[spoiler WoIaF] Let's talk about Skagos

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I admit that, of all things, the stuff about Skagos piqued my interest the most, or at least, I feel confident saying that Skagos will end up being important in the main story. Or rather, more confident.

First off, the cannibalism: The maester seems to agree with the island's reputation, but I'm still a bit skeptical. The island is given as a point for maritime trading in the main series, and I just can't think that that would be the case if you ended up dinner if you stepped foot on the island. I think it's a case where the Skagosi may have practiced cannibalism at one time, but don't do it (much?) anymore; it could even be a case where they deliberately play it up to be left alone.

Second, it looks like the horned goat is in fact our unicorn.

Third: Obsidian. There is obsidian on Skagos. This has a few possible implications.

First and most immediately, they have a supply of what we know can kill Others, or at least, kill them in the right circumstance. If Rickon Stark has been taken in there, Skagos may end up being a shot in the arm of both fresh men and obsidian for either the North's political cause or the fight against the Others, or both.

Second, and this could be a plot point or just an easter egg, but obsidian is associated with volcanic activity, such as with Dragonstone. Skagos and Dragonstone have obsidian deposits in common. Dragonstone is also where the Targaryen dragons traditionally hatched and flourished best, and I think most people put that down to having space to grow and the island being volcanic in nature, given where the dragons were discovered in Valyria.

If Skagos has a similar volcanic geology, is it possible for a dragon to have gone there? Did Cannibal end up there, and that's where the "cannibal" rumors began, and it ended up being twisted to mean human cannibalism? That was discussed before the book was released and treated (fairly) as being a reach or crackpot. Does the obsidian reveal give that idea more weight? Even if Cannibal is dead (and, reasonably speaking, he almost certainly is), does that preclude the possibility of eggs on the island?

I think the first point is the most logical conclusion and probably where the obsidian actually comes in. And yet the second is also interesting to consider.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I also found the bit about Skagos interesting. In addition to the obsidian and the possible volcanic environment, I found it interesting that they are also one of the Northerners that still keep to the old ways since it was indicated they still sacrifice to their weirwoods.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

If obsidian actually originates on Skagos itself (rather than possibly being picked up somewhere else, like Hardhome), that confirms Skagos as volcanic. There is literally no way (irl) to get obsidian without volcanic activity. I doubt (although who really knows) that it works all that differently in Martin's world. Even if the obsidian does originate in some place like Hardhome (which is close to Skagos), it indicates volcanic activity in some location the Skagosi have access to (which seems unlikely to be too far). I'd say dragons being somewhere in that vacinity is absolutely possible

[Moondancer]

Is this common knowledge in the North, I wonder, obsidian on Skagos?

[Mithras]

The volcanic background of Skagos also fuels the theories about Hardhome/Doom/FM etc.

We should also discuss the Hairy Men/Andals/First Men/Skagosi/Ibbenese.

If dragonriding was first done by the Last Hero (or his son from the female CotF) during the Long Night as I suspect, the route through Skagos/Ibben/Andalos etc. open a new channel for the tales to spread.

Beyond the Forest of Qohor, Essos opens up upon a vast expanse of windswept plains, gentle rolling hills, fertile river valleys, great blue lakes, and endless steppes where the grass grows as high as a horse’s head. From the Forest of Qohor in the west to the towering mountains known as the Bones, the grasslands stretch more than seven hundred leagues. It was here amidst these grasses that civilization was born in the Dawn Age. Ten thousand years ago or more, when Westeros was yet a howling wilderness inhabited only by the giants and children of the forest, the first true towns arose beside the banks of the river Sarne and beside the myriad vassal streams that fed her on her meandering course northward to the Shivering Sea. The histories of those days are lost to us, sad to say, for the kingdoms of the grass came and went in large measure before the race of man became literate. Only the legends persist. From such we know of the Fisher Queens, who ruled the lands adjoining the Silver Sea— the great inland sea at the heart of the grasslands— from a floating palace that made its way endlessly around its shores.

The Fisher Queens were wise and benevolent and favored of the gods, we are told, and kings and lords and wise men sought the floating palace for their counsel. Beyond their domains, however, other peoples rose and fell and fought, struggling for a place in the sun. Some maesters believe that the First Men originated here before beginning the long westward migration that took them across the Arm of Dorne to Westeros. The Andals, too, may have arisen in the fertile fields south of the Silver Sea. Tales are told of the Hairy Men, a race of shaggy savage warriors, who rode to battle on unicorns. Though larger than the Ibbenese of the present, they may well have been their forebears. We hear as well of the lost city Lyber, where acolytes of a spider goddess and a serpent god fought an endless, bloody war. East of them stood the kingdoms of the centaurs, half man and half horse.

[Mithras]

Is this common knowledge in the North, I wonder, obsidian on Skagos?

Yes, because they trade it.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

Yes, because they trade it.

It's implied that the Skagosi do not trade often, so what they trade could quite possibly not be common knowledge

[Mithras]

It's implied that the Skagosi do not trade often, so what they trade could quite possibly not be common knowledge

I doubt Jon does not know anything about them as a person who is brought up in Winterfell.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

I doubt Jon does not know anything about them as a person who is brought up in Winterfell.

Who said anything about Jon Snow? I thought what was commonly known in the North was being discussed. That said, Jon might very well not know since he was not raised to be heir to the North. Cotter Pyke might know more about the economics of Skagos, simply due to proximity,

[Mithras]

Who said anything about Jon Snow? I thought what was commonly known in the North was being discussed. That said, Jon might very well not know since he was not raised to be heir to the North. Cotter Pyke might know more about the economics of Skagos, simply due to proximity,

Jon took the same lessons with Robb. Donal Noye saw the Skagosi coming to Eastwatch for trade. Mance said that trade between the wildlings, the NW and possibly the Skagosi at Eastwatch are more live than people think. Haggon/Varamyr confirmed that.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

Jon took the same lessons with Robb. Donal Noye saw the Skagosi coming to Eastwatch for trade. Mance said that trade between the wildlings, the NW and possibly the Skagosi at Eastwatch are more live than people think. Haggon/Varamyr confirmed that.

Does Jon ever think about Skagos in connection with dragonglass, which he seems to understand might be important?

Yes, I mentioned Cotter Pyke because of Eastwatch. That doesn't mean that a new Lord Commander who's never been to Eastwatch (I'm not aware of Jon ever being there anyway) would necessarily know anything about the Skagosi

Still, if Skagos is isolated enough, the Lords of Winterfell might not know about the details of their exports. Certainly one could expect the parties more likely to actually trade with Skagos to have a better idea

[Free Northman Reborn]

Come on. You seriously think some master in Oldtown will know that Skagos produces obsidian but their own Lords Paramount do not?

Of course Jon knows.

[Mithras]

We should also discuss the Hairy Men/Andals/First Men/Skagosi/Ibbenese.

If dragonriding was first done by the Last Hero (or his son from the female CotF) during the Long Night as I suspect, the route through Skagos/Ibben/Andalos etc. open a new channel for the tales to spread.

And, in fact, there is evidence for this, as dragon bones have been found as far north as Ib, and even in the jungles of Sothoryos.

Martin, George R.R.; Garcia, Elio; Antonsson, Linda (2014-10-28). The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) (Kindle Locations 412-413). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Dragon bones found in Ib? What does it mean?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think Jon is probably vaguely aware that Skagos deals in obsidian, but it wouldn't jump out at him as a possible solution the way Dragonstone did. But if Rickon comes back into play, then it might.

[Ser Lepus]

I admit that, of all things, the stuff about Skagos piqued my interest the most, or at least, I feel confident saying that Skagos will end up being important in the main story. Or rather, more confident.

First off, the cannibalism: The maester seems to agree with the island's reputation, but I'm still a bit skeptical. The island is given as a point for maritime trading in the main series, and I just can't think that that would be the case if you ended up dinner if you stepped foot on the island. I think it's a case where the Skagosi may have practiced cannibalism at one time, but don't do it (much?) anymore; it could even be a case where they deliberately play it up to be left alone.

I don't know. Cannibals aren't required to eat everybody they meet...It has been said that they eat the hearts and livers of defeated enemies, and they probably eat everybody they can kill in time of famine, but they probably are smart enough to understand that it's in their best interest not to eat the traders who bring them wares they need.

Second, it looks like the horned goat is in fact our unicorn.

Yup. People around the forums think it could be an Elasmotherioum.

Third: Obsidian. There is obsidian on Skagos. This has a few possible implications.

First and most immediately, they have a supply of what we know can kill Others, or at least, kill them in the right circumstance. If Rickon Stark has been taken in there, Skagos may end up being a shot in the arm of both fresh men and obsidian for either the North's political cause or the fight against the Others, or both.

Second, and this could be a plot point or just an easter egg, but obsidian is associated with volcanic activity, such as with Dragonstone. Skagos and Dragonstone have obsidian deposits in common. Dragonstone is also where the Targaryens traditionally hatched and flourished best, and I think most people put that down to having space to grow and the island being volcanic in nature, given where the dragons were discovered in Valyria.

If Skagos has a similar volcanic geology, is it possible for a dragon to have gone there? Did Cannibal end up there, and that's where the "cannibal" rumors began, and it ended up being twisted to mean human cannibalism? That was discussed before the book was released and treated (fairly) as being a reach or crackpot. Does the obsidian reveal give that idea more weight? Even if Cannibal is dead (and, reasonably speaking, he almost certainly is), does that preclude the possibility of eggs on the island?

I think the first point is the most logical conclusion and probably where the obsidian actually comes in. And yet the second is also interesting to consider.

I dunno, there is obsidan in many places in Planethos, and not all of them have to be relevant to the story.

[Mithras]

Tongue. A huge, hairy, foul-smelling folk (some maesters believe the Skagosi to have a strong admixture of Ibbenese blood; others suggest that they may be descended from giants), clad in skins and furs and untanned hides, and said to ride on unicorns, the Skagosi are the subject of many a dark rumor.

One of the most interesting thing we learn about them is that they are actually close kin to the Ibbenese. The Ibbenese in their islands do not trust the strangers. All more reason why Davos will have a really hard time in Skagos.

Which also raises the questions: Are they really First Men? How did they come to worship the weirwoods? What do the Ibbenese worship?

[Perfidious Algernon]

First off, the cannibalism: The maester seems to agree with the island's reputation, but I'm still a bit skeptical. The island is given as a point for maritime trading in the main series, and I just can't think that that would be the case if you ended up dinner if you stepped foot on the island. I think it's a case where the Skagosi may have practiced cannibalism at one time, but don't do it (much?) anymore; it could even be a case where they deliberately play it up to be left alone.

I thought it was interesting that most of what the Citadel knows on the subject comes from one book by one maester. They're far from verifying any of the rumors about Skagos, particularly the whole bit where the Skagosi murder everyone on Skane.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I thought it was interesting that most of what the Citadel knows on the subject comes from one book by one maester. They're far from verifying any of the rumors about Skagos, particularly the whole bit where the Skagosi murder everyone on Skane.

That's a good point, too. Full disclosure that I think the cannibalism thing is either not true at all, is not true anymore or is true but only to a minimal extent.

The obsidian would be much easier to verify.

[Fire Eater]

They could have likely retained more of the ancient traditions of the First Men and Old Gods given their isolation and lack of contact with the outside world, possibly including blood sacrifice to the Old Gods (likely criminals). The cannibalism could have been during harsh winters when food ran out on rare occassions. I think the "Feast of Skane" is largely exaggerated. People have been exaggerating other peoples as cannibals for millenia from the Romans describing the Irish as such to Europeans describing the Mongols and American Indians in later times.

They originally had much more contact with the rest of the North and the outside world, being described as accustomed to trading across the Bay of Seals along with raiding. Of course, it was the latter that led to the Starks breaking the power of Skagos, and forbidding them from having any fleet or ships. The Skagosi rebellion during Daeron II's reign could have been partly to regain the right to build and sail ships, and likely break their millenia-long isolation. If that is the case, then Davos probably has something to bargain for in exchange for pledging their swords to Stannis and Rickon.

The unicorns given their description as "monstrous mounts" are likely Elasmotherium or some other Pleistocene era woolly rhinoceros.

[Ser Lepus]

Tongue. A huge, hairy, foul-smelling folk (some maesters believe the Skagosi to have a strong admixture of Ibbenese blood; others suggest that they may be descended from giants), clad in skins and furs and untanned hides, and said to ride on unicorns, the Skagosi are the subject of many a dark rumor.

One of the most interesting thing we learn about them is that they are actually close kin to the Ibbenese. The Ibbenese in their islands do not trust the strangers. All more reason why Davos will have a really hard time in Skagos.

Which also raises the questions: Are they really First Men? How did they come to worship the weirwoods? What do the Ibbenese worship?

The only reason some maesters think they are related to the Ibbenese is that they are hairy and live by the north...they could be wrong.