Would You Die For Your Country

[Wade1865]

You're not making a lot of sense here wade .... seems to me that the person with the most power in war are the politicians/business who sent people like you to war.

Power (the gross measure of physical, economic, and political strength) is an absolutely fascinating subject -- thanks for participating.

Keep in mind that power is relative. To keep this simple, let's use chess pieces to represent (only the political aspect of) power. In the grand scheme of things, I would rate no more than a BISHOP; i.e., a Captain of Motorized Infantry in Command. Given that political power grows out of the barrel of the gun, however, the power that BISHOPS wielded on the ground was relatively substantial considering our sphere of influence under (counterinsurgency) wartime conditions, which included the control of civil institutions like the transportation, power, and water grids; the exercise of persuasion, influence, coercion, and killing; the right to detain, interrogate, and seize local national civilians and structures; and -- sweetest of all, in my experience -- the employment of hundreds of reconciled insurgents to perform as proxy fighters against the AQI cadres that they had turned against. KINGS dictate policy as a reflection of their supreme authority granted by the US population; Soldiers, on the other hand, exercised the more limited power to take another man's life.

PAWNS: Private Soldiers (in all positions)

KNIGHTS: Non-comissioned Officers (in all positions)

BISHOPS: Captains (in command)

ROOKS: Colonels (in command)

QUEEN: Generals (in command)

KING: Politicians (Presidents, Congressmen, etc.)

(power is such an odd and surprising thing, though -- at best, it (i.e., physical, economical, and political strength) is only a stepping-stone toward the maximization of time and the realization of self-actualization)

[Wise Fool]

lol what? Why would a knight be a NCO and a bishop a captain? They have the same value.

All the soldiers are pawns. The rest are the ones that matter. Ultimately, of course, the king is the only piece that matters a damn, but that only reflects that chess is a representation of classical political power and the king is the representation of a head of state or government, so it's self-serving. As is your own interpretation of your own importance, come to that.

And "realization of self-actualization," really? New age mumbo jumbo, that.

[Wade1865]

lol what? Why would a knight be a NCO and a bishop a captain? They have the same value.

All the soldiers are pawns. The rest are the ones that matter. Ultimately, of course, the king is the only piece that matters a damn, but that only reflects that chess is a representation of classical political power and the king is the representation of a head of state or government, so it's self-serving. As is your own interpretation of your own importance, come to that.

And "realization of self-actualization," really? New age mumbo jumbo, that.

You're right -- the pieces do share the same value, but exercise different roles. Although NCOs participate at every level, NCOs and CPTs in command are most complementary at the company level.

Hahahaha -- yes, I will admit I have an over-developed sense of self-importance. Thanks for recognizing that.

[DanteGabriel]

The politicians may be the King, but moneyed interests are the player. Our political class are just errand boys (and girls) for corporate and industrial interests.

[Wade1865]

The politicians may be the King, but moneyed interests are the player. Our political class are just errand boys (and girls) for corporate and industrial interests.

The PLAYER -- a very astute understanding of the balance of power and a point that made this entire thread personally worthwhile! Political strength is important, but economic strength is more so -- you're right for now, until conditions again shift and the Soldier or Sage resumes primacy. As the Merchant becomes increasingly vilified (and marginalized?), which group will rise? I wonder.

PAWNS

KNIGHTS

BISHOPS

ROOKS

QUEEN

KING

PLAYER

I recognize the temporary and limited value of political strength today (particularly under, and subject to, wartime conditions that will always eventually end) and have since refocused toward improving my economic position by way of stocks (2008; BP; and BAC) and real estate (FLA). After seven years of body-breaking, soul-crushing, active effort; I've only just last year joined the American 10% (hahahaha) -- as opposed to the personally unreachable 1%. The game is worth playing -- the game is exciting!

:)

[Wee baby Shamus]

KNIGHTS lead the way!!!

[Wade1865]

KNIGHTS lead the way!!!

The Backbone!

:cheers:

[peterbound]

Wait.. I thought Rangers lead the way.

[Lord Flashheart]

Wait...I thought Marines lead the way.

[Lady Olenna]

Wouldn't die for any country.

Would die for the human race under some conditions.

Just curious what constitutes the human race (isn't the country you reside in inclusive of humans?) and what conditions would cause you to sacrifice your own life?

@Wade1865

What is a (genuine) combat veteran?

[The Notorious]

an alien invasion or zombie apocalypse are likely scenario

[Wade1865]

Just curious what constitutes the human race (isn't the country you reside in inclusive of humans?) and what conditions would cause you to sacrifice your own life?

@Wade1865

What is a (genuine) combat veteran?

Lady Olenna -- a veteran who engaged in actual combat. Not all veterans are combat veterans.

[peterbound]

Lady Olenna -- a veteran who engaged in actual combat. Not all veterans are combat veterans.

Even this is debatable. I've seen plenty of army choades with a CAB claim 'combat' status, but have just been in proximity of attacks (and don't get me wrong, that's not fun), but most dudes kicking down doors wouldn't really consider them 'combat' vets.

It's a funny term, and one used with a lot of flexibility. Hell, I'm sitting next to a guy right now on the Truck that was a Crew Chief at the JBB and never even left the Camp that has an awesome 'Combat Vet' license plate frame. Got a CAB and everything. His claim to fame? Being on the base (which isn't small) during a mortar attack. He'll even tell you that he was playing the Xbox when it happened. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in it. The people that use it are really trying hard to look 'hard', which I think might be the case for Capt Wade here. The need to add some sort of describer is attempt to separate himself from the mass of humanity that is the US Army.

[Wade1865]

Online pissing contest? That's not pathetic in any way.

No -- not at all. We are not actually in conflict as far as I can tell. I'm just curious about his combat experiences so that I can adequately weight his opinion.

I feel no hostility toward him.

[The Notorious]

yup ..... i hold some bac also, but most of my gains were in biotechs.

[Wade1865]

Marine Corps Rules:
1. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
2. Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.
3. Have a plan.
4. Have a back-up plan, because the first one probably won't work.
5. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet ­ even your friends…
6. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a "4."
7. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral & diagonal preferred.)
9. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
13. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.

US Army Rules:
1. Curse bitterly when receiving operational order.
2. Make sure there is extra ammo and extra coffee.
3. Curse bitterly.
4. Curse bitterly.
5. Do not listen to 2nd LT's; it can get you killed.
6. Curse bitterly.

US Air Force Rules:
1. Have a cocktail.
2. Adjust temperature on air-conditioner.
3. See what's on HBO.
4. Ask "what is a gunfight?"
5. Request more funding from Congress with a "killer" Power Point presentation.
6. Wine & dine 'key' Congressmen, invite DOD & defense industry executives.
7. Receive funding, set up new command and assemble assets.
8. Declare the assets "strategic" and never deploy them operationally.
9. Hurry to make 13:45 tee-time.
10. Make sure the base is as far as possible from the conflict but close enough to have tax exemption.

US Navy Rules:
1. Go to Sea.
2. Drink Coffee.
3. Deploy Marines.

[Wee baby Shamus]

Since Peter and Wade seem to have a different definition of what is a "combat" vet I will give mine.

Basically it's simple. If you deployed to a combat zone and are authorized to wear a combat patch then you are a combat vet.

The reason I go with this definition is because now a days there is no true front line. Anyone in any MOS can engage in combat. Whether it's gunfire, mortar attacks, or IEDs.

Remember Peter and Wade only 1% of Americans have served.

[Wade1865]

Since Peter and Wade seem to have a different definition of what is a "combat" vet I will give mine.

Basically it's simple. If you deployed to a combat zone and are authorized to wear a combat patch then you are a combat vet.

The reason I go with this definition is because now a days there is no true front line. Anyone in any MOS can engage in combat. Whether it's gunfire, mortar attacks, or IEDs.

Remember Peter and Wade only 1% of Americans have served.

It was great while it lasted -- and yes, there was no front line while I was there, IRQ and AFG. The pendulum swings, again and again.

[Lady Olenna]

Lady Olenna -- a veteran who engaged in actual combat. Not all veterans are combat veterans.

Even this is debatable. I've seen plenty of army choades with a CAB claim 'combat' status, but have just been in proximity of attacks (and don't get me wrong, that's not fun), but most dudes kicking down doors wouldn't really consider them 'combat' vets.

It's a funny term, and one used with a lot of flexibility. Hell, I'm sitting next to a guy right now on the Truck that was a Crew Chief at the JBB and never even left the Camp that has an awesome 'Combat Vet' license plate frame. Got a CAB and everything. His claim to fame? Being on the base (which isn't small) during a mortar attack. He'll even tell you that he was playing the Xbox when it happened. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in it. The people that use it are really trying hard to look 'hard', which I think might be the case for Capt Wade here. The need to add some sort of describer is attempt to separate himself from the mass of humanity that is the US Army.

It's funny how all infantry/combat vets look at situations so differently.

I'm still baffled at how people that have served but never deployed (or never left the FOB, did Intel - basically never saw combat) are getting like 100% disability from the VA. I'd love to know how they are able to work the system that well.

On Topic: for me the issue is freedom. I would fight for (and most likely die) to protect this country's freedom. I can not say that I agree with the politics behind the most recent wars, but I would not hesitate if ever a war came here.

And although this particular part of the board is highly "progressive" I'm going to quote Reagan and risk getting flamed because I believe in what he said:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

I love the fact that I can vote, I can own a gun, I can verbalize my thoughts and opinions without persecution and I can pray to any God or no God or many and I can not be denied that right.

It comes down to freedom. And for me, that is worth giving my life to ensure my son has the same liberties.

[NoneofYourBiz]

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

.

This quote is posted in my office. One of my favorites.