So how many people think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Aye. Also, remember that Lyanna was still alive at the time of Maggy's prophecy, and Rhaegar was still single and not betrothed.

Cersei, according to herself, was going to be Rhaegar's Queen. But that didn't happen. Not only he married Elia but later, ran away with another woman. Have you read my post about how Tywin tried to pimp Cersei for Rhaegar? (it's somewhere hidden in some RLJ thread). It's curious, to me, that Kevan mentioned that Cersei could have given Rhaegar all the children he wanted. It sounds like it was Tyrion's plan, after they found out that Elia was weak to have any more kids, to "tempt" Rhaegar with Cersei or wait she could die. Maybe Tywin's orders to Pycelle were "tell Rhaegar his wife can bear more children so he would choose a new wife". Of course, this ended up in disaster as Rhaegar left with Lyanna.

And then, once Cersei thought herself free from Lyanna Stark, Robert mentions her again, making her bitter and starting her own path to doom.

It's all Lyanna's fault, in a way.

I haven't found it but I would most deffinatelly loved to read it.

No! It was Ashara's fault, I don't know how but it was. Around here when something has anything to do with sex Ashara is somehow involved.

LIST of Queens or Princesses that could take the place of Cersei

Asha/Osha Greyjoy

Arianne Martell

Val the Wildling Princess AND Jon's Queen Consort :D

Sansa Stark

Arya Stark

Daenerys Targaryen

Margaery Tyrell

THANK YOU! I added a small *detail*, I hope that is ok with you.

[Grail King]

I have posited that this is why Cersei hated the Starks (all of them) with so much bitterness.

Mayhaps Lyanna was that younger and more beautiful foe, for making Cersei second-rate in the eyes of her mate (twice).

Mayhaps the reincaration of Lyanna - still younger and more beautiful - will be the valonquar that finally wraps her hands around Cersei's throat and squeezes the life out of her.

Valar morghulis.

I can also get behind this and JCRB statement.

[larastone]

damn so not many people actually think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen huh?? personally....Dany being the younger more beautiful queen is something I take as granted as R+L=J.

[Pod The Impaler]

damn so not many people actually think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen huh?? personally....Dany being the younger more beautiful queen is something I take as granted as R+L=J.

More like the most likely by a plurality. Let me see if I can find that thread where we laid odds on each potential candidate.

EDIT:

OK here it is, I think ...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/93920-compiling-the-younger-more-beautiful-queens/?hl=%20younger%20%20more%20%20beautiful

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

I think Sansa, just because she's got a personal backstory with Cersei. It seems fitting that it'll be her.

I agree.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

damn so not many people actually think Dany is the younger more beautiful queen huh?? personally....Dany being the younger more beautiful queen is something I take as granted as R+L=J.

It's not like we don't believe it, it's that it seems a bit obvious:

She's young

She's beautiful

She's a Queen.

Now, we don't even know if the prophecy states that this girl is actually a Queen, as it just says "until another one", not "another Queen". So, we only know she's young and pretty. Age is a constant: you're either younger or older than another person (or the same age), but being beautiful is relative, and Cersei is now losing her beauty.

With that in mind, maybe the "another one" is Jaime. It fits. He's younger and while people say he's identical to Cersei (hence, beautiful), he's on the road to become a better person. Also, he's not ageing as badly as Cersei is.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

She started to lose everything the moment she decided to fulfil the prophecy and giving Robert bastards instead of legitimate children.

That happened after Robert said "Lyanna".

Lyanna was a Queen. Queen of Love and Beauty.

Actually I thought about this! Good to know there is someone else who had a similiar idea.

And yes, I'm against it being Dany because they have no history and it would feel kinda... cheesy.

Edit: But yes pretty much everyone who is young and beautiful is a probability (because there is no mention of an another queen in the prophecy)

Brienne The Beauty?

Loras?

Jaime?

[aryagonnakill#2]

JonCon's red beard, you mention several times that you think it is Lyanna and you say this is because it was actually Lyanna that took everything from her and I have several problems with that theory. First is that Cersei banged Jaime on her wedding night, she was never going to have a good relationship with Robert. Second is that if we are going to get figurative with the prophecy in the way you are then we could just as easily say Elia caused all her problems. Either way the point is mute, was Cersei has always wanted is power, that is made clear by her AFFC arc, so the person who casts her down is going to take her power.

[Cthulhu the Drowned God]

I think it'll be Sansa; she fits all the criteria (okay, she's not a queen yet, but Littlefinger seems to have plans to make her one) and what with their history, it would be very dramatically satisfying to see her overthrow Cersei.

Besides, Dany will be too busy fulfilling her other 5000 prophecies to have any time for this one.

[Rhaenys' kitten]

It could be An Other, younger and more beautiful.

[larastone]

It's not like we don't believe it, it's that it seems a bit obvious:

She's young

She's beautiful

She's a Queen.

Now, we don't even know if the prophecy states that this girl is actually a Queen, as it just says "until another one", not "another Queen". So, we only know she's young and pretty. Age is a constant: you're either younger or older than another person (or the same age), but being beautiful is relative, and Cersei is now losing her beauty.

With that in mind, maybe the "another one" is Jaime. It fits. He's younger and while people say he's identical to Cersei (hence, beautiful), he's on the road to become a better person. Also, he's not ageing as badly as Cersei is.

I just think people are reaching when they say it's not an actual queen. The sentence is..."queen you shall be, until comes another younger and more beautiful to take all that you hold dear".....and then since people want one of their favorite characters to take Cersei down, they'll say that since Maggy didn't say "another queen" it doesn't have to be an actual queen.

While the most probable thing probably is that "queen you shall be, until comes another queen, younger and more beautiful to take all that you hold dear".....doesn't flow off the tongue as better as ..."queen you shall be, until comes another younger and more beautiful to take all that you hold dear" and thats probably why GRRM wrote it that way lol

and i feel like it doesn't really matter if dany being the younger more beautiful queen is obvious to readers, it certainly WON'T be obvious to cersei and thats what matters

[TheMysteriousOne]

I used to think that Sansa would be the younger queen, through possibly becoming a Queen of Love and Beauty at a tourney for her engagement to Harry the Heir in the near feature. Then, I realized that the younger woman does not necessarily need to be a queen, and now I think that it might be Brienne.

[Tynned Lannistark]

It's not like we don't believe it, it's that it seems a bit obvious:

She's young

She's beautiful

She's a Queen.

Exactly. And we all know that GRRM rarely chooses the obvious option.

The question is it how obvious it really is and is it really something that comes up as easily in the first read without investing into reading theories all over the web.

For example R+L=J is pretty obvious to us now, but I don't think its that obvious from the books. Though I tend to think Dany as the queen is much easier....

[JonCon's Red Beard]

JonCon's red beard, you mention several times that you think it is Lyanna and you say this is because it was actually Lyanna that took everything from her and I have several problems with that theory. First is that Cersei banged Jaime on her wedding night, she was never going to have a good relationship with Robert. Second is that if we are going to get figurative with the prophecy in the way you are then we could just as easily say Elia caused all her problems. Either way the point is mute, was Cersei has always wanted is power, that is made clear by her AFFC arc, so the person who casts her down is going to take her power.

The kind of power Cersei wanted she only could get it via a King. That's what Maggy tells her: You will marry the King. She believes she will be Rhaegar's Queen, and she wasn't. Then, she marries another King but she never actually held power: the power of a Queen comes from being the mother of the heirs. The whole point of the Wot5K is that she isn't the mother of the heirs. And that happened because Cersei DECIDED to not giving him children, after Robert mentioned Lyanna's name.

Another point for me to consider Lyanna being the Queen is that it was in the Tourney of Harrenhall that everything went to the crapper for Cersei:

You mention that she still banged Jaime the morning of her wedding? Yes. She also was making plans for Jaime to be sent to KL as a kingsguard. What was Cersei doing in KL? Tywin was waiting for either Viserys getting older or Rhaegar being a widow. So, Cersei was going to be a princess (and even a Queen) but she wasn't very likely to let Jaime go. Because having Jaime is also a way to show power. The power she has OVER Jaime.

And what happened in HH? Jaime is named KG. But, that caused Tywin to resign and take Cersei with him back to CR. They didn't attend the Tourney, a Tourney that was organized by Rhaegar and he chose Lyanna there. Any hope for Cersei to be Rhaegar's "second wife" or Viserys' princess died there, as Tywin was offended and left Aerys for good.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

I suppose Cersei believes the "other" is a Queen, otherwise, Sansa would be dead by now. Sansa was definitely a potential candidate: younger and more beautiful. But she wasn't a Queen as she wasn't going to be Joffrey's wife in a long time.

I agree. I believe wholeheartedly that Cersei originally thought Sansa was going to be the younger, more beautiful queen when she was betrothed to Joffrey and before Margaery came into the picture.

[larastone]

I agree. I believe wholeheartedly that Cersei originally thought Sansa was going to be the younger, more beautiful queen when she was betrothed to Joffrey and before Margaery came into the picture.

yep, I don't think that's the main reason why Cersei hated Sansa, nor do I believe she was as paranoid about Sansa as she is about Margaery but I'm 100% sure Cersei had some suspicion that Sansa was the younger more beautiful queen which kicks sansa off the list for potential candidates imo.

Plus Dany is a queen in her OWN RIGHT, which is what Cersei has always wanted. so that would also make it very powerful.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I haven't found it but I would most deffinatelly loved to read it.

No! It was Ashara's fault, I don't know how but it was. Around here when something has anything to do with sex Ashara is somehow involved.

Of course. It's scarcely known that all Cersei wanted in life was to dance with Brandon Stark...

(I can't find it either. After I update the thread about Doran "knowing", I may open a new one).

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Of course. It's scarcely known that all Cersei wanted in life was to dance with Brandon Stark...

(I can't find it either. After I update the thread about Doran "knowing", I may open a new one).

That would be great!

:bang: I was uses to your av changing hairstyle and hair color but now with the little blonde kid (?) that appears I thought that it was something wrong with my eyes. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Chebyshov]

yep, I don't think that's the main reason why Cersei hated Sansa, nor do I believe she was as paranoid about Sansa as she is about Margaery but I'm 100% sure Cersei had some suspicion that Sansa was the younger more beautiful queen which kicks sansa off the list for potential candidates imo.

Plus Dany is a queen in her OWN RIGHT, which is what Cersei has always wanted. so that would also make it very powerful.

I dunno, Cersei seldom thinks of Sansa in her chapters, except in the context of "well she probably helped Tyrion kill my son" and "how dare she betray me when I showed her kindness." I think Sansa's face in her WoS crowd is very poignant, especially next to Ned and her wolf's, showing her past wrongs and how that might catch-up to her.

But I do see what you're saying about thinking the YMBQ being a completely unknown factor to Cersei. Here she is all paranoid about Marg, but really it's the foreign threat she never saw coming.

Still, in terms of narrative, I think Sansa is a better fit, but that's just me. I'm not opposed to the idea of it being Dany, but that personal element would be lacking.

[larastone]

I dunno, Cersei seldom thinks of Sansa in her chapters, except in the context of "well she probably helped Tyrion kill my son" and "how dare she betray me when I showed her kindness." I think Sansa's face in her WoS crowd is very poignant, especially next to Ned and her wolf's, showing her past wrongs and how that might catch-up to her.

But I do see what you're saying about thinking the YMBQ being a completely unknown factor to Cersei. Here she is all paranoid about Marg, but really it's the foreign threat she never saw coming.

Still, in terms of narrative, I think Sansa is a better fit, but that's just me. I'm not opposed to the idea of it being Dany, but that personal element would be lacking.

well I don't need there to be a personal element to it because i don't think it matters who the younger more beautiful queen is anyways. like i dont think there's going to be a dany vs cersei showdown. the point is that by the time dany reaches close to cersei, dany won't even have to do much to take everything cersei holds dear because cersei would have already destroyed herself so much. dany isn't literally going to take away everything cersei holds dear because cersei has and will do a pretty good job of destroying herself.