The Riverlands Web V.3

[Booknerd2]

I'm taking it that Dog made it... I think Septon Meribald must have come when Dog started barking, as soon as they showed up, when Brienne was at the forge with Gendry.

There's another part where Brienne asks what happened to Dog, but Gendry thinks she means the Hound...

There was also a bit with Sansa feeding Lady under the table, then Septon Meribald was feeding Dog the same way. "A direwolf is a savage beast... Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it." (that went down nearby)...

I love that, too, and I do think the author is going there with showing another side to Sandor, that hopefully we'll see more of...

Also this, the Elder Brother news network:

"“The smallfolk call it the crossroads inn. Elder Brother told me that two of Masha Heddle’s nieces have opened it to trade once again.”

Whoops. I forgot. Did Meribald say this? So, no mention of BWB or orphanage…(still thinking of what I want to say)

[Booknerd2]

Edit: doubled by accident.

[LongRider]

#12 Dog ---

Some thoughts about Dog, to start things off... Septon Meribald wanders the Riverlands, ministering to the people there, and Dog is his companion. In AFFC, Dog, like Stranger, tells us the gravedigger is Sandor. We've talked about how Stranger and Sandor have similar natures, but Dog shares some of Sandor's qualities, too:

~~~~snip~~~~

Lovely!

We see the Hound metamorphose into a dog. He becomes more protective like Dog, loyal and like Dog, more independent until a break must be made. Then slowly, he learns to care for one needs care at time when she would just as well give up. He was helpful at the small village and then slowly lost his helm, his armor and nearly his life. And he begged for mercy and received a mercy he didn't expect.

Now the dog is healing up, but like Dog he's independent, he has work to finish and his pack; Stranger, is kicking and raring to go. ,

[Booknerd2]

Some little ones:

I like that right before EB gives Brienne "the Hound is so dead speech," Sandor as GD is representing his old self and almost tipping the hat to Dog.

It is a nice little wink. To show that maybe he is still the Hound inside, that he has fight left in him like Stranger goes, (not the Hound stuff that was bad and he should lose to move ahead) and his affinity for dogs, when maybe all was blotted out, as EB is trying to tell Brienne and it is supposed to be for the reader too, taunting us to take it at face value, when everything else in the scene, upon a closer look says otherwise.

Dog hasn’t revealed his name so Septon called him dog, he says. Yeah, well there is another Hound not revealing his name either right about now. I like that mini-parallel.

[LongRider]

I don't see Sandor losing his fierceness, he's not Lancel after all. Like a dog he can bare his teeth when he needs too. He'll fight on his own time for what's important to him, not the whims of selfish shallow sovereigns. Dog doesn't hang out with those types of folks either. He likes the man who helps people, networks and risks his own skin.

[Le Cygne]

And the last part, I think is tied to all the allusions to someone having someone. Robert saying Sansa would be better off with a dog, the literal Dog named dog and his interactions with Meribald and Gravedigger (Sandor), all the Sansa material and her connection with that old dog, all the initial series stuff with Sandor being Joff's dog.

It seems the unwavering, unconditional love and loyalty that animals give to us, well, the author is using that as examples for a human doing this for another human.

The thought that went into this to make it fit. The Cleganes sigil was designated dogs with a backstory, Sandor has the nickname and helm, and everything after that, there are many examples that connect to it all.

I love the way you put that. It's about belonging, perhaps, too. And how people come together in very unexpected ways. But it's all good...

Like when Sansa wants to pet him! And she's his master now, he's been trying to tell her that the whole time. He belongs to her. It all sinks in later.

Lovely!

We see the Hound metamorphose into a dog. He becomes more protective like Dog, loyal and like Dog, more independent until a break must be made. Then slowly, he learns to care for one needs care at time when she would just as well give up. He was helpful at the small village and then slowly lost his helm, his armor and nearly his life. And he begged for mercy and received a mercy he didn't expect.

Now the dog is healing up, but like Dog he's independent, he has work to finish and his pack; Stranger, is kicking and raring to go. ,

Beautiful, the way you put that... That's what I was trying to say, but you said it so well!

[LongRider]

I love the way you put that. It's about belonging, perhaps, too. And how people come together in very unexpected ways. But it's all good...

Like when Sansa wants to pet him! And she's his master now, he's been trying to tell her that the whole time. He belongs to her. It all sinks in later.

Beautiful, the way you put that... That's what I was trying to say, but you said it so well!

Awww, thanks Le Cygne!

[Le Cygne]

all the Sansa material and her connection with that old dog

I forgot about him... He's not far away, either, his other dog self! :lol:

The hound dog at the Fingers. And this is all going on while Sandor is "dying" and sobbing about the little bird who sang him a song.

Sansa makes "fast friends" with the hound. Her aunt is carriying on in the sack, her singing "set the dogs to barking"! So Sansa thinks of the Hound, of course.

Then some creep attacks her, and the hound dog tries but is too sick to help her, so she conjures up the real Hound! She pretends for a moment that Lothor is him.

Then she dreams about the Hound in bed with her, asking for a song. While sleeping with the hound dog. Who before that gave her a dog kiss, and she pet him (just like Blackwater).

Sansa found Bryen's old blind dog in her little alcove beneath the steps, and lay down next to him. He woke and licked her face. "You sad old hound," she said, ruffling his fur.

Then in her last chapter, after she's been pretending they kissed and placing him in the marriage bed and a whole lot more, she says she will have a "sweet dream" and wake to "dogs barking"!

Dogs, everywhere. When she's lonely at the Eyrie, she thinks, there are "no hounds to bark and growl"...

[Le Cygne]

Still funny that Arya meets a blacksmith and hits it off with him on a buddy road trip.

I didn't realize the blacksmith hands thing came up twice, Septa Mordane was quite the matchmaker. Once when she said it the first time, and then later, with Gendry.

[Booknerd2]

I forgot about him... He's not far away, either, his other dog self! :lol:

The hound dog at the Fingers. And this is all going on while Sandor is "dying" and sobbing about the little bird who sang him a song.

Sansa makes "fast friends" with the hound. Her aunt is carriying on in the sack, her singing "set the dogs to barking"! So Sansa thinks of the Hound, of course.

Then some creep attacks her, and the hound dog tries but is too sick to help her, so she conjures up the real Hound! She pretends for a moment that Lothor is him.

Then she dreams about the Hound in bed with her, asking for a song. While sleeping with the hound dog. Who before that gave her a dog kiss, and she pet him (just like Blackwater).

Sansa found Bryen's old blind dog in her little alcove beneath the steps, and lay down next to him. He woke and licked her face. "You sad old hound," she said, ruffling his fur.

Then in her last chapter, after she's been pretending they kissed and placing him in the marriage bed and a whole lot more, she says she will have a "sweet dream" and wake to "dogs barking"!

Dogs, everywhere. When she's lonely at the Eyrie, she thinks, there are "no hounds to bark and growl"...

There are friggin' dogs all over the place! LOL!.

The funny thing is just when I think I hit a bunch of tracks…the author has laid down more and more railroad tracks. It goes farther and deeper. Every word.

I love even in the show when she has Lady and Ilyn Payne shows up, and then so does Sandor. Just like someone's dog will get suspicious, stiffen, and start barking. I always liked that is showed early that like poor Lady was passing the torch to Sandor. He is her protector now. They bonded by book two, and even separation doesn't seem to change much. He won't shut up around Arya and EB. Sansa is doing her own thinking of him and musing.

I wonder if there is anything to the old dog being blind or old or whatever. But you just said a bunch of stuff I forgot or never picked up.

That has to be looked at too, the stuff above in your post. What he is doing and thinking on QI, when she is going through all these dog experiences and references too.

It is just great. In literature, real life, what have you. There is nothing like when someone is shown to not have something kick in until later. To see somebody go out of their way, or be misunderstood, or whatever, and for it to start to be reciprocated.

The "separation" devices for both Sansa and Sandor, and Gendy and Arya, are very different….but both very good story-telling and very effective.

[Booknerd2]

And connected to that. The two separations with the two sisters and their significants.

"Dogs" link Sandor and Sansa.

And as we all talked before. Another technique might have been used with Arya. That Dunsen on the list thing early on slipped right by me. That is very telling too. If that thing shows up (bull helm) and she's around or he is or someone else with it. Whooohh…boy!

The least offensible on the list, but possibly very important to her.

She has her reasons...

[Le Cygne]

I think the hound dog was sick because Sandor was "dying" - that's happening at the same time. But the real Hound certainly seemed quite well in her dream! And she keeps thinking about him...

[Booknerd2]

I think the hound dog was sick because Sandor was "dying" - that's happening at the same time. But the real Hound certainly seemed quite well in her dream! And she keeps thinking about him...

I have to seriously review it has been so long, but Argos Odysseus'/Ulysses' dog just popped into my mind. That part always made me tear up. He was old and sick and waiting, waiting, waiting for his master.

Not sure if any similarities, but possibly.

[Booknerd2]

Odysseus is in disguise, his dog is the only one that recognizes him for who he truly is.

[LongRider]

Dog hasn’t revealed his name so Septon called him dog, he says. Yeah, well there is another Hound not revealing his name either right about now. I like that mini-parallel.

Nice catch!

[LongRider]

No name Dog went up to no-name gravedigger and gave him a sniff and received a scratch on the ear. Now Dog and dog have been formally introduced. Will they meet again?

When the gravedigger flings the dirt at Brienne and party Brother Narbert tells him "Be more careful there. Septon M might have gotten a mouthful of dirt." No name is mentioned here and so the gravedigger remains without. When referred to later he's called "Our gravedigger..."

(And people wonder what the EB is hiding? It's all in plain sight)

[Le Cygne]

Nice catch!

There are quotes for that in the Dog post upthread...

[Le Cygne]

I was also thinking about Sandor and his animal names, he only calls Sansa by her name twice, and never calls "the little sister" by her name. Sansa is "little bird" most often (other times there's a pretty thrown in there), and "the little sister" is some variation of wolf (she-wolf, wolf-girl, wolf-bitch).

Little bird is because she's pretty and sings, even the first time when he was teasing her, he called her that when she patted his shoulder while he was wearing the red dog sweater, it's a pet name. He calls her that six times during the Blackwater scene, the author emphasizes it, "Little bird," he said once more. So yeah, big dog has it bad for little bird.

But she is also a warg. He refers to her flying (he is the only one, other than Sansa herself): "flying down the serpentine"... "thinks she has wings"... "now fly away"... "flew away"... And he catches her before she can fall over and over again, then when she's with Sweetrobin (his stand-in for pretend kisses), there's a callback to the rescue, and she's afraid she's going to fall, but she doesn't.

Also, he calls Robb "young wolf"...

He calls the rapists rats:

"Brave? A dog doesn’t need courage to chase off rats. They had me thirty to one, and not a man of them dared face me."

And Boros a toad (the heavy hand on the shoulder thing is yet another thing GRRM borrowed for their story from Jane Eyre, along with little bird, quiet island, moody black horse, burned by fire, ferocity, cheek caressing, manly tears, hearing his voice, giving her his cloak, etc.):

"That one is nothing to fear, girl." The Hound laid a heavy hand on her shoulder. "Paint stripes on a toad, he does not become a tiger."

The Lannisters are lions (after the she-wolf wished for "a lion-killing dog"):

"What’s a dog to do with lions, I ask you?"

And of course, dogs and wolves:

"Do you know what dogs do to wolves?"

And the Stark daughters:

As they were winding their way up the steps, she said, "Why do you let them call you a dog? You won't let anyone call you a knight."

"I wish I had a good mean dog," said Arya wistfully. "A lion-killing dog."

And of course, Lady and the Tramp Hound:

The Hound and Lady "compete" to protect Sansa:

Strong hands grasped her by the shoulders, and for a moment Sansa thought it was her father, but when she turned, it was the burned face of Sandor Clegane looking down at her. Lady moved between them, rumbling a warning.

He does the between move to protect Sansa later:

Sandor Clegane knelt before her, between her and Joffrey. With a delicacy surprising in such a big man, he dabbed at the blood welling from her broken lip.

She thinks about the Hound protecting her, then Lady:

"You mean the Hound," she said... "Is it safe to leave him behind?" She found herself thinking of Lady, wishing the direwolf was with her.

Robert to Ned, just before Lady dies:

"A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did on my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it."

And when Sansa thinks about Lady:

Sansa found herself thinking of Lady again. She could smell out falsehood, she could...

She runs right into Sandor and he says:

"A dog can smell a lie, you know."

Again, she thinks Lady and Sandor is there:

Sansa backed away from the window... "Lady," she whimpered softly, wondering if she would meet her wolf again when she was dead... Then something stirred behind her, and a hand reached out of the dark and grabbed her wrist.

She wishes Lady was there when she dreams of him, too:

Only then he was bigger than Tyrion had any right to be, and when he climbed into the bed his face was scarred only on one side. "I'll have a song from you," he rasped, and Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. "I wish that you were Lady," she said.

[LongRider]

delete

[Le Cygne]

I'm not saying he knows, but he picks up on things indirectly quite often. There's nothing direct about this story. But I think the flying repetition is notable, and he catches her before she can fall, it's almost like she wants to fly, but isn't ready yet. There is, of course, sexual symbolism there, this is all happening when she becomes a woman.