BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Robb would be the lord of Winterfell and Bejen would be his castellan ,Petyr Baelish would try to seduce Catelyn, Jon Snow would be name Eddard Dayne or Sand .Stannis woud have never rebelled ,Janos Slynt would still lead the Gold cloaks and Joffrey would still be coo coo for cocoa puffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tony of House Stark Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 if Stannis never rebels there is no need for a lannister tyrell alliance so Joffrey doesn't necessarily marry Marg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Or you know Ned was actually a good swordsmen in his prime. Obviously not at the same level as Arthur Dayne, but with a 7v3 advantage it was enough. I keep seeing people state it as a fact that Ned wasn't a great fighter and there is nothing to support such a statement. He trained with Robert. He fought throughout Robert's Rebellion without being injured. Ned didn't have the "reputation", but he was the type of man who didn't seek a reputation. He isn't bad, but neither is he good. He's got no particular talent for it, but 15+ years of of the best training money can buy and better. He's an average fighter, average for the high nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalatis Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 He isn't bad, but neither is he good. He's got no particular talent for it, but 15+ years of of the best training money can buy and better. He's an average fighter, average for the high nobility. What is this based off of? I would say the fact that he has walked away from so many battles without being hurt is sufficient evidence of his ability. Even though it was 7v3 at ToJ he again walked away without injury from 3 of the greatest swordsmen in the realm. I'm not arguing that he was one of the best, but I would say he is better than average. GRRM wrote that scene with some respect for Ned's ability, else there would have been a lot more than 7 when he fought. The only excuse I've seen for the 7v3 is that Ned was highly arrogant in his ability, which doesn't match his character at all. Ned was honorable, but he knew his own ability and that of the King's Guard at the ToJ. He would not have arrived with less men then he needed to win. I'm talking about Ned in his prime and not the Ned from GoT. By GoT he had been at peace for many years and was raising a family and ruling the North. No doubt his ability with the sword would degrade without constant practice. edit: I think it is highly unwarranted for people to suggest that he was average as all the evidence provided by the books shows he was *probably* an exceptional fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 edit: I think it is highly unwarranted for people to suggest that he was average as all the evidence provided by the books shows he was *probably* an exceptional fighter. :agree: You don't survive as long as Eddard Stark, accomplishing all his feats and are only an average fighter. I don't fight in tournaments because when I fight a man for real, I don't want him to know what I can do. ~Eddard to Ser Jaime Lannister (TV SHOW) Premise remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tony of House Stark Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ned is definitely a solid fighter and he has a VS sword. there is no reason for people to question his swordsmanship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 What is this based off of? I would say the fact that he has walked away from so many battles without being hurt is sufficient evidence of his ability. Even though it was 7v3 at ToJ he again walked away without injury from 3 of the greatest swordsmen in the realm. I'm not arguing that he was one of the best, but I would say he is better than average. GRRM wrote that scene with some respect for Ned's ability, else there would have been a lot more than 7 when he fought. The only excuse I've seen for the 7v3 is that Ned was highly arrogant in his ability, which doesn't match his character at all. Ned was honorable, but he knew his own ability and that of the King's Guard at the ToJ. He would not have arrived with less men then he needed to win. I'm talking about Ned in his prime and not the Ned from GoT. By GoT he had been at peace for many years and was raising a family and ruling the North. No doubt his ability with the sword would degrade without constant practice. edit: I think it is highly unwarranted for people to suggest that he was average as all the evidence provided by the books shows he was *probably* an exceptional fighter. He's saying Ned was average for a Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 He can marry Joff to Margaery without making Mace hand. Tywin did exactly that. Royal marriage is tempting enough on its own. Sadism towards animals is an indicator of future violence towards people. Joffery was a sociopath and the beatings he received from Robert probably had a large impact on making him that way it certainly wouldn't have cured him. We don't know that there were beatings, we know he beat him after Joff sliced a cat open. I am not necessarily sure we know more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Cat would be the Original Marg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :agree: You don't survive as long as Eddard Stark, accomplishing all his feats and are only an average fighter. ~Eddard to Ser Jaime LannisterThat's the tv show. Ned's average. Tywin survived more than Ned.(Why do people seem to need to make Ned a good/great fighter?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 That's the tv show. Ned's average.Tywin survived more than Ned.(Why do people seem to need to make Ned a good/great fighter?) The quote might be but the premise remains the same. In the book, Rodrick was said that he was from the north, and shared the Stark views on tournaments. No one said Tywin didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :agree: You don't survive as long as Eddard Stark, accomplishing all his feats and are only an average fighter. ~Eddard to Ser Jaime Lannister That's TV Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The quote might be but the premise remains the same. In the book, Rodrick was said that he was from the north, and shared the Stark views on tournaments. Does this some how make them any better than people who participate in tourneys? Plus, Eddard has no combat feats. He likely was a lead from the rear commander too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The quote might be but the premise remains the same. In the book, Rodrick was said that he was from the north, and shared the Stark views on tournaments. Guys from the North enter tournaments. Jory enters the first one he's around for. It's not a part of Northern culture, but that has nothing to do with being more or less valid. GRRM said Brandon was very good at the joust. Ned's sentiment in the show doesn't reflect Ned's thinking; he doesn't fight because he's neither particularly good nor particularly interested in martial pursuits for their own sake. The show intentionally upped Ned's fighting skills because they felt tv audiences needed that. I think they're wrong, but sometimes I wonder. No one said Tywin didn't...But if surviving x means good fighter, and Tywin survived x+, and no one pretends he's a good fighter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I acknowledge that I used a quote from the TV Show. Shame on me. I don't particularly like/hate Eddard Stark, so I'm not trying to illogically root for my favorite character. What I was trying to say is that Eddard must be an above average fighter surviving as long as he did through all he did. There are obviously better fighters out there and there are those who survived longer while going through more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think if Ned died at the ToJ, Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwyne would have turned their cloak back to Targ loyalists, since they surrendered to Ned. Robert would still be injured from the Trident, so without Ned to lead his forces, the war would have languished but not ended. If there was any prospect of that happening, the Kingsguard would have contacted Mace and co. prior their surrender to let them know there was still something to fight for. Even if Jon is legitimate, he's a weeks-old baby at that point. If Mace isn't willing to keep fighting for Viserys, he's not going to fight for Jon. Also, frankly, I think the imputed strength of the Reach army during the rebellion is unrealistically low based on how many men GRRM gives them in the main story, but that's how Martin set it up, so you have to run with it. I'd say it's even less likely that House Martell is going to rally behind Rhaegar's son by the woman he spurned Elia for. People have suggested that Benjen might marry Catelyn in this scenario, and I agree that's possible. At an absolute minimum, Benjen would be marrying. There would be no option for buggering off to the Wall when the main Stark line consists of a one-year-old boy and Benjen. It would be his duty to marry and produce as many additional heirs as possible, whether he does that with Catelyn or with some other eligible lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :agree: You don't survive as long as Eddard Stark, accomplishing all his feats and are only an average fighter. ~Eddard to Ser Jaime Lannister (TV SHOW) Premise remains. And the show is BS. GRRM himself contrasted Ned's upped performance on the show with the real, average Ned. By the way, Ned names the swordsman of the family. It was Brandon. I acknowledge that I used a quote from the TV Show. Shame on me. I don't particularly like/hate Eddard Stark, so I'm not trying to illogically root for my favorite character. What I was trying to say is that Eddard must be an above average fighter surviving as long as he did through all he did. There are obviously better fighters out there and there are those who survived longer while going through more. What did he survive? Two wars? I guess General MacArthur was a beast in personal combat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Nevermind...you all are correct. I am wrong. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Or you know Ned was actually a good swordsmen in his prime. Obviously not at the same level as Arthur Dayne, but with a 7v3 advantage it was enough. I keep seeing people state it as a fact that Ned wasn't a great fighter and there is nothing to support such a statement. He trained with Robert. He fought throughout Robert's Rebellion without being injured. Ned didn't have the "reputation", but he was the type of man who didn't seek a reputation. GRRM has said Ned wasn't a great swordsmen just a good soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 GRRM has said Ned wasn't a great swordsmen just a good soldier. I stand corrected by the man himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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