Jhaqo, the Lands of Ice and Fire maps showing she is facing towards Vaes Dothrak, and finally her khalasar being sent into the Dothrai Sea, I just can't see any other possibility at this point.

My theory is that everyone will have abandoned Meereen before her final chapter even started, and she will learn of this when she's with the Dothraki. GRRM saying that Tyrion and Dany will spend "much of the book apart" before they "intersect" implies the same, IMO.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I really hope Dany returns to Meereen and travels west with her army and dragons. But it's all just a bit too convenient if that's what happens, and I don't think GRRM will take the story that way.

Well, Tyrion and Dany don't have to spend much time together if she returns to Meereen. I imagine that one of them will go with her fleet through sea (Tyrion most likely) and the other will march her tropes through the road (Dany, because, dragons).

They'll spend perhaps a chapter meeting, formulating a plan and then separating in order to get to Volantis towards the end of the book. At the end of the book they'll all be heading to Westeros.

[MoIaF]

Ohhhh ok, Yeah I had forgotten that she will have to wait to summon people to VD. maybe we will get lucky and they will already be having a gathering there :)

Well, Khal Pono is near Volantis so I don't know if he'll be headed to Vaes Dothrak. I can't imagine that all the khalasar's will be there. There are just too many and too spread out. What I imagine is that she will get named TSTMTW and then send outriders to find all the different khalasars and have them meet her in Volantis.

[BearQueen87]

Hmm, no I don't think there will be a government not in Slaver's Bay at least. I really think Meereen is burning to the ground. She'll be moving her people out of there, but that's just a hunch.

What about the other two cities though? Do they all bend the knee and say, "Yes, Queen Daenerys, we shall abide by your laws even though you're leaving?" And if she does burn everything to the ground, does she let the people who want to remain there rebuild? What happens if they want to rebuild with slavery?

I just don't know how GRRM gets her out of Slaver's Bay without either burning everything to the ground, Dany giving up on trying to end slavery (not likely), or some sort of "miracle."

Well, Tyrion and Dany don't have to spend much time together if she returns to Meereen. I imagine that one of them will go with her fleet through sea (Tyrion most likely) and the other will march her tropes through the road (Dany, because, dragons).

They'll spend perhaps a chapter meeting, formulating a plan and then separating in order to get to Volantis towards the end of the book. At the end of the book they'll all be heading to Westeros.

That's how I interpret the "much of the time apart" as well; a division of forces. Tyrion, who might be named Hand, takes the sea with the fleet from Vic and the fleet from Volantis. Most of the Unsullied can go by ship? Then Dany, Jorah, and the Dothraki take the Demon Road (cause you know we gotta see that thing after it has been mentioned so many times). Dany can fly Drogon to the fleet if she needs a word with Tyrion.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, Khal Pono is near Volantis so I don't know if he'll be headed to Vaes Dothrak. I can't imagine that all the khalasar's will be there. There are just too many and too spread out. What I imagine is that she will get named TSTMTW and then send outriders to find all the different khalasars and have them meet her in Volantis.

The crones all live at VD right? those are the main people she will need to talk to there, maybe they will have to wait for some khalasars, but probably not all of them.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

1) Dany is 8 to 9 months younger than Jon.

2) Dany's mother, Rhaella, left KL two weeks before the Sack. There is a way to track this by tracking who the Hand is at the time. Rhaella and Viserys (and a newly conceived Dany) fled after the Trident. We know Rhaella was freshly pregnant because the marks from Aerys' savagery were still fresh on her, meaning that he had just raped Rhaella again (probably after burning his last Hand, Chestland I believe). That is when Dany is conceived.

if you have more questions, visit RLJ. We're masters at time lining these little things.

Thanks for the response i somehow have overlooked the fresh bruises i just got the 9 - 10 month time span from George RR Martin fo i thought maybe just maybe he was saying those 2 numbers because they are the pregnancy numbers and it might be some hidden egg

[MoIaF]

What about the other two cities though? Do they all bend the knee and say, "Yes, Queen Daenerys, we shall abide by your laws even though you're leaving?" And if she does burn everything to the ground, does she let the people who want to remain there rebuild? What happens if they want to rebuild with slavery?

I just don't know how GRRM gets her out of Slaver's Bay without either burning everything to the ground, Dany giving up on trying to end slavery (not likely), or some sort of "miracle."

Honestly, I don't know how GRRM will resolve that part of the conflict. Although my gut feeling tells me there will be fire. If you look at it's current condition there isn't anything there. Astapor is gone, Meereen's resources were destroyed by the Master and I don't know about Yunkai, I just can't imagine who Dany would leave in charge of the situation there. Also, to make matters worse there is still the little problem of the pale mare.

That's how I interpret the "much of the time apart" as well; a division of forces. Tyrion, who might be named Hand, takes the sea with the fleet from Vic and the fleet from Volantis. Most of the Unsullied can go by ship? Then Dany, Jorah, and the Dothraki take the Demon Road (cause you know we gotta see that thing after it has been mentioned so many times). Dany can fly Drogon to the fleet if she needs a word with Tyrion.

That would be so awesome, but basically it's an easy way to resolve the need for communication. Although I doubt they'll intersect much after they separate, In order to expedite the whole thing I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of flashbacks.

Does anyone understand the Ice and Fire map? How tong would it take to march all those people through the Deamon Road from Slaver's Bay to Volantis?

The crones all live at VD right? those are the main people she will need to talk to there, maybe they will have to wait for some khalasars, but probably not all of them.

Yes, they all live there. I also imagine that there are at least a few khalasars there. I got the impression that there are always khalasars at Vaes Dothrak at any given time. Dany's little khalasar must have left week before, they should be arriving in Vaes Dothrak soon.

Also, every time you type VD it makes me think of Venereal Diseases... :D

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Also, every time you type VD it makes me think of Venereal Diseases... :D

I know LOL.

[BearQueen87]

Honestly, I don't know how GRRM will resolve that part of the conflict. Although my gut feeling tells me there will be fire. If you look at it's current condition there isn't anything there. Astapor is gone, Meereen's resources were destroyed by the Master and I don't know about Yunkai, I just can't imagine who Dany would leave in charge of the situation there. Also, to make matters worse there is still the little problem of the pale mare.

Oh there will be fire, I agree. And we've talked a lot about birth from destruction and how fire symbolizes both so I'm okay with her burning SB to the ground, I just hope it doesn't descend into wanton unnecessary violence. Maybe Dany gives everyone a choice: either come with me and live under my rules (no slavery, ect) OR you stay here and I burn you all with dragon fire and destroy your cities and put a stop to slavery once and for all.

Does anyone understand the Ice and Fire map? How tong would it take to march all those people through the Deamon Road from Slaver's Bay to Volantis?

Not a clue. But, if all the freed people of Slaver's Bay and any ex-slaver's who choose to follow her are going with Dany, it's going to take awhile. Dany and her knights can go on horseback but it's still the same situation Jorah tried to tell her about in ASOS before she took Meereen: "if they come with us, they need to fend for themselves."

[PatrickStormborn]

Well, Tyrion and Dany don't have to spend much time together if she returns to Meereen. I imagine that one of them will go with her fleet through sea (Tyrion most likely) and the other will march her tropes through the road (Dany, because, dragons).

They'll spend perhaps a chapter meeting, formulating a plan and then separating in order to get to Volantis towards the end of the book. At the end of the book they'll all be heading to Westeros.

I think the wording of GRRM's response makes it sound like Tyrion and Dany will only intersect after spending "much of the book" apart.

Well, Khal Pono is near Volantis so I don't know if he'll be headed to Vaes Dothrak. I can't imagine that all the khalasar's will be there. There are just too many and too spread out. What I imagine is that she will get named TSTMTW and then send outriders to find all the different khalasars and have them meet her in Volantis.

There has been foreshadowing that all the Dothraki will be in Vaes Dothrak at one time, though. That's why it stuck out to me when Barristan sends the Dothraki away from Meereen.

This map is very helpful. On the character journeys map, Dany is facing Vaes Dothrak somewhere between it and Meereen.

The distance from Yunkai to Meereen is 163 miles. According to the fan-made timeline I previously posted, Dany is outside Meereen around two weeks later. Obviously it isn't official by any means, but I doubt the journey would have taken much longer, even with the "mouths with feet" following them. I'd argue that the journey from Meereen to Volantis by land would take around two months - taking into account that they would need to pass Mantarys.

[MoIaF]

Oh there will be fire, I agree. And we've talked a lot about birth from destruction and how fire symbolizes both so I'm okay with her burning SB to the ground, I just hope it doesn't descend into wanton unnecessary violence. Maybe Dany gives everyone a choice: either come with me and live under my rules (no slavery, ect) OR you stay here and I burn you all with dragon fire and destroy your cities and put a stop to slavery once and for all.

I think that now that Dany has control of Drogon she'll be able to control part of that but not sure she'll be able to control all of it. However, I agree it'll be like "come with me to have a better chance at a safe life or stay behind and die" type of deal.

I think the wording of GRRM's response makes it sound like Tyrion and Dany will only intersect after spending "much of the book" apart.

This is what GRRM said:

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

I read this and to me it seems that they'll meet (intersect) and then be apart for much of the book, which makes sense with the travel time from Meereen to Volantis is substancial. However, I'm aware that I might be completely misinterpreting this.

There has been foreshadowing that all the Dothraki will be in Vaes Dothrak at one time, though. That's why it stuck out to me when Barristan sends the Dothraki away from Meereen.

Having Dany's khalasar with her when the crones make the pronouncement is important, so I agree with you that it's significant that they are on their way to her. However, unless the khalasar had been called to Vaes Dothrak in advance of Dany even showing up there, I can't imagine that they would all get there in less than a year's time from her arrival. There are probably khalasars as far East as the Shadow Lands and further. These are nomads who travel all around.

If there are going to be a significant number of khalasars at Vaes Dothrak they are either there or on their way. IMHO

This map is very helpful. On the character journeys map, Dany is facing Vaes Dothrak somewhere between it and Meereen.

The distance from Yunkai to Meereen is 163 miles. According to the fan-made timeline I previously posted, Dany is outside Meereen around two weeks later. Obviously it isn't official by any means, but I doubt the journey would have taken much longer, even with the "mouths with feet" following them. I'd argue that the journey from Meereen to Volantis by land would take around two months - taking into account that they would need to pass Mantarys.

Great, thank you for the information.

ETA: Intersect to me scream crossroads...

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

The Dragontamer: Quentyn IV

I must not be afraid. She did it, so can I.

Summary

The chapter begins in the middle of the night, where we meet Quentyn waiting for the time of his plan to steal a dragon, to begin. He is having trouble sleeping due to him being afraid of the whole plan. When the time comes, he meets up with Pretty Merris and the others who are also part of the plan, and they begin the attempt to capture/tame one of the dragons via Quentyn. The plan already starts in a disaster when the guards guarding the dragon pit reject the password Quentyn had obtained earlier and Quentyn and his crew are forced to kill them in order to get into the pit. Within the pit Quentyn begins his attempt by feeding Rhaegal with a sheep to make him sluggish, Viserion though is perched in his cave at the ceiling of the pit. With the door open Viserion attempts to go out and foolishly (as described by Quentyn) part of his crew attack Viserion which causes Viserion to attack the offender in response and also end up eating him. Quentyn then attempts to tame Viserion but fails as Rhaegal roasts him, bringing Quentyn’s journey to Meereen a tragic end.

Observations

· Quentyn shows signs of fear throughout the chapter

· He bases his method of taming off what he saw from Daenerys

· And he also bases many of his assumptions on how to tame dragons off other creatures such as snakes and horses

Analysis

Quentyn’s fear

So we learned from the last Daenerys chapter, that conquering your fears is an essential part in taming dragons, regardless of your blood or if you are already bonded with a dragon without bravery you will end up being roasted. However, within this chapter Quentyn approached the dragons with fear and doubt beginning right from the start of the chapter, and it bleeds throughout.

None of this seemed quite real. One moment it felt like a game, the next like some nightmare, like a bad dream where he found himself opening a dark door, knowing that horror and death waited on the other side, yet somehow powerless to stop himself. His palms were slick with sweat.

There was a cramp in Quentyn’s belly. He felt a sudden need to move his bowels, but knew he dare not beg off now.

Quentyn stared transfixed, his belly roiling. His own blade was still in its sheath. He had not so much as reached for it.

The dragons, Prince Quentyn thought. Yes. We came for the dragons. He felt as though he might be sick. What am I doing here? Father, why? Four men dead in as many heartbeats, and for what?

Warrior, grant me courage, he prayed. He did not want to do this, but he saw no other way. Why else would Daenerys have shown me the dragons? She wants me to prove myself to her.

Before even attempting to approach the dragons, all these quotes show Quentyn’s fear, and it doesn’t look convincing for someone that wants to tame a dragon.

He also stumbles when calling out Rhaegal.

“Rhaegal,” he said. His voice caught in his throat, and what came out was a broken croak. Frog, he thought, I am turning into Frog again.

And with Viserion he wasn’t sure of the name which also shows his fear, and he was also described as fumbling for the whip.

“Viserion,” he called. The white one is Viserion. For half a heartbeat he was afraid he’d gotten it wrong. “Viserion,” he called again, fumbling for the whip hanging from his belt.

Quentyn later starts to show a bit of bravery towards Viserion, but is unfortunately roasted by Rhaegar, this may have to do with him showing fear to Rhaegal earlier.

“Down,” the prince commanded. You must not let him smell your fear. “Down, down, down.” He brought the whip around and laid a lash across the dragon’s face. Viserion hissed.

Dragon behavioural analysis

In this chapter we get a closer look on the behavior of dragons.

A dragons first instinct is to attack

This evidenced from the man who attempted to kill Viserion and also from the last chapter when another man tried to kill Drogon. Both dragons responded by attacking rather than flying away. From this chapter:

“No,” he screamed, “no, don’t, don’t,” but it was too late. The fool was all that he had time to think as the quarrel caromed off Viserion’s neck to vanish in the gloom. A line of fire gleamed in its wake—dragon’s blood, glowing gold and red. The crossbowman was fumbling for another quarrel as the dragon’s teeth closed around his neck. The man wore the mask of a Brazen Beast, the fearsome likeness of a tiger. As he dropped his weapon to try and pry apart Viserion’s jaws, flame gouted from the tiger’s mouth. The man’s eyes burst with soft popping sounds, and the brass around them began to run. The dragon tore off a hunk of flesh, most of the sellsword’s neck, then gulped it down as the burning corpse collapsed to the floor.

Viserion didn’t attack anyone else except the crossbowman that attacked him, so a dragon will always attack first when attacked rather than flying away.

Also Rhaegal’s unexpected burning of Viserion may have to do with Quentyn whipping Rhaegal. From APATQ we saw that even dragons can have relationships with themselves and not just with humans. Viserion and Rhaegal have been together since birth so I would assume they see themselves as brothers and would retaliate if someone attacked the other. In Dany’s last chapter she described the whip as annoying Drogon rather than hurting him, so it would make sense if Rhaegal attacks the person annoying his brother and again this is another example of a dragon using attack as it’s first instinct.

An ember within

We also see how fire is made from dragons. From this chapter we see down Rhaegal and Viserion’s throat and learn that the fire is made in the body before being shot out.

Behind a fence of sharp black teeth he glimpsed the furnace glow, the shimmer of a sleeping fire a hundred times brighter than his torch. The dragon’s head was larger than a horse’s, and the neck stretched on and on, uncoiling like some great green serpent as the head rose, until those two glowing bronze eyes were staring down at him.

And it also seems that the flames of all dragons have a bit of the colour of their scales. We know Drogon has black flames and from this chapter it seems Rhaegal’s flames have a touch of green.

His head snapped round, and from between his jaws a lance of flame erupted, a swirling storm of orange-and-yellow fire shot through with veins of green.

Facial and Scent recognition

In addition to the above, this chapter also shows one way dragons identify people, by smell and by physical features.

Last and longest the beast stared at Pretty Meris, sniffing. The woman, Quentyn realized. He knows that she is female. He is looking for Daenerys. He wants his mother and does not understand why she’s not here.

That might explain why the Valyrians have a distinct look and practiced incest (in addition to something being in their blood) inbreeding would increase the chances of a look being the same over generations.

Dragons are dragons

In the next Dany chapter, we will see her compare dragons to horses and explain how different they are. In this chapter however Quentyn makes the mistake of comparing them to snakes and horse, that could explain why he totally forgot about Rhaegal.

“More meat,” Quentyn said. Once the beasts were fed they will become sluggish. He had seen it work with snakes in Dorne, but here, with these monsters … “Bring … bring …”

“From dragonback?” “I have been riding horses since I was six years old.” “And you’ve been thrown a time or three.” “That never stopped me from getting back into the saddle.” “You’ve never been thrown off a thousand feet above the ground,” Gerris pointed out. “And horses seldom turn their riders into charred bones and ashes.”

This is also a message to readers also, that when analyzing dragons comparing them to other animals won’t be particularly useful.

Dany’s inner dragon breaks through

Dany’s inner dragon has been chained throughout the whole of ADWD and this is metaphorically shown by her literally chained dragons. In this chapter we see that their chains are broken and I suppose that would apply to Dany aswell.

A thick iron collar was visible about his neck, with three feet of broken chain dangling from it. Shattered links were strewn across the floor of the pit amongst the blackened bones—twists of metal, partly melted.

A loss of innocence

I constant theme in ASOIAF is how children of nobles lost their innocence during the medieval times. This has been shown through Sansa, Arya and Dany already but in this chapter GRRM also shows that the boys were no different.

Quentyn did not want to die at all. I want to go back to Yronwood and kiss both of your sisters, marry Gwyneth Yronwood, watch her flower into beauty, have a child by her. I want to ride in tourneys, hawk and hunt, visit with my mother in Norvos, read some of those books my father sends me. I want Cletus and Will and Maester Kedry to be alive again.

I should have kissed one of the Drinkwater twins, or maybe both of them. I should have kissed them whilst I could. I should have gone to Norvos to see my mother and the place that gave her birth, so she would know that I had not forgotten her.

What went wrong?

So at the end of the day I sit back and think to myself on what went wrong with Quentyn when taming the dragons, and I think it has to do with the following.

· He tried taming a dragon in the presence of two

· He showed a lot of fear throughout

· He tried to apply the methods of taming other animals to dragons

· And he tried to tame fire breathing dragons that haven’t been seen in 300 years without any experience

Conclusion

This was a tragic chapter as it brings Quentyn’s unfortunate journey to an end and ti also leaves readers wondering what Dorne’s next plan will be.

[BearQueen87]

This is what GRRM said:

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

I read this and to me it seems that they'll meet (intersect) and then be apart for much of the book, which makes sense with the travel time from Meereen to Volantis is substancial. However, I'm aware that I might be completely misinterpreting this.

The "in a way" part of the intersection of Tyrion and Dany is interesting. I agree that it means they'll meet but only briefly. Something almost has to call Dany back to Meereen. Her Dothraki that are looking for her might persuade her to come back, but I've been wondering if someone else might go looking for Dany to inform her of what's going on in Meereen (the battle for one thing). And when they find her they not only tell Dany of the battle for Meereen, but also that Tyrion Lannister is holding her city for her.

Also, yay new chapter! More on that later today :)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Oh, honey...

this whole chapter can be summarised in one single gif.

Nevertheless, yes, Quentyn is quite a tragic character here, and it's sad that it will turn out wrong for Dany, even though Dany never wished him wrong. I'm very against the Quentyn hate: neither him nor his arc is boring, tbh.

He's one of the reasons the books is called "Dance with Dragons", which is a big motif in this book, and not only because of the beasts, also the people.

Tyrion tried to dance with a Dragon, and he got himself strangled and slaved when such Dragon decided to do his will. And Aegon is becoming more independent every day.

Who knows what's going to happen to the NW after Jon wakes up (he's going to, obviously). Bowen and his people are going to find out exactly what happens when they wake the dragon.

...aaaaand Dany. Dany is tamed because she has forgot what she really is. A Dragon. Dragons aren't slaves. Dragons plant no trees. That doesn't mean she's going to go all "FIRAH AND BLAAAAHD, BITCHES!" all over Westeros like many imply and assume: it means like Dragons doesn't like to be chained nor like to take orders from anybody that they don't accept as "father/mother". And just as Quentyn, as soon as Dany returns, she's going to roast all of those who have tried to tame her.

Anyway, yes. The Dragons Remember (!).

WOW SPOILER

I can't remember right now, but they are involved in the battle already. Tyrion sees them from beyond. I wonder if they are only attacking enemies. That would be amazing

[SeanF]

I fear that Quentyn's sister will be one of the roasted, Jon Con.

Lovely analysis, Queen Alysane. I'm afraid I found this chapter blackly funny.

[BearQueen87]

The Dragontamer: Quentyn IV

I must not be afraid. She did it, so can I.

Really nice job Queen Alysanne! Also, such a darkly funny title for a POV....

*sigh* Poor Quentyn.

Note that the chapter opens with the telling of the hours, much like Quentyn's last chapter: "The hour of the bat gave way to the hour of the eel, the hour of the eel to the hour of ghosts."

The hour of ghosts is now upon them and soon there will be a few more ghosts.

Quentyn’s fear

So we learned from the last Daenerys chapter, that conquering your fears is an essential part in taming dragons, regardless of your blood or if you are already bonded with a dragon without bravery you will end up being roasted. However, within this chapter Quentyn approached the dragons with fear and doubt beginning right from the start of the chapter, and it bleeds throughout.

This was a great part of your analysis that I really enjoyed. Even before Quentyn and his men move out, the fear is there: staring at his ceiling, dreaming without sleeping, remembering, imagining, twisting beneath his linen coverlet, his mind feverish with thoughts of fire and blood.

Quentyn tries to touch a flame on a candle and "snatched his hand back with a cry of pain." This really needs to be a giant red arrow to Quentyn that his plan to tame a dragon is NOT going to go well.

Quentyn later starts to show a bit of bravery towards Viserion, but is unfortunately roasted by Rhaegar, this may have to do with him showing fear to Rhaegal earlier.

“Down,” the prince commanded. You must not let him smell your fear. “Down, down, down.” He brought the whip around and laid a lash across the dragon’s face. Viserion hissed.

Too little, too late. The dragon has already decided that Quentyn is crunchy and will taste well with ketchup.

A dragons first instinct is to attack

This evidenced from the man who attempted to kill Viserion and also from the last chapter when another man tried to kill Drogon. Both dragons responded by attacking rather than flying away. From this chapter:

This portion of the chapter is also a reminder of how chained Dany herself has been. The first instinct should be to attack and wipe out those that are opposing you, but Dany kept trying to placate and sue for peace by chaining herself further. She's not going to make that mistake again. If her enemies won't get in line, Dany knows what she must do.

Last and longest the beast stared at Pretty Meris, sniffing. The woman, Quentyn realized. He knows that she is female. He is looking for Daenerys. He wants his mother and does not understand why she’s not here.

What an unbelievably sad few sentences. But kudos to Quentyn for realizing just how powerful the connection is between dragons and Dany. They want their mother, even after they've been chained up for this long, they still wish Dany would come to them. I think that speaks volumes about her bond with all three. Dany may only ever ride Drogon and Viserion and Rhaegal might get other riders, but no matter what, all three are going to be her children forever.

A loss of innocence

I constant theme in ASOIAF is how children of nobles lost their innocence during the medieval times. This has been shown through Sansa, Arya and Dany already but in this chapter GRRM also shows that the boys were no different.

This is where I agree with JonCon. People call Quentyn boring but his POV and arc are important to this theme but also to the theme of home and family. Quentyn doesn't want any of this, he just wants a quiet life of peace. Ironic that Dany wants the same thing, but they don't want it with each other. But for Dorne and for his father, Quentyn undertook this journey because that's what sons and princes do.

Some misc. notes

1) There is a discussion in the beginning between Quentyn and Gerris concerning marriage and that it has nothing to do with love. Dany has been married twice, neither marriage entered into with love on her mind. She came to love Drogo but she'll never love Hizzy. Throughout ASOIAF we see that marriages are kind of negative. Cersei and Robert, Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully, Doran Martell and his wife, Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark, Robb Stark and Jeyne Westerling, are all troubling or end badly for various reasons. One of the good marriages in Westeros, Ned Stark and Cat Tully, wasn't even supposed to be. I believe most of us agree that Dany will marry at least one more time, three being such an important number to her. It would be nice--although perhaps naive--to think that this time she'll get to marry for love. She was sold, she sold herself, I'd like the third and final time to be her giving herself, freely.

2) Quentyn's final thought, "oh," is equally sad as his death. He doesn't even get a proper goodbye speech or heroic thought.

...aaaaand Dany. Dany is tamed because she has forgot what she really is. A Dragon. Dragons aren't slaves. Dragons plant no trees. That doesn't mean she's going to go all "FIRAH AND BLAAAAHD, BITCHES!" all over Westeros like many imply and assume: it means like Dragons doesn't like to be chained nor like to take orders from anybody that they don't accept as "father/mother". And just as Quentyn, as soon as Dany returns, she's going to roast all of those who have tried to tame her.

Yes there seems to be a general opinion that Dany remembering her house words somehow equal nothing but blood and chaos and fire. But that's not true. I think it means a return to center, to being the Mother (nurturing, life giving) of Dragons (destruction, death). We'll talk more about this when we get to her final POV, but I believe her remembering her house words is about her becoming a more fully realized person who doesn't exist in extremes anymore, but can move seamlessly between both different aspects.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The Dragontamer: Quentyn IV

I must not be afraid. She did it, so can I.

Excellent Analysis :) A very good chapter here. Really love it. Again, shout out to poor doomed Quentyn...he did try, gods know he had good intentions. And even though he wasn't internally brave enough to get it right once he got in the cave, he was brave enough to make the plan and get down there, which is more than anyone else has done. He was trying as hard as he could to win Dany, to become a legend, to make Dorne proud, he just fell short in all categories.

Also, If you ask me, he should have just freed the dragons, why in the world was he even trying to ride one? first thing first, get them out of this cave where they are hungry, clearly pissed off and feel backed into a corner. I think Dany would be very appreciative to a man who put his life in danger to free her locked up dragons.