R+L=J v.97

[WarLord]

The only thing I hate about this theory if R+L =J is that it will glorify a dynasty of incestuous bastards - The Targareyns.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Tourney at Harrenhal was held in the year of the false spring. (The date of Mya Stone’s birth can be just a month or two before the tourney, in the previous year, also during winter. It would be so unlikely for any word of that birth to reach Lyanna at Winterfell prior to her attending the tourney; no matter the exact date; that I just rule it out.) False spring is preceded by, and followed by winter. Travel times make it more than possible for Ned to only go to Harrenhal directly from the Eyrie, after the winter; and travel to Winterfell from Harrenhal before the winter.

Mya was born in either 279AC or 280AC.. So like I said, 1 or 2 years before the tourney. Definitly not the year of the tourney :) But the exact year, we don't know (yet).

Word of Mya's birth doesn't have to reach Lyanna at Winterfell. We know that Rickard had southron ambitions, and that he had been actively seeking allegiances with southron houses (with as example, the match between Catelyn and Brandon). Making friends with the new Lord of Storm's End might have been another one of his "ideas". Allow me to lay out a speculated scenario:

Steffon and Casanna Baratheon die. Robert Baratheon, in 278/279AC, becomes the new lord of Storm's End. After a year, Robert holds the first tourney in Steffon's memory. That would be either in 279AC or 280AC (we don't know exactly when Steffon died, do we?). In both case, it is possible for Mya to already have been born.

In order for Rickard to make friends with Robert (which he could think should go easily, since Robert and Ned already are friends), either he visits the tourney, or he sends his children. Lyanna could have gone to Storm's End for such a tourney. It is nowhere stated (that I can recall) that Harrenhal was Lyanna's first tourney.

It also doesn't have to have been the tourney given the first year after Steffons death. With Robert's love for tourneys, it seems most likely to me that he gave a tourney each year (as a matter of fact, the only tourney in Steffon's memory that we know of occured in 281AC). That would give Lyanna a couple of occasions to visit Storm's End, and thus meet Robert. She would get to know his personality, and he would get to see her.

Why do you neglect that Brandon left for his “mission” from Riverrun? When the Brandon and Catelyn betrothal and wedding date are formally announced in Riverrun, Petyr challenges. Brandon travels to Riverrun after the winter, to answer the challenge. Brandon severely wounds Petyr, and then promises Catelyn that he will return shortly from an errand, in plenty of time for the wedding. Petyr spends a fortnight in Riverrun before Hoster forces him to be carried away in a litter. (Brandon is out of Riverrun for more than a fortnight.)

I don't neglect, but perhaps I did not explain my thoughts clear enough :)

Whatever his "mission" was, Brandon would eventually return north (for how long, we don't know; perhaps it was only to go get Rickard and the 200-men wedding party). We also don't know how long after Harrenhal the winter kicked in again, or how long the winter lasted (and whether actual spring had begun again by the time Brandon rode to Riverrun for his wedding).

Isn’t it likely that Brandon and Ned both left Winterfell, together? Brandon for Riverrun, and Ned for the Vale. That would be as winter is lifted, and easy travel was once again possible. That would make the time that winter returned in 281-282 about 9-12 months, which seems very reasonable. Note too that the red comet heralds the beginning of winter. That comet was sighted over King’s Landing the night that Rhaegar and Elia conceived Aegon. The subtle hints fit together too neatly to be otherwise. ;)

Since when does a Red Comet herald the coming of winter? Is there a quote about that, because in such a case, I missed that..

[BearQueen87]

The only thing I hate about this theory if R+L =J is that it will glorify a dynasty of incestuous bastards - The Targareyns.

Because knowing that Jon is half Targaryen erases all the crazy things the Targs have done in the past? I don't think so. Also, not all the Targs were incestuous.

[Ygrain]

Whatever his "mission" was, Brandon would eventually return north (for how long, we don't know; perhaps it was only to go get Rickard and the 200-men wedding party). We also don't know how long after Harrenhal the winter kicked in again, or how long the winter lasted (and whether actual spring had begun again by the time Brandon rode to Riverrun for his wedding).

IIRC, Catelyn recalls that Brandon promised to return soon as it was only a couple of days before their wedding, so the wedding party must have been pretty close to Riverrun (and the question is why Brandon bothered to travel to meet them and if this wasn't just a pretext for something else)

[WarLord]

Because knowing that Jon is half Targaryen erases all the crazy things the Targs have done in the past? I don't think so. Also, not all the Targs were incestuous.

True.But if it is shown that Jon Snow is AA OR THE Promised Prince then ASOIAF won't be much different from other fantasy stories that a lone hero saves the world(whether Daenerys joins him or not will be immaterial).

[Jon Weirgaryen]

True.But if it is shown that Jon Snow is AA OR THE Promised Prince then ASOIAF won't be much different from other fantasy stories that a lone hero saves the world(whether Daenerys joins him or not will be immaterial).

Rest assured that no lone hero will ever save the world, not even Dany will ... except of course in the old stories where that is the matter - well, even the Last Hero brought his dog, didn't he?

[BearQueen87]

IIRC, Catelyn recalls that Brandon promised to return soon as it was only a couple of days before their wedding, so the wedding party must have been pretty close to Riverrun (and the question is why Brandon bothered to travel to meet them and if this wasn't just a pretext for something else)

Do we know of any woman in the wedding party with whom Brandon could have been having relations? If he wanted one last *ahem* meeting before getting hitched, for example?

True.But if it is shown that Jon Snow is AA OR THE Promised Prince then ASOIAF won't be much different from other fantasy stories that a lone hero saves the world(whether Daenerys joins him or not will be immaterial).

Well I sincerely doubt that Jon will be alone. It's going to be a combo of all our characters--in whatever way they can. Jon may be the one to take out the source of the Other's magic (or whatnot) but it doesn't mean he's working alone. It's not immaterial if Dany or any other figure joins him because in joining him, the whole "lone single hero" trope is automatically done away with.

[Mithras]

Was Frodo the only hero that single handedly saved the Middle Earth?

He had a companion (or two) and there were other heroes that hang on long enough for him to carry the ring to the fire. They kept the enemy occupied at other fronts to clear the way for the ringbearer.

I think it looks like a bad cliche if all the remaning heroes in ASOIAF unite against the common threat. The good way to subvert the cliche is to make a handful of heroes deal with the common threat while other heroes do not pay attention to them and even make things harder for them.

[Ygrain]

Do we know of any woman in the wedding party with whom Brandon could have been having relations? If he wanted one last *ahem* meeting before getting hitched, for example?

You think that Barbrey might have attended the wedding? :P

Or that he would have gone to KL to enquire about Ashara? - Which, of course, wouldn't be generally known and people (read: Catelyn) would assume that he went there because of Rhaegar. However, if he originally went to KL because of Ashara and learned of Rhaegar and Lyanna only while he was there, or just before KL, it would explain why he acted so rashly, when he supposedly would have had days of travel to calm down and think the whole matter through (and hopefully, his friends would have tried to talk him out of it) if he travelled from somewhere further off.