Will the Iron Men take Oldtown?

[A Bastard Snow]

Just to mention some stuff.

1. The Hightowers aren't leaving for the Shield Islands, the fleet being built/hired are meant to protect the Sound, not to project power.

2. The city will be protected by like 10,000-15,000 men, it'll not be blackwater with the defender being outnumbered 3:1.

3. Lord Leyton being stupid to fall in the Rodrik gambit would contradict his stance in the entire war.

Plot magic.

I imagine a giant storm will destroy the entire Redwyne fleet and Hightower/Redyne army (who are for some reason all on the boats) while Euron rides a massive wave on a surfboard right at the Hightower and then leaps off the board and lands on the tower and then proceeds to capture/kill all the Hightowers.

[PatrickStormborn]

Except Euron wasn't introduced as a really threatening protagonist, IMO,and he already has impacted the storyline by sending the Iron Fleet to Dany and creating division between the Reach and Cersei. The "great stone beast breathing shadowfire" doesn't fit Euron in any way.

KL could still lose the Arbor and Oldtown without Euron taking them by way of joining Aegon. They supported Aegon II in the first Dance.

He is quite clearly introduced as a threatening antagonist - Aeron's chapters attest to that. He most likely sexually assaulted his own brother(s), he raped his brother's saltwife (and countless other women, I'd imagine), he most likely had Balon assassinated, the crew of his ship are all mute, he encountered the warlocks from Qarth and most likely killed Pyat Pree, etc.

There is also significant foreshadowing that Euron will be a serious antagonist towards Dany. Moqorro says that, of the others who seek Daenerys, "one most of all" stands out:

A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.

Then there's the foreshadowing of a potential marriage and/or sexual relationship between Euron and Daenerys:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

The second vision points towards Euron more than any other character in the series. He's pale with bruised lips, suggesting he may not be entirely alive; one of his eyes is noted to be as blue as the summer sky (called his smiling eye); and "grey lips smiling sadly" of course points towards a Greyjoy.

Further evidence:

Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her..... but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

I disagree that the stone beast doesn't fit Euron. Why not? It certainly fits the pattern of the "slayer of lies" referring to the three other Iron Throne pretenders. He's expressed a desire to fly, and we know he's trying to get a dragon. We also know that Leyton Hightower and his daughter are plotting something at the top of Hightower. I'm not 100% sold on this theory, of course, but to me it makes the most sense.

Euron turned to face him, his bruised blue lips curled in a half smile. “Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?”

You're right that King's Landing could still lose the Arbor and Oldtown without them falling to Euron, but using the original dance of the dragons as evidence is really a stretch. I think you're making the mistake of focusing too heavily on Aegon at the expense of Dany's other opponents.

And, honestly, I think Euron is the most terrifying human character in the entire series. There is no way GRRM builds him up to this extent only to have him defeated soon.

[Trickrs]

Plot magic.

I imagine a giant storm will destroy the entire Redwyne fleet and Hightower/Redyne army (who are for some reason all on the boats) while Euron rides a massive wave on a surfboard right at the Hightower and then leaps off the board and lands on the tower and then proceeds to capture/kill all the Hightowers.

Nope, Damphair will summon the Kraken first.

Krakens > Crows

[Fire Eater]

He is quite clearly introduced as a threatening antagonist - Aeron's chapters attest to that. He most likely sexually assaulted his own brother(s), he raped his brother's saltwife (and countless other women, I'd imagine), he most likely had Balon assassinated, the crew of his ship are all mute, he encountered the warlocks from Qarth and most likely killed Pyat Pree, etc.

What he does against his family doesn't qualify him as a major threat to Dany, IMO.

Then there's the foreshadowing of a potential marriage and/or sexual relationship between Euron and Daenerys:

The second vision points towards Euron more than any other character in the series. He's pale with bruised lips, suggesting he may not be entirely alive; one of his eyes is noted to be as blue as the summer sky (called his smiling eye); and "grey lips smiling sadly" of course points towards a Greyjoy.

Except one problem, Euron is nowhere near Dany. He is in Westeros while she is in Essos. The "sea of blood" matches Jorah's description of the Dothraki Sea, which Euron is nowhere near but Victarion is. Also, I doubt Dany would hear of anything good about Euron from Tyrion and Victarion. The dream mentions Hizdahr as cold, something Euron is never described as. Whereas with Tyrion:

You were as cold as ice, and your lips were blue.

His lips are described as blue and he is described as cold as ice.

"Grey lips smiling" doesn't point to a Greyjoy, that is a stretch I think. Where is it implied he isn't entirely alive? There is one occurrence of lips smiling in the description Tyrion gives the head of the man who killed his father:

Why it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

Tyrion killed his father, and there is the likely chance he had greyscale.

Further evidence:

I disagree that the stone beast doesn't fit Euron. Why not? It certainly fits the pattern of the "slayer of lies" referring to the three other Iron Throne pretenders. He's expressed a desire to fly, and we know he's trying to get a dragon. We also know that Leyton Hightower and his daughter are plotting something at the top of Hightower. I'm not 100% sold on this theory, of course, but to me it makes the most sense.

Because Euron has never been connected to stone, or shadowfire. As for "slayer of lies," you neglect to mention what lie would be slain regarding him. It has to be a lie to have a big impact such as Stannis not being AA, Aegon being fake, etc. The stone beast fits Jon better, IMO, given stone has been given connections with hiding things and a stone dragon could be a hidden Targaryen. The lie of Jon being Ned's son would be a big impact when it is slain.

You're right that King's Landing could still lose the Arbor and Oldtown without them falling to Euron, but using the original dance of the dragons as evidence is really a stretch. I think you're making the mistake of focusing too heavily on Aegon at the expense of Dany's other opponents.

And, honestly, I think Euron is the most terrifying human character in the entire series. There is no way GRRM builds him up to this extent only to have him defeated soon.

GRRM uses history of ASOIAF as hints for the main storyline. Dany has the Iron Fleet, the main military force of the Iron ISles, and Euron no longer has the dragonhorn which has been sabotaged.

I think the building up is exaggerated. We only see him a few times, and his plan for attacking the Reach without the dragons is insane.

[aryagonnakill#2]

What he does against his family doesn't qualify him as a major threat to Dany, IMO.

Except one problem, Euron is nowhere near Dany. He is in Westeros while she is in Essos. The "sea of blood" matches Jorah's description of the Dothraki Sea, which Euron is nowhere near but Victarion is. Also, I doubt Dany would hear of anything good about Euron from Tyrion and Victarion. The dream mentions Euron as could, something he is never described as. Whereas with Tyrion:

You were as cold as ice, and your lips were blue.

His lips are described as blue and he is described as cold as ice.

"Grey lips smiling" doesn't point to a Greyjoy, that is a stretch I think. Where is it implied he isn't entirely alive? There is one occurrence of lips smiling in the description Tyrion gives the head of the man who killed his father:

Why it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

Tyrion killed his father, and there is the likely chance he had greyscale.

Because Euron has never been connected to stone, or shadowfire. As for "slayer of lies," you neglect to mention what lie would be slain regarding him. It has to be a lie to have a big impact such as Stannis not being AA, Aegon being fake, etc. The stone beast fits Jon better, IMO, given stone has been given connections with hiding things and a stone dragon could be a hidden Targaryen. The lie of Jon being Ned's son would be a big impact when it is slain.

GRRM uses history of ASOIAF as hints for the main storyline. Dany has the Iron Fleet, the main military force of the Iron ISles, and Euron no longer has the dragonhorn which has been sabotaged.

I think the building up is exaggerated. We only see him a few times, and his plan for attacking the Reach without the dragons is insane.

I'm not really inclined to believe this but she could potentially call him out on not going to Valyria.

[PatrickStormborn]

What he does against his family doesn't qualify him as a major threat to Dany, IMO.

No, but it sets him up as a threatening antagonist. Clearly someone who sexually abuses his own brothers is not someone we would want Dany to have a sexual relationship with (and, from the imagery of her dream, I'd argue that it won't entirely be consensual).

Except one problem, Euron is nowhere near Dany. He is in Westeros while she is in Essos. The "sea of blood" matches Jorah's description of the Dothraki Sea, which Euron is nowhere near but Victarion is. Also, I doubt Dany would hear of anything good about Euron from Tyrion and Victarion. The dream mentions Hizdahr as cold, something Euron is never described as. Whereas with Tyrion:

You were as cold as ice, and your lips were blue.

His lips are described as blue and he is described as cold as ice.

"Grey lips smiling" doesn't point to a Greyjoy, that is a stretch I think. Where is it implied he isn't entirely alive? There is one occurrence of lips smiling in the description Tyrion gives the head of the man who killed his father:

Why it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

Tyrion killed his father, and there is the likely chance he had greyscale.

Why does Moqorro see Euron, even though he's not directly travelling to Daenerys? Because he SEEKS her, and he's dangerous. Victarion has only been sent to Daenerys on Euron's command; he's a pawn, hence the symbolism of the "ten arms" (along with it symbolising a kraken, of course).

Of course Dany isn't going to "hear of anything good about Euron". So what? I never said she would ally with him willingly, hence why the dream is a nightmare. Euron is never described as cold because none of the POV characters touch him. I've already explained where it's implied he isn't entirely alive: he has BRUISED lips and a pale complexion, and he's likely been involved in dark magic with the warlocks.

I find it very unlikely that the dream refers to Tyrion. His lips were blue once, he was cold as ice once, and yet there is no indication that he is anything but living. The nightmare Dany has specifically refers to a man with lips that are both blue and bruised. Only Euron matches that description. Moreover, the corpse at the prow of the ship is never referred to as being a dwarf, nor does Tyrion have "bright" eyes.

"Grey lips smiling" = Grey joy.

I'm open to other suggestions on who the corpse in the vision is, but I think there is enough evidence that it MAY point to Euron, particularly combined with the nightmare she has. (Another theory of mine is that the vision refers to Aegon: a "corpse" because he's supposed to be dead, grey lips because he's contracted greyscale, "eyes bright" referring to his Valyrian eyes. But that is more of a stretch than Euron, IMO.)

Because Euron has never been connected to stone, or shadowfire. As for "slayer of lies," you neglect to mention what lie would be slain regarding him. It has to be a lie to have a big impact such as Stannis not being AA, Aegon being fake, etc. The stone beast fits Jon better, IMO, given stone has been given connections with hiding things and a stone dragon could be a hidden Targaryen. The lie of Jon being Ned's son would be a big impact when it is slain.

The visions show a fake Azor Ahai, a fake Targaryen, and finally a fake dragon.

GRRM uses history of ASOIAF as hints for the main storyline. Dany has the Iron Fleet, the main military force of the Iron ISles, and Euron no longer has the dragonhorn which has been sabotaged.

I think the building up is exaggerated. We only see him a few times, and his plan for attacking the Reach without the dragons is insane.

Yes, GRRM uses history as HINTS for the main storyline, not a step-by-step guide. But for the record, Dany does not currently have the Iron Fleet. That is purely speculation until TWoW. She is currently in the Dothraki Sea and most likely heading towards Vaes Dothrak (based on the official Lands of Ice and Fire character journey maps and her vision in the House of the Undying). If her final chapter takes place after the Battle of Meereen like most of us speculate, then it's reasonable to assume that she may not even get a chance to return to Meereen.

Yes, we only see him a few times... suggesting that his role is probably far from over.

Attacking the Reach without dragons is not necessarily insane if the opportunity arises... and the opportunity has arisen. The Reach forces are divided, the Lannister/Tyrell alliance is collapsing, and Aegon is turning the attention of the crown away from Euron.

But I don't think Euron will make a move on Oldtown or Highgarden until the Iron Fleet and/or Daenerys have returned.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

I still think the naval corpse of the House of the Undying is Theon, as I have detailed in another thread, but otherwise entirely agreed - and Moqorro's vision is quite evidently Euron.

[aFeastForDragons]

"A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

Euron is going to bring Westeros to its knees if Vic brings him back a Dragon. I know George has a habit of killing off characters that look like they are succeeding but there is no way Euron is going down until he has caused some major trouble. I can see him sacking Oldtown and taking some very valuable items and information from the Citadel.

First the Redwyne fleet is going to be smashed by Euron's warlocks.

[Mithras]

But I don't think Euron will make a move on Oldtown or Highgarden until the Iron Fleet and/or Daenerys have returned.

Euron already made moves against Oldtown.

The news from the Reach seemed to grow more dire with every raven. The ironmen had not been content with their new rocks, it seemed. They were raiding up the Mander in strength, and had gone so far as to attack the Arbor and the smaller islands that surrounded it. The Redwynes had kept no more than a dozen warships in their home waters, and all those had been overwhelmed, taken, or sunk. And now there were reports that this madman who called himself Euron Crow’s Eye was even sending longships up Whispering Sound toward Oldtown.

“My apologies,” the captain said when his inspection was complete. “It grieves me that honest men must suffer such discourtesy, but sooner that than ironmen in Oldtown. Only a fortnight ago some of those bloody bastards captured a Tyroshi merchantman in the straits. They killed her crew, donned their clothes, and used the dyes they found to color their whiskers half a hundred colors. Once inside the walls they meant to set the port ablaze and open a gate from within whilst we fought the fire. Might have worked, but they ran afoul of the Lady of the Tower, and her oarsmaster has a Tyroshi wife. When he saw all the green and purple beards he hailed them in the tongue of Tyrosh, and not one of them had the words to hail him back.”

Sam was aghast. “They cannot mean to raid Oldtown.”

The captain of the Huntress gave him a curious look. “These are no mere reavers. The ironmen have always raided where they could. They would strike sudden from the sea, carry off some gold and girls, and sail away, but there were seldom more than one or two longships, and never more than half a dozen. Hundreds of their ships afflict us now, sailing out of the Shield Islands and some of the rocks around the Arbor. They have taken Stonecrab Cay, the Isle of Pigs, and the Mermaid’s Palace, and there are other nests on Horseshoe Rock and Bastard’s Cradle. Without Lord Redwyne’s fleet, we lack the ships to come to grips with them.”

[Fire Eater]

No, but it sets him up as a threatening antagonist. Clearly someone who sexually abuses his own brothers is not someone we would want Dany to have a sexual relationship with (and, from the imagery of her dream, I'd argue that it won't entirely be consensual).

I think that is a stretch. The same could be said for Victarion who hopes to marry Dany. I doubt Euron could rape Dany. The logistics are impossible given she would surrounded by a large army loyal to her. Not even Euron is that dumb.

Why does Moqorro see Euron, even though he's not directly travelling to Daenerys? Because he SEEKS her, and he's dangerous. Victarion has only been sent to Daenerys on Euron's command; he's a pawn, hence the symbolism of the "ten arms" (along with it symbolising a kraken, of course).

Of course Dany isn't going to "hear of anything good about Euron". So what? I never said she would ally with him willingly, hence why the dream is a nightmare. Euron is never described as cold because none of the POV characters touch him. I've already explained where it's implied he isn't entirely alive: he has BRUISED lips and a pale complexion, and he's likely been involved in dark magic with the warlocks.

Except it isn't explicitly mentioned that what he sees is Euron. He sees the sigil of House Greyjoy, and who is to say Victarion won't lose an eye?

Especially given Barristan compared the Battle of Meereen to the Battle of Redgrass Field where one combatant lost his eye.

Euron isn't seeking after her, Victarion is. Euron decided to stay back home.

How could be allied with him unwillingly? People are described as cold without being touched, such as Tywin. The lips are clearly from drinking shade-of-the-evening. A pale complexion wouldn't be out of place in someplace like the Iron Isles where it storms frequently. Even Oberyn remarks the Westerlands's skies which are in close proximity to the Iron Isles as being "too grey." He is likely leaving the magic to the warlocks, and trying to get what he can out of it without delving into specifics.

I find it very unlikely that the dream refers to Tyrion. His lips were blue once, he was cold as ice once, and yet there is no indication that he is anything but living. The nightmare Dany has specifically refers to a man with lips that are both blue and bruised. Only Euron matches that description. Moreover, the corpse at the prow of the ship is never referred to as being a dwarf, nor does Tyrion have "bright" eyes.

"Grey lips smiling" = Grey joy.

I'm open to other suggestions on who the corpse in the vision is, but I think there is enough evidence that it MAY point to Euron, particularly combined with the nightmare she has. (Another theory of mine is that the vision refers to Aegon: a "corpse" because he's supposed to be dead, grey lips because he's contracted greyscale, "eyes bright" referring to his Valyrian eyes. But that is more of a stretch than Euron, IMO.)

Tyrion was pretty much dead on the inside after he fled KL. Besides, he could be a dead man walking if Haldon proves to be right that Tyrion could be turning grey from the inside out. It would fit the "grey lips" in the vision. Tyrion lips were bruised from the beating Jorah gave him one time. Tyrion has a bright green eye, and Euron's eyes aren't described as bright either to be fair. Also, this passage: her [Myrcella's] green eyes bright with fever.

I think physical impediments, being thousands of miles apart makes it unlikely to be Euron. Not to mention, I doubt he will take Oldtown with Sam as a POV there, Sam would be killed or he would be alive with nothing to contribute to the plot post-sack. Also Jaqen's plotline that needs to be revealed.

The visions show a fake Azor Ahai, a fake Targaryen, and finally a fake dragon.

Except Jon isn't a fake dragon. What do you mean by "fake dragon?" It can't refer to Aegon since he has already been mentioned, and it can't refer to Stannis with a dragon Mel wakened since he also has been already mentioned. Both scenraios would just be redundant when the three visions are supposed to refer to three different things. Also, when the trios of visions, the third vision is always connected to Jon somehow: Rhaegar dying at the Trident saying Lyanna's name, and a blue rose growing in the Wall. Given that, it is not unreasonable to assume it refers to Jon. Dragons refer to Targaryens in visions, and a stone dragon would be a hidden Targaryen given the things hidden connected to stone: Sansa hiding under "Alayne Stone," Rickon hiding on Skagos which means "stone" in the Old Tongue, Arya hiding Needle under a stone on the steps, etc.

Yes, GRRM uses history as HINTS for the main storyline, not a step-by-step guide. But for the record, Dany does not currently have the Iron Fleet. That is purely speculation until TWoW. She is currently in the Dothraki Sea and most likely heading towards Vaes Dothrak (based on the official Lands of Ice and Fire character journey maps and her vision in the House of the Undying). If her final chapter takes place after the Battle of Meereen like most of us speculate, then it's reasonable to assume that she may not even get a chance to return to Meereen.

Yes, we only see him a few times... suggesting that his role is probably far from over.

Why else would GRRM send the Iron Fleet when Dany needs a fleet if it just going to go back to the Iron Isles after stopping in Meereen? How else is Dany going to get to Westeros? Do you think she would abandon Meereen leaving behind her two children: Rhaegal and Viserion, her freedmen, her army, her friends, etc. That would be a politically and militarily dumb move not to mention it goes against her character. How would she get to Westeros in that scenario? Who is "most of us?"

His role would be over if Sam kills him. It would be a milestone in Sam's arc, and Aegon will have gained Oldtown.

Attacking the Reach without dragons is not necessarily insane if the opportunity arises... and the opportunity has arisen. The Reach forces are divided, the Lannister/Tyrell alliance is collapsing, and Aegon is turning the attention of the crown away from Euron.

But I don't think Euron will make a move on Oldtown or Highgarden until the Iron Fleet and/or Daenerys have returned.

The Reader thinks it is a bad idea, and Lords Drumm and Goodbrother seem to agree with him in that. Are considering the long-term consequences of attacking the Reach, especially considering what happened the last time they rose up? Euron attacked before Aegon arrived, and had no way of knowing Aegon would come.

Euron already made moves against Oldtown.

true

[PatrickStormborn]

I think that is a stretch. The same could be said for Victarion who hopes to marry Dany. I doubt Euron could rape Dany. The logistics are impossible given she would surrounded by a large army loyal to her. Not even Euron is that dumb.

Okay, it's clear by this point that you're reading my words but you're not actually understanding the points I'm trying to make.

Rape does not have to mean Euron would sneak into Dany's camp and force her to have sex with him... The nightmare connects it to her marriage with Hizdahr, suggesting that the person in the nightmare will similarly be a political alliance, and not one she wants to be with.

Euron most likely sexually assaulted his brothers. I am 100% positive that it will have implications on the story.

Except it isn't explicitly mentioned that what he sees is Euron. He sees the sigil of House Greyjoy, and who is to say Victarion won't lose an eye?

Especially given Barristan compared the Battle of Meereen to the Battle of Redgrass Field where one combatant lost his eye.

Euron isn't seeking after her, Victarion is. Euron decided to stay back home.

That's the point... Why is the vision so clearly pointing to Euron if Victarion is the one seeking her? Because Euron will be important to her future in Westeros.

I'm following Occam's Razor here: the theory that requires the least assumptions is the most likely. Using this Euron fits Moqorro's vision, because it does not rely on assumptions of what may happen in future battles.

How could be allied with him unwillingly? People are described as cold without being touched, such as Tywin. The lips are clearly from drinking shade-of-the-evening. A pale complexion wouldn't be out of place in someplace like the Iron Isles where it storms frequently. Even Oberyn remarks the Westerlands's skies which are in close proximity to the Iron Isles as being "too grey." He is likely leaving the magic to the warlocks, and trying to get what he can out of it without delving into specifics.

How could she ally with him unwillingly? Well, it happens all the time... Robb with the Freys, Dany with Hizdahr, Cersei with the Tyrells, etc. If he finds himself in a position of power over her (more on this later), she may find herself "forced" to ally with him - particularly as Dorne is going to oppose her.

No. Euron's lips are BLUE because of the shade-of-the-evening. But why are they BRUISED?

As for the pale complexion, you're right. But Euron has apparently been sailing around Essos for the past three years...

Tyrion was pretty much dead on the inside after he fled KL. Besides, he could be a dead man walking if Haldon proves to be right that Tyrion could be turning grey from the inside out. It would fit the "grey lips" in the vision. Tyrion lips were bruised from the beating Jorah gave him one time. Tyrion has a bright green eye, and Euron's eyes aren't described as bright either to be fair. Also, this passage: her [Myrcella's] green eyes bright with fever.

Okay, so because Tyrion had bruised lips once, blue lips once, and he was "cold as ice" once, he must be what the vision refers to??

I'm once again going with Occam's Razor: Euron is described as permanently having blue and bruised lips. He's most likely what the vision refers to.

I think physical impediments, being thousands of miles apart makes it unlikely to be Euron. Not to mention, I doubt he will take Oldtown with Sam as a POV there, Sam would be killed or he would be alive with nothing to contribute to the plot post-sack. Also Jaqen's plotline that needs to be revealed.

They're thousands of miles apart right now, but that is obviously going to change considering that Dany is travelling to Westeros.

I never said Euron would take Oldtown immediately - he tried, but it didn't work. I think he will take it eventually.

Except Jon isn't a fake dragon. What do you mean by "fake dragon?" It can't refer to Aegon since he has already been mentioned, and it can't refer to Stannis with a dragon Mel wakened since he also has been already mentioned. Both scenraios would just be redundant when the three visions are supposed to refer to three different things. Also, when the trios of visions, the third vision is always connected to Jon somehow: Rhaegar dying at the Trident saying Lyanna's name, and a blue rose growing in the Wall. Given that, it is not unreasonable to assume it refers to Jon. Dragons refer to Targaryens in visions, and a stone dragon would be a hidden Targaryen given the things hidden connected to stone: Sansa hiding under "Alayne Stone," Rickon hiding on Skagos which means "stone" in the Old Tongue, Arya hiding Needle under a stone on the steps, etc.

What does any of this have to do with what I said?

You asked what I thought the vision could be if I thought it was Euron. I explained my viewpoint: the visions show a fake Azor Ahai, a fake Targaryen, and finally a fake dragon.

You think it's Jon? Fantastic. Maybe it is. But I've explained why I think it may refer to Euron.

Why else would GRRM send the Iron Fleet when Dany needs a fleet if it just going to go back to the Iron Isles after stopping in Meereen? How else is Dany going to get to Westeros? Do you think she would abandon Meereen leaving behind her two children: Rhaegal and Viserion, her freedmen, her army, her friends, etc. That would be a politically and militarily dumb move not to mention it goes against her character. How would she get to Westeros in that scenario? Who is "most of us?"

The Iron Fleet could have a different purpose - to transport Dany's army and dragons to Westeros. But that doesn't mean she will be with them. How else is Dany going to get to Westeros? Well, she's most likely going to take control of all the Dothraki by being named the stallion who mounts the world. That means she first needs to travel to Vaes Dothrak from where she currently is (about halfway between Meereen and Vaes Dothrak based on the official Lands of Ice and Fire maps), and then she needs to wait for all the Dothraki to be summoned from across Essos. That is going to take time. Is Victarion gonna sit around Meereen waiting for her?

The fan-made timelines point towards Dany's final chapter taking place after the Battle of Fire. But even if it does not take place after the battle, Dany will still be travelling to Vaes Dothrak, and she will have to be there long enough for all the Dothraki to arrive. If the Battle of Fire goes wrong (which is very, very likely once the dragonhorn is sounded - and hell, there's a reason GRRM is calling it the battle of FIRE), she would most likely learn of it from the Dothraki.

It would only be "politically and militarily dumb" if Dany's forces were still in Meereen or if she did not send word to them. But with thousands of Dothraki riders at her command, I don't think the latter would be a problem.

There's a reason GRRM has all her Dothraki leave Meereen and sent into the Dothraki Sea.

Perhaps I'm wrong - honestly, I would love to be. Maybe it's as simple as Victarion, Tyrion and Barristan defeating the Yunkai'i, Dany returning after the battle, and all of them sailing back to Westeros. But I just don't see it being that straightforward.

GRRM's recent comments that Tyrion and Dany will "intersect in a way" but will spend "much of the book" apart seems to indicate that they're not going to meet in Meereen.

His role would be over if Sam kills him. It would be a milestone in Sam's arc, and Aegon will have gained Oldtown.

Yes, it would be, and I would consider that awful storytelling.

Instead, consider this: Euron takes Oldtown, Sam is stuck in the city but survives, and suddenly Euron becomes an extremely viable candidate for the throne in his own right.

The Reader thinks it is a bad idea, and Lords Drumm and Goodbrother seem to agree with him in that. Are considering the long-term consequences of attacking the Reach, especially considering what happened the last time they rose up? Euron attacked before Aegon arrived, and had no way of knowing Aegon would come.

Why would Aegon rush to defend the Reach - particularly Oldtown? He's currently in the Stormlands. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", remember? If Oldtown falls, it actually works in Aegon's favour.

The way I see it, the Lannister and the Tyrells will find their forces divided: Aegon is conquering in the Stormlands and could continue moving west, whilst Euron is conquering/sacking in the Reach and could continue marching east.

Again, I think you're focusing way too much on Aegon, which is severely missing the point. This upcoming war may be a second dance of the dragons, but most importantly it's also a second war of five kings, but on a much larger scale: Stannis still stands, Euron has replaced Balon, Tommen has replaced Joffrey, Aegon has replaced Robb, and Daenerys is finally launching her invasion.

[Mithras]

Why would Aegon rush to defend the Reach - particularly Oldtown? He's currently in the Stormlands. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", remember? If Oldtown falls, it actually works in Aegon's favour.

“If Bolton means to fight the ironmen, so must you."

[Mithras]

Perhaps I'm wrong - honestly, I would love to be. Maybe it's as simple as Victarion, Tyrion and Barristan defeating the Yunkai'i, Dany returning after the battle, and all of them sailing back to Westeros. But I just don't see it being that straightforward.

GRRM's recent comments that Tyrion and Dany will "intersect in a way" but will spend "much of the book" apart seems to indicate that they're not going to meet in Meereen.

Not necessarily. Occam's Razor dictates that Barristan-Tyrion-Victarion will be stuck in the SB and deal with the pressing problems while Dany is playing the Stallion and uniting the Dothraki. Those problems in the SB (the Meereenese Knot) have to be solved in order to tell a meaningful story. Tyrion and Vicky need a lot of chapters to solve the Meereenese Knot. Of nearly 30 Dany-Vicky-Tyrion-Barry chapters in TWoW, 15-20 of them might pass without Dany meeting the other POVs. And after that, she might gain enough control over Drogon to steer him to Meereen and/or find an opportunity to come meet Tyrion. Then she can return to the Dothraki. This way, Tyrion and Dany remain seperated for most of the story.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

Yes, it would be, and I would consider that awful storytelling.

Instead, consider this: Euron takes Oldtown, Sam is stuck in the city but survives, and suddenly Euron becomes an extremely viable candidate for the throne in his own right.

so agreed on this. Sam Slayer of Euron becomes a believability-atomising serial joke. Sam as pair of eyes in vicinity of victorious supernatural Iron King, much as I may have loathed his self-pitying viewpoint so far, has a certain evident literary function

[Mithras]

so agreed on this. Sam Slayer of Euron becomes a believability-atomising serial joke.

same as Sam slaying an Other with an obsidian dagger or burning a wight. Shitty storytelling.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

well, yeah, personally I thought even once was a bit of a stretch. And as a trope...? I can't see why even Sam fans (incomprehensible, hobbit-fancying creatures that they are) would want the character to become a running gag...

[PatrickStormborn]

Sam killed one Other, and it was a great moment in the books.

Having him kill a contender for the Iron Throne and potentially one of the most dangerous men in Westeros - before the character has even done anything significant? Bad storytelling.

Note: I'm not ruling out Sam killing Euron. I'm specifically ruling out Sam killing Euron before Euron has actually had a significant impact on the narrative.

“If Bolton means to fight the ironmen, so must you."

I can't imagine Jon Connington or anyone in the Golden Company giving Aegon that kind of advice. They're too shrewd. Most likely, they will see the political benefit of not assisting the Reach: the Lannisters and the Tyrells lose more territory and find their armies spread even more thinly.

Not necessarily. Occam's Razor dictates that Barristan-Tyrion-Victarion will be stuck in the SB and deal with the pressing problems while Dany is playing the Stallion and uniting the Dothraki. Those problems in the SB (the Meereenese Knot) have to be solved in order to tell a meaningful story. Tyrion and Vicky need a lot of chapters to solve the Meereenese Knot. Of nearly 30 Dany-Vicky-Tyrion-Barry chapters in TWoW, 15-20 of them might pass without Dany meeting the other POVs. And after that, she might gain enough control over Drogon to steer him to Meereen and/or find an opportunity to come meet Tyrion. Then she can return to the Dothraki. This way, Tyrion and Dany remain seperated for most of the story.

I'm sorry but that is a lot of assumptions too - you're assuming how many chapters there may be, that all three will survive, that Dany has no control over Drogon (contradicted by her final chapter where he follows her orders and shares his meal with her - prior to that, she only eats his leftovers), and that the battle will be straightforward.

The Meereenese knot is only the order at which everyone is in Meereen: the pale mare, Quentyn, Victarion, Tyrion, and most importantly Daenerys. The knot cannot be "solved" within the story because it does not exist within the story.

With every character insisting that Dany is going to return to Meereen (even some who have no reason to believe that), I think it's very unlikely to happen.

[Mithras]

Sam killed one Other, and it was a great moment in the books.

Having him kill a contender for the Iron Throne and potentially one of the most dangerous men in Westeros - before the character has even done anything significant? Bad storytelling.

Note: I'm not ruling out Sam killing Euron. I'm specifically ruling out Sam killing Euron before Euron has actually had a significant impact on the narrative.

You are exaggerating Euron too much. Remember he fled like a dog after The Reader questioned his tales of going to Valyria, and the Reader is only a single man.

You are also wrong about that Euron didnot do anything significant so far. What about sending Victarion-dragonhorn and the Iron Fleet to SB? What about working to destroy the Lannister-Tyrell alliance prematurely, which might have serious consequences from the Vale to the North and Riverlands and also to the Reach? I think these are major contributions to the story.

I can't imagine Jon Connington or anyone in the Golden Company giving Aegon that kind of advice. They're too shrewd. Most likely, they will see the political benefit of not assisting the Reach: the Lannisters and the Tyrells lose more territory and find their armies spread even more thinly.

It is a good advice. Instead of letting Euron destroy Oldtown and Arbor, Team fAegon should better aid them against the ironborn whereas the boy king and the Tyrells are not able to help their bannermen and defend the Faith. What better way to gain the swords of Hightowers and Redwynes? fAegon is looking for allies in Westeros. Letting Euron destroy possible allies is a folly from political perspective and Varys would never allow that.

I'm sorry but that is a lot of assumptions too - you're assuming how many chapters there may be, that all three will survive, that Dany has no control over Drogon (contradicted by her final chapter where he follows her orders and shares his meal with her - prior to that, she only eats his leftovers), and that the battle will be straightforward.

The assumption you make is that Dany has 100% control over Drogon, which is clearly not the case. Barristan will survive for two chapters but I don't think he will get another one.

The Meereenese knot is only the order at which everyone is in Meereen: the pale mare, Quentyn, Victarion, Tyrion, and most importantly Daenerys. The knot cannot be "solved" within the story because it does not exist within the story.

With every character insisting that Dany is going to return to Meereen (even some who have no reason to believe that), I think it's very unlikely to happen.

You are evading my point. Surely, the arrival of these characers should contribute to end the story arcs in SB that have been going on from ASOS. Without tying the loose ends, the arrival of the characters to Westeros is called bad writing. One way or the other, there should not be any loose ends in the SB once they left for Westeros.

well, yeah, personally I thought even once was a bit of a stretch. And as a trope...? I can't see why even Sam fans (incomprehensible, hobbit-fancying creatures that they are) would want the character to become a running gag...

Forgot to mention:

The monarchs and great lords in the series die perfect deaths in the series.

Such as

Ned being beheaded with his ancestral family blade unjustly

Aerys losing the control of his bowels before his KG opens his throat

Tywin being shot in the bowels and shitting abominably

Robert getting torn apart by a boar

Balon being blown from the bridge as an act of kin(g)slaying and turning into a pulp of meat that fed the crabs

Robb being betrayed at a wedding and getting a direwolf head implantation

Renly being killed by a shadow assassin at the eve of victory

Joffrey biting the dust at his own wedding

Therefore, Euron being killed by a "fat craven" who is one of the major character in the series since from the first book would look like a total failure from George's side.

[Game Of Thrones]

Pyat is with Euron. Why would GRRM put Pyat with Euron unless Euron will fight Dany?

[Mithras]

Pyat is with Euron. Why would GRRM put Pyat with Euron unless Euron will fight Dany?

To be able to

1. possibly kill Balon with air magic

2. summon winds to take the Shields

3. give Euron a dragonhorn