And Stannis Laughed Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Has this turned into another Renly v Stannis thing? Doesn't it always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 But doesn't Renly threaten Stannis by crowning himself? It's not an open or direct threat like the siege but Renly but it's a threat nonetheless at least to Stannis No, as how Renly wasn't moving against Stannis. Simply, he could have just continued his pouting on DS and Renly would leave him alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I'm not sure how Stannis started the fight when Renly's the one who, with zero provocation or cause, crowned himself out of line. But whatever.1) He was rebelling against Joff/the Lannisters.2) Who were his enemies and meant him harm.3) And rather than follow form and die, he had the alternative of becoming King. He had his brother's example, which he even cited. ( Is this the part where everything Renly says is a lie, even without need, but Stannismspeaks gospel?) It was his 3rd survival plan, but it was a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 We don't know. We can speculate, but we don't know.We do know what Stannis did. It's a false equivalence. If you're suggesting that I shed a tear over the loss of someone who was ultimately just a strutting peacock who thought holding tourneys made him king material, sorry, no sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Doesn't it always. Not always, sometimes your poll turns into a Robb vs Edmure fiasco Edit: Edmure FTW that's one fish I would like to see on the iron throne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 However, crowning himself, was not. Stannis comes first. Renly was undeniably a selfish, power grabbing asshole when he willingly skipped his nephews and brother to claim kingship. He lived as a green boy, and he died as one. Like how Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Rhaenys, and Dany all came before Robert yet Bob, Jon, Ned, and Hoster sure didn't crown any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Am I the only one without strong feelings one way or another towards Stannis? I don't particularly like or hate him, he's just...there. The people around him are the interesting ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 1) He was rebelling against Joff/the Lannisters.2) Who were his enemies and meant him harm.3) And rather than follow form and die, he had the alternative of becoming King. He had his brother's example, which he even cited. ( Is this the part where everything Renly says is a lie, even without need, but Stannismspeaks gospel?) It was his 3rd survival plan, but it was a good one. OK, say Renly did make his claim based on force. If might makes right, then Stannis's might made right when it succeeded in killing Renly. Renly had a bigger army, Stannis had a shadowbaby and the shadowbaby won. You can also spare me the StanStan snark, as I'm not one. But I've always found the idea that I should feel sorry for Renly or hold his death against Stannis to be absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 But doesn't Renly threaten Stannis by crowning himself? It's not an open or direct threat like the siege but Renly but it's a threat nonetheless at least to StannisGah!He wasn't usurping Stannis, he was usurping Joffrey.He was also trying to survive, and Stannis had disappeared for a couple years. Renly first tried to replace Cersei with Marg (long shot, but it's Bob) and then tried to secure Ned's Regency. I am amazed at how people think Renly should have laid down and died because rebelling against Joff (fine!) and Tommen (no problem!) and Myrcella (go man go!) also meant Stannis (whoa! Stop, this is criminal!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Like how Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Rhaenys, and Dany all came before Robert yet Bob, Jon, Ned, and Hoster sure didn't crown any of them. Rhaegar was an enemy of the Rebels cause. Aegon, Viserys, Rhaenys and Dany were children. Hell, Dany wasn't even born yet. Stannis was alive, well, with a daughter and a wife of child bearing age. And Renly's fight for "self preservation" wasn't even as legitimate as Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Rhaegar was an enemy of the Rebels cause, Aegon, Viserys, Rhaenys and Dany were children. Hell, Dany wasn't even born yet. So usurping is only bad when you are usurping an adult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So usurping is only bad when you are usurping an adult? Would it be at all practical to crown them? This is why I replaced you with Keldorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If you're suggesting that I shed a tear over the loss of someone who was ultimately just a strutting peacock who thought holding tourneys made him king material, sorry, no sale.Actually, rare for Westeros, we have Renly's entire political platform explicitly laid out. Real power. The power of the Stormlands and Reach. The power that was following the military textbook except for that chapter about previously unheard of magic assassins. I suppose not reading that un-chapter definitely shows us Renly's lack of worth, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 So usurping is only bad when you are usurping an adult? It makes less sense when you're usurping an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Would it be at all practical to crown them? Yes, as even the infant Aegon would likely become a more mature king then Robert if you give him a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Stannis Laughed Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Am I the only one without strong feelings one way or another towards Stannis? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Would it be at all practical to crown them? This is why I replaced you with KeldornAh, this is the part I love; sudden pragmatism. Gets me every time we have one of these 'duty, honour, Stannis!' discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Actually, rate for Westeros, we have Renly's entire political platform explicitly laid out. Real power. The power of the Stormlands and Reach. The power that was following the military textbook except for that chapter about previously unheard of magic assassins. I suppose not reading that un-chapter definitely shows us Renly's lack of worth, yeah. Nothing says real power like starving out the capital's citizens, I guess. And doesn't Renly's entire downfall just show that in this series, following the "military textbook" sometimes amounts to jack shit? Yes, as even the infant Aegon would likely become a more mature king then Robert if you give him a couple years. Except for the wee issue of Aegon already being a corpse by the time Robert, Jon or Ned would have been in a position to crown him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yes, as even the infant Aegon would likely become a more mature king then Robert if you give him a couple years. Maybe, or he could've been like most of the Targs of Egg's generation. I can't judge based on YG because I think he's a blackfyre. Also, I know Robert's reign was bad for the throne debt wise, but as a feudal society power of the throne is pretty decentralized no? It seems that because of the relative autonomy expressed by LPs business was pretty usual and maybe even good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannatic Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Actually, rare for Westeros, we have Renly's entire political platform explicitly laid out. Real power. The power of the Stormlands and Reach. The power that was following the military textbook except for that chapter about previously unheard of magic assassins. I suppose not reading that un-chapter definitely shows us Renly's lack of worth, yeah. Renly's lack of worth is shown to us via the fact his little clique of sycophants and yes men all tell him he would be a good king, so he decides to go for it anyway despite all the laws against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.