Veltigar Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Given you think a small child wouldn't have any room to run around a garden large enough to hold a zoo with (as Syrio recalls) zorses, giraffes, hippos, kangaroos, manticores, walking lizards with sythes for claws... I'm not sure you're well placed to decide what's ridiculous. :bowdown: Velociraptors. Those are definitely velociraptors. Domesticated (kinda) Jurassic Park (I suppose that inspired them) Velociraptors living in captivity and not going around killing children. ...but it can't be trees in Braavos. :dunno: Probably wild Velociraptors kept in cages. I don't think the Sealords zoo is one of those cosy modern ones. The truly dangerous specimens are probably locked in oldfashioned cages. Even if we assume that it was warmer in Dany's childhood, Braavos' wind and salt spray sound dreadful. Lol, did you not see the location of the huge building and trees on the artwork. Besides being located right next to a land tongue with pines (which break the wind) and with the whole city to break the wind from the other side, there is a huge building and a ton of trees on the Sea lords island. Those act as windbreakers on their own. And the saltspray must be close to zero there, since there is not much wind. + you know these are all Arya's experiences, she has never even been close to the Sea Lords palace. She has always remained on the other side of Braavos, never venturing past the HoBaW in eastern direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is such a yelly and contentious thread! I'm a noob and read about 3 pages into this before I decided to just ask: why do people want Dany to be wrong aobut Bravos? Is this to amke her an 'unreliable narrator'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Here's a thought: rich people can afford to import things like huge wooden beams. Another: the house with the red door and the house with the lemon tree could be in two different places. Depending on her ages at the times, Dany's memories could be amalgamated into one "happy place" idea that doesn't actually exist. And the least likely, in my opinion: there is not, and never has been house with a red door and a lemon tree--it's a symptom of Dany's madness. I don't believe she's mad, but unfortunately the possibility does exist, thank you author for the Targaryen coin-flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is such a yelly and contentious thread! I'm a noob and read about 3 pages into this before I decided to just ask: why do people want Dany to be wrong aobut Bravos? Is this to amke her an 'unreliable narrator'? We're bored waiting for the next book. But either the author messed up on "there are no lemons in Braavos" or there is a mystery here to solve. People take sides, dig in, and some get very riled about it. I'm pretty open, but I like arguing what's possible even if I don't think it's likely. I consider it an exercise in creativity. Plus it's fun. :D Welcome to the forums. Not all threads are like this by the way, but people seem to have really strong feelings about some of the characters, and Dany is one of those characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 We're bored waiting for the next book. But either the author messed up on "there are no lemons in Braavos" or there is a mystery here to solve. People take sides, dig in, and some get very riled about it. I'm pretty open, but I like arguing what's possible even if I don't think it's likely. I consider it an exercise in creativity. Plus it's fun. :D Welcome to the forums. Not all threads are like this by the way, but people seem to have really strong feelings about some of the characters, and Dany is one of those characters. I'll take this over the thread that was asking if ants are minerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You're using Occam wrong. Where is more probable? That the Sealord of Braavos got a lemon tree in his backyard or that the Dany we know isn't Dany, the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella but some girl raised somewhere else, switched at birth, and raised in some place because yadayadayada and where she actually lived there were lemontrees and more yadas. When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras. I think striped unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is such a yelly and contentious thread! I'm a noob and read about 3 pages into this before I decided to just ask: why do people want Dany to be wrong aobut Bravos? Is this to amke her an 'unreliable narrator'? Mostly Dany hate, (they'd like to use this as proof that Dany is Maegor the Cruel reborn) coupled with an incredible wish to overcomplicate things because they can't grasp certain facts (e.g. Rich people have expensive stuff, Arya has never ventured passed the poor part of the city, an orangery is built to protect things like lemon trees from winter, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Mostly Dany hate, (they'd like to use this as proof that Dany is Maegor the Cruel reborn) coupled with an incredible wish to overcomplicate things because they can't grasp certain facts (e.g. Rich people have expensive stuff, Arya has never ventured passed the poor part of the city, an orangery is built to protect things like lemon trees from winter, etc.) Dany hate confuses me. She's my favorite character and I thought Id be in the majority by far, but I guess I'm just weird. Also my grandparents when they lived in Connecticut had a lemon tree. It was small but it thrived, no greenhouse or anything. So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is such a yelly and contentious thread! I'm a noob and read about 3 pages into this before I decided to just ask: why do people want Dany to be wrong aobut Bravos? Is this to amke her an 'unreliable narrator'?People get really emotional about this issue because it calls into question Dany's whole childhood and puts her into the "baby mix." Could she be Lyanna's? Could she be Ashara's? Who knows.It drives a lot of fans bonkers, but since I believe R+L=D, I'm okay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Dany hate confuses me. She's my favorite character and I thought Id be in the majority by far, but I guess I'm just weird. Also my grandparents when they lived in Connecticut had a lemon tree. It was small but it thrived, no greenhouse or anything. So there. No, you're normal. The Dany haters are a very vocal minority. Not saying that she's the favourite character of most posters (not mine in any case), but most feel a bit lukewarm about her (because of some questionable chapters in ADWD I'd say), that's why it's easy to bash her. Not many people go against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 People get really emotional about this issue because it calls into question Dany's whole childhood and puts her into the "baby mix." Could she be Lyanna's? Could she be Ashara's? Who knows.It drives a lot of fans bonkers, but since I believe R+L=D, I'm okay with it.Ned would know for one. And he never thinks about this in GOT. Maybe Im missing something obvious, but how would this throw her into the baby mix at all? Also I love how biased the answers to my question are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ned would know for one. And he never thinks about this in GOT. Maybe Im missing something obvious, but how would this throw her into the baby mix at all? Also I love how biased the answers to my question are. Well, Ned doesn't think about a lot of things. But, Ned does start thinking about the ToJ and feelings of broken promises after Robert orders Dany's execution and is adamant about protecting her. Ned is ready to leave KL, has the ToJ dream and wants to stay in KL. This makes some, including me, believe that Dany was at the ToJ. Ned's relationship with Jon, on the other hand, is static throughout the story. But, yes, we are all pretty biased. The story is actually pretty darn ambiguous and anything could be coming. I imagine we'll all be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is such a yelly and contentious thread! I'm a noob and read about 3 pages into this before I decided to just ask: why do people want Dany to be wrong aobut Bravos? Is this to amke her an 'unreliable narrator'? Mostly Dany hate, (they'd like to use this as proof that Dany is Maegor the Cruel reborn) coupled with an incredible wish to overcomplicate things because they can't grasp certain facts (e.g. Rich people have expensive stuff, Arya has never ventured passed the poor part of the city, an orangery is built to protect things like lemon trees from winter, etc.) It's not only hate and it's not only Dany. It's like many are on the run for the next groundbreaking theory, even if they need to deny some known facts for it. I mean, as GRRM has showed people in disguised, then everybody is in disguised. As a baby was (allegedly) switched, then all babies could have been switched. As some people have faked their deaths, then eeeeevrybody is faking them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 "My personal opinion is more true than what GRRM wrote" - sorry, I automatically negate those arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 It's not only hate and it's not only Dany. It's like many are on the run for the next groundbreaking theory, even if they need to deny some known facts for it. I mean, as GRRM has showed people in disguised, then everybody is in disguised. As a baby was (allegedly) switched, then all babies could have been switched. As some people have faked their deaths, then eeeeevrybody is faking them too. That doesn't sound like a fun wayto approach the books. Like, what's wrong with having an "out there" idea and just being willing to call it crackpot? I dont get passionately arguing it to the ground. Just say "hey, I think its weird GRRM calls out a lack of citrus in Bravos multiple times. Let's chat about that." But instead to argue in all serious that Dany had a fake Ser Willem in Dorne and was too young to remeber viserys and he just flat out lied to her for no reason. It's a little too hostile for my liking. I'd also guess that most crackpots from here didnt pan out in AFFC and DWD? Sorry if that seems rude. It's only that i've yet to see someone go, "oh hey. This is crazy, but what if..." The language people use here is super self-assured and combative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Are we still going on about this. Agree with Tyene, this has gotten ridiculously combative. They are both plausible, both the Sealord's Palace and her not being in Braavos because as mentioned several times there are no lemon trees in Braavos.Nothing is proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Dany hate confuses me. She's my favorite character and I thought Id be in the majority by far, but I guess I'm just weird. Also my grandparents when they lived in Connecticut had a lemon tree. It was small but it thrived, no greenhouse or anything. So there. How dare you bring basic common sense into this! The dogmatic insistence that there cannot be a lemon tree anywhere in Braavos ever, even in summer, is a central tenet of the faith that Dany is not Dany, but rather a changeling. To what purpose who knows but there you go. This faith has only a few dedicated worshippers and really there's only 3 guys pumping out hundreds of posts on this. You already know who I mean. Faith is a matter of belief so just tune them out or bunker down for a long argument that goes round in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyene's Double Daggers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 How dare you bring basic common sense into this! The dogmatic insistence that there cannot be a lemon tree anywhere in Braavos ever, even in summer, is a central tenet of the faith that Dany is not Dany, but rather a changeling. Granted Im not sure Martin is going to go in the direction of "well I knew of one lemon tree that did okay in the northeast." :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Mostly Dany hate, (they'd like to use this as proof that Dany is Maegor the Cruel reborn) coupled with an incredible wish to overcomplicate things because they can't grasp certain facts (e.g. Rich people have expensive stuff, Arya has never ventured passed the poor part of the city, an orangery is built to protect things like lemon trees from winter, etc.) As the OP, I have to disagree with your assessment. I do not hate Daenerys, in fact she is one of my favorite characters (and the rightful queen! ;) ). There is just some inconsistencies here, and a lot of special pleading about the Sealords Palace that I don't accept. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Granted Im not sure Martin is going to go in the direction of "well I knew of one lemon tree that did okay in the northeast." :D One important aspect of this discussion is that this lemon tree fight has been going among fans for years. Then, the Mercy chapter came out this year, which has two gaurds specifically talking about whether ot not citrus grows in Braavos. Now, some argue that the guards aren't from Braavos, so what do they know? While, that may be true, it does positively show that the lemon tree puzzle is an intentional puzzle from GRRM. Maybe its a clue or maybe its a red herring, but its intentional and not imagined by fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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