Tormund GiantsMANE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Dany is a worse ruler than Tywin. Are we comparing a 60 yr old family patriarch/ex hand of the king/lord of casterly rock to a 15 yr old girl? you got it player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Are we comparing a 60 yr old family patriarch/ex hand of the king/lord of casterly rock to a 15 yr old girl? you got it player.Yo her subordinates are for sure happy because the crimes she commited were done because of her young age.Joffry wasn't that bad than, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Stop! You're making too much sense! Very good argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yo her subordinates are for sure happy because the crimes she commited were done because of her young age.Joffry wasn't that bad than, too. Did you just compare to Joffrey to Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Did you just compare to Joffrey to Dany?You sure as hell want to start an argument :). It is quite obvious that John Doe was being sarcastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I guess ol' Tywin didn't count for the red viper I suppose Tywin assumed Doran could keep him under control. Oberyn by his own has not much power, as he's the younger brother. He can't actually raise banners nor call men if Doran doesnt' approve it. And Doran's attitude, for what it looks like, actually fooled Tywin, or at least, keep him satisfied for the meantime. Either way, he didn't consider Dorne being dangerous during all those years, and if he did, he never considered that they were playing the "revenge is a dish better served cold" card. Ah how can there be any doubt that Tywin ordered gregor to kill Elia, the kids and whatever else also?It's completely like tywins character as we know it to do so Agree. I dunno what that's even a discussion. Jaime, Tyrion and Daven have all mentioned or heard Tywin's philosophy: "there is a tool for every task and a task for every tool". Gregor is Tywin's main tool because he knows he's both effective and disposable. Even if he orders him to do something very distasteful that could give him some enemies, he can always say "well, that was Gregor Clegane being Gregor Clegane, I had nothing to do with it" and people would fall for it (like it's happening in this thread) and later, get him killed as an apologies (like he did to calm Dorne down). Tywin might be a son of a bitch, but he's a magnificent son of a bitch. He knows how to play the game and how to clean his mess quickly so no one sees his blood stained hands. He has done for the whole three books he has appeared, and he could keep doing it had he been alive for the fourth one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It is quite obvious that John Doe was being sarcastic... Yes, indeed. I wanted to say that young age is not really an excuse; I'm not saying that she can't be a better ruler later in her life, but that doesn't matter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I noticed what the OP noticed as well, not because of Tysha but because Tywin actually ordered rape in the riverlands. Tysha he saw as a whore, so that wasn't rape in his mind. Peasants I guess he doesn't care about? As for Elia, I don't see why he would lie to Tyrion. He's cold enough to admit the truth and think his atrocious crimes are justified. I think he genuinely couldn't care less about Elia. By not telling Gregor to spare her, he effectively told him to kill her. If he's wanted her alive, he would have punished Gregor for it. Elia was simply nothing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Tywin actually ordered rape in the riverlands. . Please provide a quote. :read: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 There is no doubt about the kids, that was cruel but smart. There is doubt about Elia, that would be cruel and stupid, and he is not stupid. You don't have to he stupid to make stupid mistakes. Tywin had a giant chip on his shoulder because Elia was queen instead of cersei. This was an insult to his house and Tywin can be stupid when it comes to his house. Elia had to die as she would have been a political enemy to his own daughter who he planned to have as the new queen. Rape and all that was a big f you to Dorne and the Targs for thinking they are better then the lions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You don't have to he stupid to make stupid mistakes. Tywin had a giant chip on his shoulder because Elia was queen instead of cersei. This was an insult to his house and Tywin can be stupid when it comes to his house. Elia had to die as she would have been a political enemy to his own daughter who he planned to have as the new queen. Rape and all that was a big f you to Dorne and the Targs for thinking they are better then the lionsAgain, that is just your interpretation and opinion. But where are the textual evidences that support your thesis? Tyrion's short thoughts about the possibility that his father MIGHT have ordered the murder of Elia is just an opinion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Again, that is just your interpretation and opinion. But where are the textual evidences that support your thesis? Tyrion's short thoughts about the possibility that his father MIGHT have ordered the murder of Elia is just an opinion as well. There is no support for your thesis as well. Only Tywin's words. Which have been a lie a thousand times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Again, that is just your interpretation and opinion. But where are the textual evidences that support your thesis? Tyrion's short thoughts about the possibility that his father MIGHT have ordered the murder of Elia is just an opinion as well.Sack of KLRape of tyshaDisgracing of his father's loverAll petty actions in my opinion that are Tywin getting back at perceived slights and wrongs against him or his familyAnd most things on this site are opinions....thesis or no thesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Sack of KL Rape of tysha Disgracing of his father's loverThat a person commits one crime doesn't mean he commited the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yes, indeed. I wanted to say that young age is not really an excuse; I'm not saying that she can't be a better ruler later in her life, but that doesn't matter now. I didn't use her age as an excuse for her actions. But it does seem pretty logical that an accomplished battle commander, hand of the king, and lord of casterly rock would be better at ruling (because of wither experience or observation) than a 15 yr old girl who has spent the majority of her life dodging hired swords and being abused by her brother. She certainly can become a better ruler later in life, I just think it's a bit of an uneven comparison. There's a reason why most developed countries have age limitations for their chosen leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Tywin has made quite a few stupid decisions, to be honest. He's made a few such as giving Jaime command of so many men, thinking Jaime could be a viable option as heir, and abusing Tyrion. He is stupid sometimes when it comes to family, but not politics and killing Elia is more the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You are right, Dany is too young for leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 That a person commits one crime doesn't mean he commited the other. almost as good as "glove don't fit you must acquit" but light years from an iron clad defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 That a person commits one crime doesn't mean he commited the other. No, but the chances that he commited the other are higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He's made a few such as giving Jaime command of so many men, thinking Jaime could be a viable option as heir, and abusing Tyrion. He is stupid sometimes when it comes to family, but not politics and killing Elia is more the latter. So, in your opinion, Tywin is the perfect politician, since he has never done a mistake in politics? Because that's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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