Could Varys and Littlefinger be working together?

[Northernmonkey]

It's generally assumed that Varys and Littlefinger are enemies, that they're two opposing forces battling for supremacy, but is it possible that they're working together?

As far as I can tell, their aims aren't contradictory. Varys' aim seems to be to put Aegon on the throne. LF's aim seems to be to control the Vale, the North and the Riverlands though Sansa (although he probably has other long-term plans as well). So is it possible that they've agreed to control Westeros together?

I also think it's possible that they're planning to marry Aegon to Sansa, therefore making them both the proxy-leaders of Westeros.

I've got no evidence for this, but is there any reason why it couldn't be true? It would be quite a big twist if it turned out the two most dangerous men in Westeros were actually on the same side.

[Northernmonkey]

Someone respond.....please!

[TheHouseHB]

I do not think they are working together, but I think their interests will cross paths with each other in Sansa and Aegon.

[TallTyrion]

I've considered this. I think one reason so many people view them as enemies is that the show pushed that narrative heavily. I can't remember a lot of instances in the books where they are enemies.

Littlefinger's end game is still unclear so it's hard to tell if his goals are at odds with Varys'.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Both men are trying to tear down the current status quo in favor of their own visions, but those visions are very different. Varys wants peace and stability, while LF wants power and revenge. While there's a theoretical chance marrying Sansa to Aegon would help both of them, neither man can trust the other's intellect and power base, so I doubt they would be willing to work together.

All that said, there's a good chance one or the other will figure the other one's game out and try and use it for their own purposes, but that's not really working together.

[Red Wedding Cake]

I like to think of them as enemies, but they are working together when they are introduced. It is Varys who discovers Catelyn was traveling to King's Landing. Varys tells Littlefinger, Littlefinger intercepts Cat to further his plans of taking down the Starks and Lannisters. As soon as I reread some textual evidence they are working against each other I'll write it down.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

I don't think of them as enemies...nor as allies...but two integral cogs in two different schemes.

[James Arryn]

The fact that Varys both identifies LF as a danger AND has him in his power several times and does nothing about it certainly suggests something is going on. Could be as simple as identifying LF as mostly seeking the same ends, thus letting him do a lot of the work, or it could be something else, but if it turns out that Varys is just the latest in a long line of people who act unaccountably stupid to LF's immediate benefit, I will be disappointed.

[JonBranRickon]

Varys is pro Targ/BlkFyre while LF seems to interested in winning or gaining more power at any cost. The two schemes are not necessarily in conflict today but may be if fAegon is not accepted by Dany. In otherwords LF seems to make himself useful/indispensable to anyone in power he has no allies only opportunities.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Nah, I don't think so. Let's see:

In aGoT: their aims are completely opposed. LF instigates war while Varys tries to stall it

In aCoK: they have a common enemy in Stannis and they both undermine him in their own ways (LF brokers the Tyrell alliance, Varys rats out the Antler Men, etc)

In aSoS: once again they have a common enemy in the Lannisters. LF kills Joff, Varys (possibly) manipulate Tyrion to kill Tywin. However, LF steals Sansa away and goes through great lenghts to keep her identity hidden from Varys' birds

In aFfC/aDwD: The Mad Mouse, Varys' potential spy, shows up at the Vale looking for Sansa. To me that's the first shot fired between them. Once the Lannister-Tyrell alliance effectively ends, the gloves will be off, I think

Speculation corner: Via the Mad Mouse, Varys will learn about LF's plan to marry Sansa to Harry. Then he'll tell Illyrio, and he will show up at the HoBaW, and give up something valuable (maybe the sword Blackfyre?) in exchange for a hit on LF or Harry, and Arya will be chosen for that mission

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

...

I largely agree with this. Based on the information available so far, I think inevitably they will be at odds unless one of them is killed/incapacitated before the end of the series as LF wants the chaos for the potential of his own advancement while Varys will likely want stability if Aegon ever gets the throne. So if LF somehow miraculously gets the throne first Varys will probably work against him to get Aegon on it. If Aegon gets the throne, I imagine LF will continue on his current trajectory and stir things up in hopes of being able to improve his standing. Unless one of them decides to compromise(which seems extremely unlikely) as without it they deem their end game goals impossible to achieve, I see no way around it.

[mdw4950]

i dont think so. theyre both similar but with different end results. varys wanted to try and keep everything stable until he could put a targaryen on the throne. LF basically started everything so he could keep rising higher through war.

id have to assume that LF would rather keep the baratheon/lannister regime going as long as he could because he has a lot more potential there than with another, possibly more stable, family in power.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Possible, yes. Likely, no.

I'm kind of hoping for a showdown between these two where one leaves with the certain knowledge that he has not succeeded in outsmarting the other.

[walkingWITHcersei]

U know after just finishing a reread of the first book the only time i can recall Varys talking about LF is when he's warning Ned that Robert is in danger, and he mentions LF last ("and only the gods know what LF wants ") almost as an afterthought. The way he said it made me feel that Varys really doesn't know what LF wants but that he's unconcerned about his effect on the Varys Illyrio master plan. The show really did play up their rivalry and it made for great TV but in the books i think they're on divergent paths and one or both of their stories may resolve themselves without any further interaction between the two. Or I'm wrong and they're both the ultimate players facing off to the death but that text doesn't leave me with that impression at all.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Here is what I think of Varys & LF working together.

[Sanset]

Baelish and Varys cannot work together because they have antagonistic nature; ironically, they are the same because bottom-line they seek power.

Varys represents the old blood of the dragon tradition. He's working on the black and red dragon plot.

Varys is a Blcakfyre theory says he’s working on a black and red dragon blood line to take the Iron Throne. Rusted Iron turns from black to red, as we can read in this quote from AFfC, 37, Brienne VII.

"Is the dragon sign still there?" asked Podrick.
"No," said Septon Meribald. "When the smith’s son was an old man, a bastard son of the fourth Aegon rose up in rebellion against his trueborn brother and took for his sigil a black dragon. These lands belonged to Lord Darry then, and his lordship was fiercely loyal to the king. The sight of the black iron dragon made him wroth, so he cut down the post, hacked the sign into pieces, and cast them into the river. One of the dragon’s heads washed up on the Quiet Isle many years later, though by that time it was red with rust. (...)"

(AFfC, 37, Brienne VII)

Petyr Baelish, on the other side, is working with the Iron Bank, which can sound very ironic, by the way. They don't care about the bloodlines or tradition, they seem to be the pragmatic crew, so they care about their due. They can pretend that they want to make things work, to get things done. But in reality they are just the other side of the same coin, because they subscribe the theory that gets 'themselves' to the power.

"I will leave you." Varys rose. "I know how weary you must be. I only wished to welcome you, my lord, and tell you how very pleased I am by your arrival. We have dire need of you on the council. Have you seen the comet? "
"I'm short, not blind," Tyrion said. Out on the kingsroad, it had seemed to cover half the sky, outshining the crescent moon.

"In the streets, they call it the Red Messenger," Varys said. "They say it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow." The eunuch rubbed his powdered hands together. "May I leave you with a bit of a riddle, Lord Tyrion?" He did not wait for an answer. "In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. 'Do it' says the king, 'for I am your lawful ruler.' 'Do it' says the priest, 'for I command you in the names of the gods.' 'Do it' says the rich man, 'and all this gold shall be yours.' So tell me-who lives and who dies?" Bowing deeply, the eunuch hurried from the common room on soft slippered feet.
When he was gone, Chella gave a snort and Shae wrinkled up her pretty face. "The rich man lives. Doesn't he?"
Tyrion sipped at his wine, thoughtful. "Perhaps. Or not. That would depend on the sellsword, it seems." He set down his cup. "Come, let's go upstairs."

(ACoK, 3, Tyrion I)

PS: As 'someone' could have said: Varys and Petyr have too much iron in their blood. But they are not working together in any way except to destroy the peace of the realm. They have no concord, they represent the discord. Actually, their songs have no heart at all.

Edited to correct spelling.

[farm_ecology]

I find it interesting that everyone seems to know the views, aims, and personal beliefs of these spiders and manipulators known to lie constantly.

While I don't think Varys and Littlefinger are working together, I also don't think it's out of the realms of possibility. Let's take a look at the timeline and events of GoT.

Varys apparently wants or foresees war between the Lannisters and Starks. Litterfinger poisons Arryn, accuses the Lannisters and then later makes a spur of the moment decision to put the blame of Brans assassination on Tyrion (which by the way I am convinced was not actually joffery). Keep in mind this is done in the presence of Varys. This could be "in your face" as when LF shows off the dagger to Tyrion later.

Tyrion is captured and Ned attempts to overthrow Joffery and put Stannis on the throne. We know LF then backstabs Ned, making him a hostage and thereby (hopefully) stopping the war that was starting, while also preventing Stannis from "cleansing the small council". If I'm correct, both Varys and LF support the idea of Ned then taking the black, however Ned is then executed and peace is out of the window.

Fastforward a little later, and now both Vary and LF are destabilizing the realm (LF killing Jof (apparently) and Varys killing Kevin).

So far as I can see, the only real evidence of them being so opposed is them claiming as such (which they of course, would), and Tyrion's suspicions.

So again, I don't necessarily think they are working together, but I find it difficult to trust what they claim.

[DeathYon]

Nah, I don't think so. Let's see:

In aGoT: their aims are completely opposed. LF instigates war while Varys tries to stall it

In aCoK: they have a common enemy in Stannis and they both undermine him in their own ways (LF brokers the Tyrell alliance, Varys rats out the Antler Men, etc)

In aSoS: once again they have a common enemy in the Lannisters. LF kills Joff, Varys (possibly) manipulate Tyrion to kill Tywin. However, LF steals Sansa away and goes through great lenghts to keep her identity hidden from Varys' birds

In aFfC/aDwD: The Mad Mouse, Varys' potential spy, shows up at the Vale looking for Sansa. To me that's the first shot fired between them. Once the Lannister-Tyrell alliance effectively ends, the gloves will be off, I think

Speculation corner: Via the Mad Mouse, Varys will learn about LF's plan to marry Sansa to Harry. Then he'll tell Illyrio, and he will show up at the HoBaW, and give up something valuable (maybe the sword Blackfyre?) in exchange for a hit on LF or Harry, and Arya will be chosen for that mission

I never considered that The Mad Mouse may have been a spy.

It makes a lot of sense now.

[Mithras]

No. But Varys allowed LF to play his own game and escalade the Wot5K, which suited him better than the Dothraki invasion they were planning to create chaos.

[Northernmonkey]

They might not be working together, but I don't think they're opposed at the moment.

If Varys found out about LF's plan to marry Sansa to Harry the Heir, would he do anything about it? Probably not, because in the long run it will help get rid of the Lannister's allies.

If LF found out about Varys' plan to crown Aegon, would he do anything about it? Probably not, because it would help get rid of the Lannisters.

So at the moment they're effectively on the same side - the one that's trying to get rid of the Lannisters.

The wildcard at the moment is Stannis. Both LF and Varys need him dead (and probably Shireen as well). I wonder if either of them are working on it?