Why is Tystane Martell heir of Dorne? on the show?

[Julia Martell]

*Raises Hand* I'll even raise with something akin to Trystane being the Kingmaker. Because Myrcella can't want for herself! Her husband knows best.

After Talisa, I'm not surprised.

Do the Unsullied like Talisa?

And yeah, I'm trying to withhold judgement, but after the fourth season, I find it very, very hard.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Do the Unsullied like Talisa?

And yeah, I'm trying to withhold judgement, but after the fourth season, I find it very, very hard.

I seem to remember the vast majority was rather "meh" about the character and grossed out by her excessive death

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Do the Unsullied like Talisa?

And yeah, I'm trying to withhold judgement, but after the fourth season, I find it very, very hard.

Most unsullied I know barely care for her/blame her for Robb's downfall.

The worst part is, the show was always notorious for adding plots that made no sense - Hence, Ros, Joffrey's sub-plot with the two whores, Podrick's brothel scenes. Season 4 was just the icing on the cake (Episode 4 was generally a weak episode, followed by Episode 5, with Jon's Craster sub-plot, and Bran not really going anywhere)

[Ingelheim]

Most unsullied I know barely care for her/blame her for Robb's downfall.

The worst part is, the show was always notorious for adding plots that made no sense - Hence, Ros, Joffrey's sub-plot with the two whores, Podrick's brothel scenes. Season was just the icing on the cake (Episode 4 was generally a weak episode, followed by Episode 5, with Jon's Craster sub-plot, and Bran not really going anywhere)

Actually, I loved Craster's Keep and it's one of the worst rated episodes of the season 4.

I mean...tastes differ.

I, for example, hate 2x09, when many people seem to love it.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Actually, I loved Craster's Keep and it's one of the worst rated episodes of the season 4.

I mean...tastes differ.

I, for example, hate 2x09, when many people seem to love it.

They do. I personally consider 2x09 the best episode of GOT. It had so many good character-driven moments between Sansa and Cersei, Tyrion and Bronn, Sandor and Sansa, Stannis and Davos, and in a whole, I think the episode worked, especially in comparison with 4X09, a technically superior episode, yet lacking on emotion, at least for me.

I personally dislike Craster's Keep, but we can agree to disagree :cheers:

[Ingelheim]

They do. I personally consider 2x09 the best episode of GOT. It had so many good character-driven moments between Sansa and Cersei, Tyrion and Bronn, Sandor and Sansa, Stannis and Davos, and in a whole, I think the episode worked, especially in comparison with 4X09, a technically superior episode, yet lacking on emotion, at least for me.

I personally dislike Craster's Keep, but we can agree to disagree :cheers:

See? I loved 4x09. I think Grenn's death and Kit's master use of the sword were extraordinary. Also, the soundtrack was like heaven, and Alliser Throne was badass. Not mentioning Tormund or Edd, classy.

I think Craster's Keep worked as a episode that shows us Jon's skills as a leader. Also, Burn Gorman as the fooking legend of Gin Alley...

[Red Tiger]

Do the Unsullied like Talisa?

And yeah, I'm trying to withhold judgement, but after the fourth season, I find it very, very hard.

None of my friends seem to remember her :dunno:

[Julia Martell]

They do. I personally consider 2x09 the best episode of GOT. It had so many good character-driven moments between Sansa and Cersei, Tyrion and Bronn, Sandor and Sansa, Stannis and Davos, and in a whole, I think the episode worked, especially in comparison with 4X09, a technically superior episode, yet lacking on emotion, at least for me.

I personally dislike Craster's Keep, but we can agree to disagree :cheers:

This is kind of what I mean. The Battle at the Wall episode was a transparent attempt to reproduce the success of the Blackwater episode, and also missing what made it good. All they seem to care about now is recreating past successes.

Most unsullied I know barely care for her/blame her for Robb's downfall.

The worst part is, the show was always notorious for adding plots that made no sense - Hence, Ros, Joffrey's sub-plot with the two whores, Podrick's brothel scenes. Season 4 was just the icing on the cake (Episode 4 was generally a weak episode, followed by Episode 5, with Jon's Craster sub-plot, and Bran not really going anywhere)

I managed to repress the whole Pod thing.... thanks.

And why are all the prostitutes in Westeros also contortionists? Answer me that.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

See? I loved 4x09. I think Grenn's death and Kit's master use of the sword were extraordinary. Also, the soundtrack was like heaven, and Alliser Throne was badass. Not mentioning Tormund or Edd, classy.

I think Craster's Keep worked as a episode that shows us Jon's skills as a leader. Also, Burn Gorman as the fooking legend of Gin Alley...

Yeah, I thought 4x09 was a good episode. I mean, Grenn and Pyp had to go, as they were the closest to emotionally attached characters to the audience (Though that's debatable, as two unsullied watching with me barely remembered their existence). All in all, I agree Kit showed his skills in a brilliantly choreographed scene, Alliser Thorne had his moment. But I just couldn't emotionally invest in the episode. For example, I thought Ygritte's death was poorly executed. That's one of my favorite scenes in the books (And my favorite from Jon's POV), and yet, in the show, it seemed to be a rush to get it done, as a list of plot points that need to be completed. (In parts, I feel the show this season has felt a lot like that, as much as Season 3 felt dragged to the Red Wedding).

Yes, I loved Burn Gorman as well. My problem with Craster's Keep is that it didn't went anywhere - If so, what was the point? Jon was established already as a Leader, and the time, as it is so often said, in regards to the show, is short to be spent on a plot that didn't made difference. Locke was the most useless character, besides Ros, to ever walk on the show.

[nastydream]

Sorry Pod's brothel scene was hilarious.

THe one I don't like is Missandei and Grey worm's romantic subplot

[Game of Thrones Reference]

Like Ross's story? Emphasized Varys' and Littlefinger's rivalry.

Like having LF's multiple brothel scenes that belabor points about his character? He explained several plot points during these scenes, though the location could have been changed.

Like Podrick Payne's magic penis? Agreed

Like having Joffrey abusing prostitutes? Character development

Like Margaery-Joffrey's ultimately irrelevant relationship? Margaery's character development.

Like Margaery seducing Tommen when that doesn't really matter either? Leading up to Cercei's and Margaery's rivalry

Like Theon's multiple torture scenes? (and one medically impossible one where his castrated and doesn't bleed to death? Because no book!Theon hasn't been castrated) Agreed to a certain extent. They needed to show how Theon was transformed into Reek, though they went way overboard.

Like Oberyn's multiple and ultimately pointless brothel scenes where we learn no much more than that he likes to fuck. Agreed.

Like Tywin's uber-important POV scenes in season 5? I don't know what you mean here.

Glad I'm not the only one RoaminRonin.

Responses in bold.

[Ingelheim]

Yeah, I thought 4x09 was a good episode. I mean, Grenn and Pyp had to go, as they were the closest to emotionally attached characters to the audience (Though that's debatable, as two unsullied watching with me barely remembered their existence). All in all, I agree Kit showed his skills in a brilliantly choreographed scene, Alliser Thorne had his moment. But I just couldn't emotionally invest in the episode. For example, I thought Ygritte's death was poorly executed. That's one of my favorite scenes in the books (And my favorite from Jon's POV), and yet, in the show, it seemed to be a rush to get it done, as a list of plot points that need to be completed. (In parts, I feel the show this season has felt a lot like that, as much as Season 3 felt dragged to the Red Wedding).

Yes, I loved Burn Gorman as well. My problem with Craster's Keep is that it didn't went anywhere - If so, what was the point? Jon was established already as a Leader, and the time, as it is so often said, in regards to the show, is short to be spent on a plot that didn't made difference. Locke was the most useless character, besides Ros, to ever walk on the show.

Agreed on Ygritte's death.

But many things in the books don't go anywhere, like Brienne's trip in AFFC until her last 2 POVs, or Quentyn's one. Craster's Keep could have been done better, I agree with you on that, and Locke could and should have been kept alive. Maybe a scene in which Jon lets Bran go...that would have been brilliant.

But, overall, I tell you this: Jon's arc this season 4 is probably the best of the season.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

This is kind of what I mean. The Battle at the Wall episode was a transparent attempt to reproduce the success of the Blackwater episode, and also missing what made it good. All they seem to care about now is recreating past successes.

I managed to repress the whole Pod thing.... thanks.

And why are all the prostitutes in Westeros also contortionists? Answer me that.

I agree. The Battle at the Wall episode seemed to expect something akin to Blackwater, and was thinly planned to reproduce it - The same character interactions, the quieter moments balancing the fight, et caetera. The biggest problem for me is that the Wall wasn't a center of characters in the vein King's Landing was, and It could never have the same emotional weight.

Sorry. I've been in therapy for Pod, but I still haven't been able to forget.

LOL, I think it's a Lecture given by LF's brothel. "The art of selling your body: All best positions in a fortnight."

Agreed on Ygritte's death.

But many things in the books don't go anywhere, like Brienne's trip in AFFC until her last 2 POVs, or Quentyn's one. Craster's Keep could have been done better, I agree with you on that, and Locke could and should have been kept alive. Maybe a scene in which Jon lets Bran go...that would have been brilliant.

But, overall, I tell you this: Jon's arc this season 4 is probably the best of the season.

I agree. But the issue is that the show usually justifies it's changes with "We just don't have time", which is certainly not true. Look at Tyrion's change. That was a brutally change of characterization. And that was the answer. Quentyn is a dearly character to me, but I do think It's a plot that it's mostly filler and the show shouldn't bother with it. George never claimed he did not had time to other characters. All in all, I think the issue is Craster's Keep seemed too much of an unnecessary tease. Jon and Bran not meeting is even more silly. And it just seems OOC of Jon to not even search for his brother. I agree that a scene where Jon would let Bran go would have been brilliant.

I agree with you that Jon's arc was the best for Jon in all four seasons.

[Red Tiger]

This is kind of what I mean. The Battle at the Wall episode was a transparent attempt to reproduce the success of the Blackwater episode, and also missing what made it good. All they seem to care about now is recreating past successes.

For the life of me, I will never understand why review sites gave that episode 10/10

[Ingelheim]

For the life of me, I will never understand why review sites gave that episode 10/10

Because, and this is the key for all this debate:

We are book readers, they are not. We know how things happened; they don't.

Book readers ALWAYS will have something to say about a movie/TV adaptation. Like we do. Unsullied...they don't.

[klemenko]

I mean, it's lke the people still angry at Peter Jackson because he didn't do the Tom Bombadil part, or Glorfindel, or having Arwen as a warrior. 17 Oscars and 30 nominations after, with a box office of 2700 millions, Peter is still laughing.

People (including yours truly) are angry at PJ not because of what he cut but because of what he added.

[Ingelheim]

People (including yours truly) are angry at PJ not because of what he cut but because of what he added.

I can tell you I am not. I think of LOTR as the most faithful adaptation of books ever done.

Even with the mistakes, added scenes, cuts, etc, you can truly say that Peter Jackson loved the books and did everything he could to translate that feeling into screen.

I cannot always said that about D&D. In fact, they just seem to care about half of the characters.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I can tell you I am not. I think of LOTR as the most faithful adaptation of books ever done.

Even with the mistakes, added scenes, cuts, etc, you can truly say that Peter Jackson loved the books and did everything he could to translate that feeling into screen.

I cannot always said that about D&D. In fact, they just seem to care about half of the characters.

Agreed. The Hobbit trilogy is a mess (And in a smaller scale, so is the Return), but Peter Jackson cares much more about LOTR than D&D care for ASOIAF.

[Red Tiger]

Sorry Pod's brothel scene was hilarious.

THe one I don't like is Missandei and Grey worm's romantic subplot

Missandei is a beautiful woman, but yes I agree that the romantic subplot makes no sense whatsoever

[HexMachina]

I mean, it's lke the people still angry at Peter Jackson because he didn't do the Tom Bombadil part, or Glorfindel, or having Arwen as a warrior. 17 Oscars and 30 nominations after, with a box office of 2700 millions, Peter is still laughing.

And then he just had to go rub salt in the wound with The Hobbit :crying: :crying: