The Riverlands Web V.3

[Le Cygne]

"A wolf with a fish in its mouth," Nymeria finding Catelyn.

She chased them as she had often chased a red deer through the trees, and in the end she ran them down, and her jaw closed around a pale white arm... Rise, she thought. Rise and eat and run with us.

"Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. And... she rose. May the Lord of Light protect us. She rose."

[LongRider]

~~~~snip~~~~

They do not even have to literally kill him themselves, simply exposing his betrayal of everyone will be the end of his power and then the giant is slain because he can no longer decieve anyone which was the source of his success and all betrayed sides and those who suffered during the war he instigated and still suffer in the aftermath will likely want his death.

I'm with you on this fellow reader, I'm a party pooper who doesn't see Sansa killing LF. Instead, hope he makes it to end and loses everything and lives in squalor and poverty, or imprisoned, or suffers forever with leprosy or something. Death is too quick and final for that creep. I want years of remembering what he had, how he lost it and how he'll never climb that ladder of ambition again while he scrounges in the gutter for a crust of bread.

(but I'm not bitter!) LOL

[Le Cygne]

It doesn't have to be a quick death, it can be slow and painful.

[LongRider]

It doesn't have to be a quick death, it can be slow and painful.

Perhaps an introduction to Ramsay Snow can be arranged, I hear he's looking for new best friend.

:blink:

[fellow reader]

Hey, I like all of that! As for the above, maybe the cat will be Arya (she once called herself Cat and warged a cat).

Thank you.

cat=Arya? Not impossible, but not very likely because Arya does not know anything about Littlefingers involvement in her familys downfall.

It would be ironic if Littlefingers object of desire(CATelyn or Sansa(Cat 2)), will cause his end. Be careful what you wish for, Littlefinger!

He's trying to mess with her head, getting her to play this role inside and out. Then there's the touching, undermining her autonomy. It's diabolical, what he's doing to her.

Yes, it is disgusting. He tries to shape Sansa into a submissive tool and the fulfillment of his desires. But she is no longer that naive and has become more wary. She broods about his contradictory actions(not lifting a finger for her<->getting her out of Kings Landing) and is clearly uncomfortable with his advances. For now, she seems to see him as the one who will not deliver her to Cersei, but she actually wants to get away from him(". . . away from Robert's pouts and shakes and runny eyes, away from Marillion's lingering looks, away from Petyr's kisses.") She just has no one to turn to for help of whom she knows she can trust.

Quote

“Especially when we are alone. Elsewise a day will come when a servant walks into a room unannounced, or a guardsman at the door chances to hear something he should not. Do you want more blood on your pretty little hands, my darling?”

Here LF tries to drag Sansa more and more into his crimes like he already did with the hairnet for Joffreys murder and as he used her to frame Marillion for his murder of Lysa. He basically wants that Sansa feels responsible for the murders he commits and tries to instill the thought in her that if she does not play along, he will kill innocents and it will be her fault alone and not his. He tries to strengthen his control of her that way and entangles her in his plots in order to make it impossible for her to get away from him because everyone would see her as his accomplice or even the sole offender.

We can just hope that Sansa will continue to be on guard and not forget Lysas "mad ramblings".

Littlefinger thinks he knows how he can manipulate everyone "Everyone wants something, Alayne. And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him." He thinks the same about Sansa, so he promises her what he thinks she wants, a handsome knight(Harry the Heir) and being a lady and going home(Winterfell). He also tries to take advantage of her naivety by masking his advances as fatherly affection and trying to groom her into his lover. But he does not know everything about her. She started to share a certain someones opinion of knights "the Hound hated knights … I hate them too, Sansa thought."; she almost became a rape victim and and his "fatherly affections" remind her of that("He sounded almost like Marillion"), so she knows that something is not right here; and she is aware of the fact that those who want to marry her actually want her claim to Winterfell and do not love her. He also does not know that she already has a few romantic feelings towards this certain someone, no one knows about that, no one would even think about that possibility. She remembers his words: "A dog can smell a lie, you know, the Hound had told her once. She could almost hear the rough rasp of his voice. Look around you and take a good whiff. They’re all liars here, and every one better than you.". And she already acted accordingly(partially) in regards to Littlefinger: "He is serving me lies as well, Sansa realized. They were comforting lies, though, and she thought them kindly meant. A lie is not so bad if it is kindly meant. If only she believed them…". Unfortunately she still tries to convince herself that the lies are just for her benefit, but at least she has detected them and feels some doubt about his intentions.

[fellow reader]

I'm with you on this fellow reader, I'm a party pooper who doesn't see Sansa killing LF. Instead, hope he makes it to end and loses everything and lives in squalor and poverty, or imprisoned, or suffers forever with leprosy or something. Death is too quick and final for that creep. I want years of remembering what he had, how he lost it and how he'll never climb that ladder of ambition again while he scrounges in the gutter for a crust of bread.

(but I'm not bitter!) LOL

I hope he will be hunted like an animal throughout Westeros, beyond the Narrow Sea and further. He should run, he should feel the pursuers and constantly fear for his life wherever he runs. There should be no hiding place, no one he can trust, no money to spend, only an enormous bounty on his head. And if he is so completely worn-out that he simply cannot go on anymore, then they should get him and drag him back to the capital to be very painfully executed before a cheering crowd. Even that might not be enough to be a proportionate punishment for all the immeasurable suffering of countless innocents he has caused. Yes, that is cruel, but it is no more than he has inflicted on many others.

[Le Cygne]

He also does not know that she already has a few romantic feelings towards this certain someone, no one knows about that, no one would even think about that possibility.

Funny as hell when LF tells her young girls are happiest married to older men, then she places the Hound in the marriage bed because of how he'd kissed her. Oh snap.

[Booknerd2]

Post Question#13: The Orphanage: The Arya Stark Checkpoints, The Tarth Traveller, and One Pissed Off Bull

I remember the first time reading book 4 and how certain events went down with my favorites/Webbers, and how much has changed for me since then with re-reads, research, and the quote that rocked.

Well, the Bull is a complete asswipe to Brienne, that hasn’t changed. I was horrified that Sandor was dead. EB is telling Brienne that the Hound is dead, but as discussed in my Sandor post question, a light of hope came shining through. Dial A Dork tipped me off about the Gravedigger, I looked up stuff on the forums and explored and discovered more regarding how the GD might not be what it seems at first, quick glance. Lightened my load, I can tell you that much.

But that didn’t help that one of my favorite characters Gendry is being a complete tool at the Inn. And I had been pondering this too: Brienne has been going everywhere, all over the place, and where is the pay off? Even a little bit. At that point, the GD theories had been revealed to me, so that made sense. That was a big help, and probably for the future too, I was starting to see that the travelling was not for nothing. She travelled there to show us Sandor is there. Stranger is alive and kicking and wants out. And EB and the Septon, now I know there are theories about them too, and I am hoping they have been or could be useful outlets for Webbers and information exchanges. And we’ve even talked about that already.

People are looking for Sansa, that much was clear to me, Sandor is alive and that is good to know, but what about Arya and Gendry? We’ve seen Arya and Sansa so that is no problem, but then after not seeing him since book 3, we get this small snapshot of him in book 4.

And it sucks. I have my great Wolf Pack memories going back to book 1 and going through 2 and 3. Hot Pie and Lommy picking on Arya. Yoren yelling stuff out, he is tough and admirable yet he cracks me up with his “seen it all,” I-don’t-give-a-crap attitude, and trying to keep this motley group in line. Rorge and Biter and Jacket Cigar locked up for God knows what. And it starts. Gendry defends Arya. She puts Hot Pie in his place and hangs out more with Gendry. A friendship blossoms on the road. Lommy and Hot Pie lighten up and soon all is okay with Arya and Gendry. He won’t start in with Arya again, and Gendry (it is unspoken) if they don’t leave Arry alone….he won’t be bothering with them either. OR he will be bothering them right back.

The Gold Cloaks, the fire, Yoren dying, the group narrowing until you only have Hot Pie, Gendry, Arya, and Lommy. Gendry is dealing with not knowing who he is or why he is wanted. The big trust issue comes up, and Arya is forced to admit she is a girl. He never tells a soul. Poor Weasal is out; Lommy dies. They go to Harrenhal, Jacket Cigar appears and they escape. They were taken by the BWB, and all that entails… Hot Pie leaves to go bake. Only he can make being a pain in the ass charming. And the Wolf Pack dynamics are some of the funniest and most moving scenes in the series for me; Acorn Hall, the Peach, the appearance of Edric Dayne. And then it’s over when Arya is then taken by the Hound and the last two of the Wolf Pack separate.

So Brienne had shown up with Meribald and Dog, Hyle and Pod, right into the BWB camp. Gendry has a massive attitude problem. The Spoon Whacker is yelling and there are a bunch of orphans running around. Brienne makes an Arya allusion to herself. I am truly shocked. Mostly, she is always asking for Sansa more or thinking of her.

Then they go into eat. Gendry refuses to eat and goes to the forge. Hyle throws out a Heddle and Gendry marrying reference. Brienne takes some food and brings it to Gendry who still won’t eat and is acting like an ass and even insults her. She then brings it up, the reveal that is disrupted. She starts asking him about himself. And then the battle royale starts when they hear people and it is the nasty Rorge and Biter, who scared the crap out of me the whole time they were with Yoren. I feared they’d hurt the Pack. And they are just scary any time they appeared.

And it really sucks. The cliffhanger… He still doesn’t get told who he is. She will mention it again as she recovers in bed. Still won’t happen….so it is still hanging. But they had gone outside to tussle with Rorge and Biter, who both end up dead by Gendry and Brienne. Gendry saves Brienne and stabs Biter with a spear to the neck.

And that kicks off Brienne’s next move. All is on hold because she has to face Lady Stoneheart. Gendry is still giving her attitude beforehand and Thoros is giving his disgruntled worker bee speech. Thoros sounds like he just broke up with someone. It’s not the same…it’s different…it changed…we don’t know ourselves anymore…

So, I had to ask myself? Why? What was this for? This….is just depressing. Everybody is pissed off and/or disillusioned in the whole chapter. And then I dwell on it more, and it gets even more depressing.

No Sansa. They don’t even have a clue what is up with her. How can they find her? Arya…arghhh….not happening. She is in Essos. Sansa has been brought up more. No one even cares. No one is asking. No one even brings her up. We are at book 4, I read 5 too. This was me re-reading parts of 4 now again. Everyone is so far apart. I missed my fun scenes. All the Wolf Pack, Sandor and Arya… Stranger and Big Nyms make only cameos too. I’ve been reading and reading….I need a bit more hope than this, a little something to raise the spirits here. Where is it?

And what happened to the Bull? He is like another person. Before Brienne can even get a comment out he flies off the handle and jumps down her throat nastily. He is a friggin’ basketcase! What the hell is the problem? He was not like that on the road? And when I finish the chapter, I am like: Holy crap, he really is still upset about Arya.

And his being upset gets me rankled. And why does nobody care for Arya? Don’t even bring it up. She was taken in the rain and dead of night suddenly.

It took time but I started to realize…Oh…..er….I think I just fell into the trap.

Tension-building. Saying more by saying nothing. A few key things in the right moment. Omission….I just did what I was supposed to do as an interactive reader. I went off on a tear with questions rambling, as I expected to do. I was supposed to ask these questions, and I just did. Who is the basketcase now?

So I go back and notice a few things.

-He is “off” and not himself.

-The theme of duplication/Arya stand-ins. The over-hanging, black cloud ever present in the chapter: “If you are not Arya, then you really are not Arya.”

-Arya’s looks and not dying at Saltpans is brought up.

-Arya is brought to our minds, the verbal photobomb from Brienne’s thoughts, but nobody mentions her out loud. It hangs in the air, over the place though, to me. Even the barroom brawl blood, we know she was there too, for sure; they may or may not.

-Rorge and Biter show up – Gendry and Arya had to deal with those two maniacs all the way back from book 1 with Yoren. Gendry kills one. Done. Brienne had killed one too.

-The third one in the carriage, with the two maniacs above, was Jaqen. He is gone. But Arya is where she is because Jaqen is the third guy in the closed wagon with Rorge and Biter initially. She is with the FM and nobody knows this and it sucks.

So what is the point of running around with a bunch of small children, a pissed off Gendry, no one else from BWB is around, no LS? Brienne and shy Pod, with Hyle who gave the most godawful/pathetic marriage proposal and then the worst half-hearted consolation prize/making out proposition ever, a septon who used to live it up, and a mangy dog? What the hell is going on? What is this? It is a whole chapter!

So I had my own quest. I kept looking around. I felt like a black hole and very empty reading this. I have to be missing something. What is with all this meandering? Well I was wrong about QI, there has to be something here too. It’s me. I’m not getting something. It is just too much time and effort; something is missing or not connecting for me. I just had that feeling, and I felt it with other stuff in 4 too, that now I can’t believe I never noticed. And then I had my grief. That Brienne always brings up Sansa more. These fools are hanging out here, and Arya is training to be a mystery assassin killer like Jaqen, so very far away from it all.

DOES ANYONE….GIVE A CRAP ABOUT ARYA ANY MORE? I can’t take it anymore. Gendry is a mess. He is just baby-sitting and making stuff. He was working on a sword both times in the forge, is in like a rush to get out there and do his knightly stuff. Everyone is off doing God knows what. Who knows where LS is. Can they at least do something!!!! Not to give up hope? At least try….there’s no body, look into it, PEOPLE!

Then I was skimming one day and I found this:

“I'm sure he has already told her. That's why they're bringing all the orphans to the inn. They're trying to find Arya.” Quote by Bloodsteel Bitterraven.

Drop the mike. The needle scratches the record.

What? WTF?

And the heavens opened, the heavenly clouds of hope were there, and the sun came shining through…it made my f!@#$%^ DAY!

Hope is a powerful thing.

And then I felt like a fool. I wasted so much time and it was right under my nose.

So, I basically had read this chapter before and just panicked and wandered that whole place with Brienne, poor Pod, annoying Hyle, a dog named Dog, a Miyagi-like septon, a bunch of unruly kids all over the place, a naked toddler crawling on the table, at an Inn that they don’t make clear if is an inn or not anymore, the Nagging Spoon-Whacker,(who, sorry Hyle, is not marrying the Smith because he is taken down the road and the intended is in Essos trying not to become a brain-washed zombie in Braavos currently. Well, I hope they do. That one is totally on me.), no adults around really, a very awkward tense dining experience, a pissed off Gendry stalking off to a forge where he is being very difficult with Brienne which ended in a fight where a piece of her face gets chewed off, orphans have crossbows, and I was wondering what the hell is going on here. So my worries and doubts that she was being forgotten were all for naught. For nothing….

So I am supposed to feel like Jack Nicholson in “Chinatown.” What seems to be going on is not? Or there is more than meets the eye?

I just had a new world of possibilities open to me. Hope…I cling to hope. I shut my lap top. I sat down, because I had shot up from the couch like a maniac. I took a few deep breaths, held my hands over my eyes, and let it sink in….what a friggin’ relief. Just to have it said…just to have someone articulate a bit of hope…

They have not forgotten. They are not giving up. They realize she could be dead, but they are going to keep trying.

I ran for book 4.

So, we don’t see the smith since book 3. A cameo in 4 and we get a mean robot .But let us back it up.

Gendry and Arya and Edric Dayne. Well, Arya and Edric are talking. Gendry pipes up with attitude and wedges his way into the conversation from time to time, though it appears he doesn’t like the conversation.

Some of the highlights:

Edric: “When I wear my helm, the rain beats against the steal, and gives me headaches,” he complained. “But when I take it off, my hair gets soaked and sticks to my face and in my mouth.”

Gendry:“You have a knife. If your hair annoys you so much, shave your bloody head.”

Damn. This is personal. Outside of the noble thing….it is very petty and stupid. Translation: Shut the hell up, Edric!

Arya tells us that he doesn’t like Ned. Simple statement. She knows right away Gendry doesn’t though, and Edric was so nice and had done nothing. So it was not necessary.

Then:

Edric mentions that not only does he have a House, he is the Lord of Starfall.

“Lords and Ladies,” he proclaimed in a disgusted tone. That would be Gendry.

Then:

A crabapple is launched at a head.

And it went on for very much the same for a bit longer with Gendry trying to get into the conversation but by being an ass. This crap has been going on since after Acorn Hall and the Peach.

Soon, Arya is taken from them by the Hound; their last words were in a huff. Separations suck. It sucks worse when someone is taken and you had words with them just before. Then it supersucks…

A few things to pick out:

-The first thing Brienne hears is Gendry working in the forge before she appears.

-Horsemeat is mostly what they are surviving on. Willow marvels when she sees the Septon has food. She tells Gendry the orphans are hungry. She wants the silver though. Is BWB having a hard time supplying the place? Thoros tells Brienne food is hard to come by. Gendry doesn’t want them to stay, Willow sees money and supplies. They stay.

-Gendry is more pissed at “thieves” and “robbers than anything else. Well, when you have someone taken from you…

-It would be an inn if people come by but they barely do, mostly sparrows, and “others find their way.” Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean…

-Meribald and Brienne notice the “anger and suspicion” in his eyes. Oh, and that he looks like Renly with a few differences. Sadly, she notices that Renly’s eyes had been “warm, and welcoming, full of laughter…”It points out that it is not the case with him.

-I am wondering if he is pissed off too because he is here helping to guard the place and he is an orphan. Seeing the kids struggling for food. Is the BWB helping with his? Lax or too busy? They having a hard time getting supplies too? What I mean is, is the burden on his shoulders mostly? If they are off doing other things, is it mostly his problem? I am not sure, just throwing it out there. Lem was supposed to be there too, but he went off. Thoros did appreciate that Brienne saved them, and what could have been.

-Brienne asks if all these kids are relatives. Willow doesn’t seem to know what is going on. “They’re just…I don’t know…the sparrows bring them here, sometimes. Others find their way. “ How are people finding out about this place? Are BWB members looking about and taking kids in, plus do others know somehow to bring them there? Harwin is not there. Who is checking if it is Arya? Most likely Gendry? LS? Ok, it seems like that might be a hint, with the girl hesitating and not knowing what to say. Either she doesn’t know or she is shutting up about the BWB, and stopped herself from saying too much. I know that I never noticed until this was pointed out to me. Sounds like she is vague because she doesn’t want to tell them too much. Or it could be that.

-Also, I am still suspicious of how much EB and Meribald talk. Meribald knew the two Heddle girls ran the place from EB. I am keeping this in mind down the road if information has to be exchanged character wise between Webbers.

-Brienne reminds us that EB told her that she will not find Sansa around the Trident. Just a gut feel… that he might discuss things with Sandor. He is leading Brienne away. He just met her, doesn’t know her, leading her off?

-Considering the quote from the other day regarding Sandor and Blackfish, Brienne knows too that Lysa is dead and Blackfish is under siege and basically who Sansa’s relations were/are.

-Brienne thinks of Willow and Arya. “Could it be that she did not die at Saltpans after all?” Keep thinking, Sapphires. Now as you sit in the common room to eat, the BWB may be thinking the same thing, and I didn’t know it either.

-Gendry and the orphans and Willow are in the common room with the rest as the food is being unpackaged and prepared. And here it is: Dog goes over to the bloodstains. Sandor’s barroom brawl is brought up. I did get nervous about the remark that it was the first but probably not the last time someone would die there.

Arya is not brought up, of course, but we know damn well that the blood was there too from the Tickler.

-Then the worst marriage proposal in the history of the world takes place. Hyle mentions he is not Renly and only minutes before we read a description in which Brienne is comparing Renly to Gendry. Hyle offers to kiss her…Brienne gets up and leaves after threatening to make him a eunach. LOL!

-Gendry, when they sit down, will not pray or eat. He says he has work to do and leaves to go to the forge. His arms are crossed the entire time. I noticed too that it is raining like when Arya was taken and it was by Sandor, who snuck up like when they are so worried about who arrived at the beginning of the chapter, when it was Brienne and co. I felt bad for him.

-“…beating on a sword as if he wished it were a foe.” Uh, a little more than necessary to form a sword, eh? I am sorry… You word a piece of dialogue like that, you want us to know he is angry. He wants us to know he is angry this entire chapter, meaning every day, all the time, permanently pissed off. She comes to offer him food and he is just terrible to her. Every response he gave to everything out of her mouth was snotty and mean. Just wait for his last word in this chapter, which is the only not snarky one in the entire chapter…just one word. And it links back to Arya.

-He tells her “I’m a knight.” That sword will be mine own, once it’s done.” He counters very quickly after she says,” You’re a bastard.” Taking the knight thing seriously. His last argument and time he saw Arya, Dayne was there and left to do his own thing. Is this was gets the ball rolling here? He really seems to want to be a knight now.

-What would a knight be doing working at a smithy?” A nice “what is going on here” question for the reader from Brienne?

-“A big fat sot he was, but a better king than these sons of his.” Whoah. Wait until you find out! Gendry doesn’t think much of Robert. He has seen him so that may help him understand when it is revealed. He thinks Joff and Tommen suck. LOL!

- The helm arrives. The Hound took Arya. Brienne knows it is not him. Gendry does not know that. But can you imagine what the helm means to him? The day she was taken and they argued and it is right smack back in his face? Sonofabitch! The worst thing to happen to him and he thinks he is back. Maybe even for a moment before he realizes it is the helm and not him, he may even wonder, well, where the hell is Arya? We get this:

“Gendry saw it too.” And all he says out loud to Brienne is: “Him.” That one single word… It is short and simple. Quiet. Like he can’t say the word Hound. It is more moving for me than yelling out a bunch of curses and stuff. It sucked so bad!

Ok, like always, this thing is long. I have more things I noticed and stuff, but let’s wrap it up. I can add that later.

So, what is up with the orpahanage? What do they hope to accomplish? Does EB know about it? Does the Septon tell Brienne the Heddle girls are there, but he really knows it is a BWB thing? He did give all the food to them. Sounds like he was prepared? Did he know the orphans were there already? Anything else stick out for you?

[LongRider]

I reread the Brienne chapters w/Septon M and just could not find in the text that he knows of the orphanage at the Inn. The kids don't know him, neither does Gendry or the BWB apparently. However, as they near the Inn he gives them the history of the Inn and ends saying "The small folk call it the crossroads inn. Elder Brother told me that two of Masha Heddle's nieces have opened it to trade once again." So the EB does know that the inn is 'open' of sorts and must know that is more a an orphanage than an inn.

What he does now know tho', is that a group of outlaws including one wearing the Hound's helm attack the Inn. Brienne kills Rorge, the helm wearer. A bit later the BWB show up and Lem takes possession of the helm. It's mentioned that after the night at the Inn Septon M was planning to head towards Lord Harroway's Town which is going west from the QI and Maidenpool. Of course we don't know if he continued on that way as planned. But he has knowledge from the EB that the Hound is 'dead' and could not have raided the Saltpans so he knows why the helm was there. The raider with the helm is killed and it is passed on to another outlaw.

That the Hound did not raid the Saltpans, well as they say "It is known." and the good Septon M may just be the one who can convince others of this fact.

[Le Cygne]

Well, Gendry did shave, though, or so it seems. He had the bushy Robert beard, and then when Brienne sees him, she mentions stubble...

[Booknerd2]

I reread the Brienne chapters w/Septon M and just could not find in the text that he knows of the orphanage at the Inn. The kids don't know him, neither does Gendry or the BWB apparently. However, as they near the Inn he gives them the history of the Inn and ends saying "The small folk call it the crossroads inn. Elder Brother told me that two of Masha Heddle's nieces have opened it to trade once again." So the EB does know that the inn is 'open' of sorts and must know that is more a an orphanage than an inn.

What he does now know tho', is that a group of outlaws including one wearing the Hound's helm attack the Inn. Brienne kills Rorge, the helm wearer. A bit later the BWB show up and Lem takes possession of the helm. It's mentioned that after the night at the Inn Septon M was planning to head towards Lord Harroway's Town which is going west from the QI and Maidenpool. Of course we don't know if he continued on that way as planned. But he has knowledge from the EB that the Hound is 'dead' and could not have raided the Saltpans so he knows why the helm was there. The raider with the helm is killed and it is passed on to another outlaw.

That the Hound did not raid the Saltpans, well as they say "It is known." and the good Septon M may just be the one who can convince others of this fact.

I think what struck me is that there are a lot of kids. Possibly this has been going on for a bit.

What drives me nuts is how much EB knows, how much Meribald knows, how much collectively and what they have discussed before. What they will know in the future.

Now Meribald ate the oranges. LOL! But damn, he is a septon, ok, it is his job. But that was a lot of food. I could be assuming wrong. Maybe he has enough rations for himself for the journey or at least to the next stop. But he really unloaded a lot. Believe me, it could be my series paranoia. LOL!

That possibility is still there, because Meribald most likely knows more now then he did, going to QI would be interesting.

It still comes back to, Sandor is either going to get news, we do have two men that can give it to him, we don't know how the Jaime/Brienne thing pans out, but they could be a source, or he has the news he checked into Qi with and takes it from there and can only go with that. Meaning, maybe look out for Blackfish.

[Booknerd2]

Well, Gendry did shave, though, or so it seems. He had the bushy Robert beard, and then when Brienne sees him, she mentions stubble...

It probably took all he had to get the will to shave….Joking! LOL!

But as I made the point a million times. Boy ain't right in the head. LOL!

[Le Cygne]

Hey, he wanted to look nice while he was being surly! :lol:

[LongRider]

From what I read Septon M didn't tip his hand about what he may know, but then telling them that the EB told him about the inn may be a sly way telling what he knows. The Inn was an inn when the Hound and Arya fought there, which wasn't that long ago, so the orphanage hasn't been open that long. Lets see, it took Arya several days to ride to the Saltpans from where she left the Hound. The raid was soon after that but how soon? The inn just can't have held the orphans for very long.

[LongRider]

Hey, he wanted to look nice while he was being surly! :lol:

He was just tired of the wee ones pulling on his beard.

[Booknerd2]

From what I read Septon M didn't tip his hand about what he may know, but then telling them that the EB told him about the inn may be a sly way telling what he knows. The Inn was an inn when the Hound and Arya fought there, which wasn't that long ago, so the orphanage hasn't been open that long. Lets see, it took Arya several days to ride to the Saltpans from where she left the Hound. The raid was soon after that but how soon? The inn just can't have held the orphans for very long.

Yes! The bold. That is the gut feel I had. It felt weird. Spit it out, Septon…right now! It sounds like it is a tip for us that they talk. I certainly asked the question: Ok, Guy….what else do you know? What else did you talk to EB about?

And we had EB who is playing middle man. Brienne is there. Sandor is there. And you wonder what the hell goes on when we leave with Brienne as readers?

It is just the desire so much for these people, all the Webbers, to throw a bone. Share information, people! But of course those are literary techniques. As annoying as the Gendry reveal is. It is probably coming….but he is going to make us wait and build up the tension for book 6.

[Booknerd2]

A few miscellaneous thingies:

-What sucks is they can’t ask Rorge where he got the helm from… Lem has it. But maybe the helm is the link. Somehow that can come out through EB saying he placed it on the grave, which could open a can of worms if Sandor is about to jet. Or Meribald can get that through EB if he stops? I like thinking that Meribald is on his way but maybe now with all these events about to blow he sticks around?

Is there any possibility the BWB and LS can trace Sandor back to the QI, connected to the above? I am still thinking of possibilities through Stranger. Pod knows it is Stranger, Pod knows the helm was there as does Brienne and Hyle.

Anyone wonder if Pod and Hyle were questioned/interrogated separately from Brienne and something came up to tip off BWB? I believe Hyle would sing like a canary.

Also, did Brienne, she was sick before and couldn't. Was there time for her to be questioned by them again or talked to before she meets Jaime and she shared info about the helm and other stuff. Offscreen.

I am hoping that as BWB travel and are still questioning people that something will pop for either Sansa, Sandor, Arya being alive, etc.

Where Craven was sold…man, I have to re-read that part and I didn't so bare with me if I am missing something. I wish someone would even say something about the girl walking around with an FM coin. Will the boat people talk? Anyone question them already if they come back? Tavern gossip is like the TMZ of Westeros. That is something I want to look into also. What are the best places to go t? People to ask for past and future leads?

I am still thinking one of the Webbers are going to hit on something and it moves things forward, and that even before book 6, and avenue to answers was in front of us.

Did you see how many kids there are. They are gathering them. Gendry knows Arya was Arry and can pass for a boy. They are all younger than him and closer to her age. But I doubt the BWB will split up kids or not take some that it is unclear but they may be much younger some of them.

[Le Cygne]

He has to get away from that Willow girl and her spoon, too!

This is hilarious:

Inside, the fire crackled, and the common room was filled by the sounds of chewing, and Willow smacking children with her spoon. “One day that little girl will make some man a frightful wife,” Ser Hyle observed. “That poor ’prentice boy, most like.”

Run away, Gendry!

[Booknerd2]

He has to get away from that Willow girl and her spoon, too!

This is hilarious:

Run away, Gendry!

Don't get me started with the Nagging Spoon Whacker. Yeah, Hyle, so he can get nagged the rest of his life?

But it is just funny again, with the "poor 'prenctice boy stuff." The irony again of who his dad really is.

And Hyle…the worst proposer of marriage….ever.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

So, what is up with the orpahanage? What do they hope to accomplish? Does EB know about it? Does the Septon tell Brienne the Heddle girls are there, but he really knows it is a BWB thing? He did give all the food to them. Sounds like he was prepared? Did he know the orphans were there already? Anything else stick out for you?

I think this may be a cog in a bigger machine. The Inn seems to be one of many places the BWB have connections or at least frequent. I don't know, it seems a much larger conspiracy.

Right ok, having done some homework, I think I may have a faint idea what the BWB are up to, sort of, :dunno: , information worth discussing anyway. The BWB has a number of friends/allies in the RL's, as we see in Arya's chapters. Quotes follow.

BWB network of friends

- Arya + BWB meet Lord Lychester : '' Lord Lychester's songs died in Robert's rebellion. '' [ Arya IV , ASOS ]

- When they meet the Lady of the Leaves, Jack-be-Lucky is also with her, and claims he is from Piper lands. '' My father got himself good and hanged by Lord Piper's bailiff '' [ Arya IV, ASOS ]

- When at Acorn Hall, they met Lady Smallwood. '' Lady Smallwood welcomed the outlaws kindly enough '' [ Arya IV, ASOS ]

- They then visit the Stoney Sept. -- Next is the Hound's trial. He is accused of killing people from houses Roote, Charlton and Bracken. The Hound of course refutes these claims.

- They then meet with a guy called Notch, from Goodbrook's village. '' Notch was a stooped man, born in these parts. This was Lord Goodbrook's village '' [ Arya VIII, ASOS ]

- The BWB has also been in contact with the Vance Maester. '' Lord Vance's Maester will know more. '' [ Arya VIII, ASOS ]

So families noted : Lychester, Vance, Roote, Goodbrook, Smallwood, Piper, Bracken and Charlton.

We skip to Jaime at siege of RR, quote : '' Jaime noted all the banners of Lychester and Vance, of Roote and Goodbrook, the acorns of House Smallwood and Lord Piper's dancing maiden ''

-- He then muses about the fact the Brackens are fighting the Blackwood's. The one missing is House Charlton, who are sworn to the Frey's, and probably with their retinue.

While at RR, it's notable to mention that their seems to be prostitutes there. '' Down besides the river, he watched as two washerwoman jousted in the shallows, mounted on top of a pair of men-at-arms. '' [ Jaime V, AFFC ]

Could these hookers be working for BWB ? In the Appendix for AFFC, '' At the Peach, a brothel in Stoney Sept '' They could certainly have connections there, if there was a brothel in Stoney Sept, they certainly visited there. And we know for sure Tom-o-Sevens has infiltrated RR, and the prostitutes seem to be all over that camp as well.

Add to this the BWB killed Merrett Frey, because that leaves the Lordship of House Darry open to marriage. Especially with Lancel leaving and joining the Faith Militant. Could they even be trying to influence the residence of the castles/strongholds in the region ? This could be said for Petyr Pimple as well, but his land was Nightsong in the Stormlands.

So to conclude, after much thought, I get the feeling that, yes, the EB knows what is going on, and he is in cahoots with the BWB. All these little bits of information seem to be there, through Arya's chapters in ASOS. And the knowledge of the Heddle sisters and other RL's info, leads me to believe this only backs this up.

TBH I have more notes, but perhaps not quite relevant to this orphanage conversation, and I am probably missing something, but with this info at hand, I thought it worthy to be included in the Riverland's Web.