PatrickStormborn Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 If you're going by physical beauty, how do you decide who's the most beautiful? Between Cersei, Sansa, Margery, Dany, who decides who's more beautiful, wouldn't it be very subjective depending on your ideas and preferences for beauty? That's the biggest reason I think it's Brienne, almost everyone would agree she has a more beautiful soul than Cersei by miles. Cersei thinks Rhaegar made Jaime look like a stable boy because of his Valyrian heritage. What will she think when she sees Rhaegar's sister? Forgive me because I've only read once, but isn't it the younger more beautiful queen that takes everything from Cersei? We have Margery who has taken Tommen, and arguably Joffrey away. We have Sansa, who is ultimately the cause of other things being taken from Cersei, although it is always for Sansa's benefit rather than Sansa's actions herself (Littlefinger killing Joffrey if that is the truth, Brienne making Jaime value his honor over Cersei). She also has as much motivation, if not more, than anyone to see Cersei destroyed. And we have Dany, who at present has at best questionable motivation, and the timing is highly suspect. No, because in that case you'd have to include the other things Cersei held dear, like Joanna and Tywin. The younger queen will take all that Cersei holds dear when she replaces her - that's what the prophecy is actually about. Cersei asks if she will be queen, and Maggy tells her that she will be queen until another one comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Yea, that's what I think. Her whole story line is a completely miss leading. a) GRRM put thanks to someone for having him add in live dragons into the story, in one of the books. b] He has long said that he knew where he was starting and knows how it will end, even before he started writing it, it is the path to get there he doesn't know. IF A & B are true, then there is no way/ no how that C) dragons fit into the outcome of the final book. I also think that Stannis is The Younger Brother and Cersei will be the cause of Tommen's death. but those are for different OP's> sorry about stupid smiley faces, didn't think that part thru.Eh, he might have been undecided about adding the dragons, but the Targaryen's were always part of the story. "The main question was the dragons: Do I include dragons? I knew I wanted to have the Targaryens have their symbol be the dragons; the Lannisters have the lions, the Starks have the wolves. Should these things be literal here? Should the Targaryens actually have dragons? I was discussing this with a friend, writer Phyllis Eisenstein - I dedicated the third book to her - and she said, "George, it's a fantasy - you've got to put in the dragons." She convinced me, and it was the right decision. Now that I'm deep into it, I can't imagine the book without the dragons."https://uk.tv.yahoo.com/george-r-r-martin-almost-left-dragons-game-102300356.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I'm trying to recall. Has Dany ever featured in Cersei's thoughts, or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkorenberg1 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think there will be multiple queens before Dany is in power. I suspect Aagon will come into power and marry Arrianne (who will be the next queen since Dorne will help Aagon and co. win the throne). They may be the ones who kill King Tommen and later Marcella. I don't think Cersei will die until Twow or DOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I'm trying to recall. Has Dany ever featured in Cersei's thoughts, or vice versa? We only have this: “Do you have any news of more import?” “The slave revolt in Astapor has spread to Meereen, it would seem. Sailors off a dozen ships speak of dragons . . .” “Harpies. It is harpies in Meereen.” She remembered that from somewhere. Meereen was at the far end of the world, out east beyond Valyria. “Let the slaves revolt. Why should I care? We keep no slaves in Westeros. Is that all you have for me?” But as of the Epilogue of ADwD, The Small Council all hears that Dany is doing something in SB and they suspect that she might come to Westeros in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well I don't see dany as a red herring because I feel like it doesn't matter if the prophecy is predictable to readers. Cersei will definitely be blindsided by it and that's what matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I agree with this. Dany is like a "good queen" version of Cersei. And GRRM has said Dany and Cersei are parallels of each other. Cersei was also a parallel for Catelyn as two examples of mothers with sons who were kings. Martin likes stories within stories. That is not enough of a reason to say one will replace the other. As to those who say the dragons were meant to be a red herring, I'd say they will probably not play a role in who sits on the throne but they will definitely have other roles to play. The book has offered too many ways to destroy them plus, Martin has said (I think!!) that magic will be gone by the end of the series and the seasons will be normal. That means no dragons, right? So no, I don't think Dany is the younger queen. Not sure it's Sansa either, though. I'd say it's Marge or Lyanna. After all, these queens have arguably already taken all that she holds dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't know why people think it'll be a queen, when Maggy does not mention the word. All she says "younger and more beautiful", and no Queen at the end of that quote. I think that person is Sansa, from the very moment I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't know why people think it'll be a queen, when Maggy does not mention the word. All she says "younger and more beautiful", and no Queen at the end of that quote. I think that person is Sansa, from the very moment I read it. Except that Sansa hasn't taken anything from her and all that would be left, at this stage of the story, is the throne itself. Tommen is Marge's Jaime is Brienne's and Myrcella won't be taken by Sansa either. All Sansa could take was the throne and while Cersei lives for power, the wording of the prophecy really implies taking many things Cersei holds dear. Marge has taken Joffrey, Tommen AND the title of Queen at this point. Lyanna took Rhaegar and Robert. What has Sansa taken? What's left for her to take? And of course, the same applies to Dany. What's really left for her to take besides the throne? Again, I don't want to say the throne is not important to Cersei but it is not all that she holds dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't know why people think it'll be a queen, when Maggy does not mention the word. All she says "younger and more beautiful", and no Queen at the end of that quote. I think that person is Sansa, from the very moment I read it. That's true enough, she does not say "a queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful queen". Just like, when asked "Will the king and I have children?", she will say "Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you". Not, mind you, "Six-and-ten children for him, and three children for you." She doesn't repeat the same noun over and over again, so it doesn't necessarily have to be about kids, does it? I'm no less curious about the fans' theories about those sixteen and three somethings and what they might be, than about the another-younger-and-more-beautiful-no-fucking-idea-what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 So no, I don't think Dany is the younger queen. Not sure it's Sansa either, though. I'd say it's Marge or Lyanna. After all, these queens have arguably already taken all that she holds dear. It doesn't really work for Lyanna. "A queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful". Chronology. First Cersei is queen, and then another one comes to yadda yadda yadda. Whatever Lyanna ever did, it all happened before Cersei got her crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 It's definitely Dany, which is important because Cersei would be more prepared to defeat Dany had she not alienated the Tyrells because of her paranoia that Margaery fulfilled the prophecy. Power. But it's actually essential that Cersei has very little left to lose. She spent her time trying to fight the prophecy, but in the process she lost everything she truly held dear, and now Dany will actually have very little to take. Just seeing this. I agree. Somewhat. There have been a few threads that the younger queen is Cersei herself which is the real answer to this. Cersei has worked against herself as a result of these other "queens" from the very beginning. There isn't much left for anyone to take from Cersei. But I don't think Dany will take the throne from Cersei so I don't think she will be the final "queen" to take all that Cersei holds dear. It doesn't really work for Lyanna. "A queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful". Chronology. First Cersei is queen, and then another one comes to yadda yadda yadda. Whatever Lyanna ever did, it all happened before Cersei got her crown. Or it means she'll be queen until someone comes to take it away. It doesn't have to be chronological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 “Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.”Anger flashed across the child’s face. “If she tries I will have my brother kill her.” “I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” To the surprise of Cersei, Jaime will not kill Sansa as she orders, just like he didnot kill Tywin as Aerys had ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 BTW, from what I take about the prophecies, Maggy's prophecy should also be a self-fulfilling one. So, Cersei should do something to avert the prophecy and the result of her actions should lead to the very fulfillment of that prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 “Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.” Anger flashed across the child’s face. “If she tries I will have my brother kill her.” “I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” To the surprise of Cersei, Jaime will not kill Sansa as she orders, just like he didnot kill Tywin as Aerys had ordered. well the TV show already let that go as Jaime did not kill Sansa like Cersei ordered lol. no but seriously, I think that part of Cersei asking Maggy is just another reference to Cersei thinking of Jaime as her protector...which is ironic because he's going to end up killing her. I don't think Sansa will ever come back to KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 well the TV show already let that go as Jaime did not kill Sansa like Cersei ordered lol. no but seriously, I think that part of Cersei asking Maggy is just another reference to Cersei thinking of Jaime as her protector...which is ironic because he's going to end up killing her. I don't think Sansa will ever come back to KL. That we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think the younger, more beautiful queen is whoever Cersei believes it is, and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, when in fact another queen is the true threat. By that I mean Cersei is confident that it's Margaery, when the real danger to her power is somelike like Dany, Arianne, Sansa, perhaps even Brienne (she's not beautiful, but has beautiful traits) - perhaps the thing that will be taken from her is Jaime, which does point to Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think the younger, more beautiful queen is whoever Cersei believes it is, and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, when in fact another queen is the true threat. By that I mean Cersei is confident that it's Margaery, when the real danger to her power is somelike like Dany, Arianne, Sansa, perhaps even Brienne (she's not beautiful, but has beautiful traits) - perhaps the thing that will be taken from her is Jaime, which does point to Brienne. Jaime is not everything Cersei holds dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 It's definitely Dany. Not everything is complicated... Cersei thinks Rhaegar made Jaime look like a stable boy because of his Valyrian heritage. What will she think when she sees Rhaegar's sister? This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 It's definitely Dany. Not everything is complicated... This. yes, glad to have one more follower on the dany is the YMBQ theory train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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