The Riverlands Web V.3

[Wizz-The-Smith]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Yeah, I'm impressed! Keep up the great work Wizz! You really add the needed background to the Web.

Thanks LongRider ! Much appreciated.

[Booknerd2]

That was in the Saltpans and soon after the raid and burning happened, so anyone noticing Arya selling Craven, holding an iron coin or looking for ship could be fled, dead or refugeed somewhere. So remembering a stray girl a day or two before all that happened? Probably very low chance of that.

I know. I think that avenue is hopeless. :frown5: I always hope for that one, lone stray traveller that heard or saw something. But you're right. It is on the Webbers to just keep searching and maybe then the info will overlap. In general, Sansa is closer so one day that trail as a higher chance.

I think batgirl appears again, just like the keep looking, she comes back to them maybe.

Later on, when Arya is back after awhile, somehow at the right time it will come out. I fear the Webbers might be waiting longer for her.

I think right now it is just good that they have traced her a bit and feel there is a better chance that she is out there. I think having the orphanage operation sorta speaks for itself. Almost like they are prepared that she could be alive in some way.

[Booknerd2]

Hmmm, Future sweet couple in the Riverlands:

Ser Hyle the Hedge Knight and Nagging Spoon Whacker. Ser Hyle, rejected by the Lady Brienne of Tarth, hangs around the Inn and fights off a raider or two until Nagging Spoon Whacker flowers and agrees to marry him. They run the inn and Ser Hyle, thinking he's so smart, trys to run it into the ground, only to run into an expertly whacked spoon. (a big one!)

So I do post #13 and reiterate how bad Arya getting taken in the night is. After surviving and all they went through, and after an argument, and now Gendry is around the Nagging Spoon Whacker and essentially an extremely overpopulated 24 hour daycare center with only the two Heddles to care for them, and him to guard them.

So after all the crap he's been through Hyle alludes to it being all for the best if just because they are breathing the same air, Heddle would most likely marry Gendry in the future.

Shut up, Hyle! Don't even think about it. Not bloody likely!

But I like that before the reveal this is one of the tiny, morsel tidbits, where outside people, that don't know anything (Hyle) react to how they think things would be likely or how they should be. Again, forcing us to think that is is unlikely he forgot about WolfGirl. It is all over the chapter nuanced.

Hyle has poor judgement with that suggestion, and he has poor judgment suggesting to Brienne that she should marry him.

He is missing the full picture in both cases.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

I like the idea of the some of camp followers and prostitutes being spies for the BWB. Dangerous work in dangerous times, but then, look at what happened to Masha Heddle and her Inn. It would seem that a 'working girl' in that situation could appear and disappear w/o many being the wiser. Also, Tom O' Sevens has infiltrated RR and I wonder how many of the camp follower spies are there as well.

Lord Emmon Frey has his hands full and doesn't even know it! :lol:

Indeed ! The more I look, the more I find on who the BWB are seemingly, or perhaps using, and they could potentially have almost all the RL's covered. No doubt there's lots more to find out there. Their network seems larger than I thought.

[Booknerd2]

Just a few super minor tidbits:

-When the noose is cut... up until Brienne meets Jaime. Has she talked to Gendry? She told Jeyne in her sickbed she wanted to, and that got stuck on a cliffhanger as well. I wonder if she she was able to. I even wonder is she was able to talk to Thoros again or anything to move things along happened to benefit when she speaks to Jaime once he goes off with her. That is where we are left off. Total speculation, but maybe she was able to tell Gendry something before she left. Or big things happen when she arrives. Where we left off with everybody in those arcs, I do have a feel the reveal is coming soon. Hell, it has been going on since book 1. And he is not major like Jon Snow or anything, so this should be happening first.

-In hindsight I should have known something was going on with this orphanage thing. I remember thinking: Why are we getting this big domestic scene, all kids, a dinner. I still can't word it how I want to, but something didn't feel right to me as I looked for why, why am I being shown this? And true, it shows how the war affects the small folk and innocent children, but it seemed something more was going on to.

-EB knows more about what is going on, on the outside, than it appears. We are being lulled as he discusses how isolated and quaint QI is, most have a vow of silence, and blah, blah, blah. I think on the other hand Meribald hears many travelling and being on fairly good terms with everyone.

-Going back to the Arya/Gendry/Edric Dayne scene…I think this was ironic. Edric is a noble Gendry is pissed at, not knowing his brother Edric is a noble, or really raised like and amongst them.

-Another thing I noticed with how Gendry is acting at the Inn. Poor guy. How can it heal? It can’t heal everyday that they are looking for her. It is in his face whether he wants it or not. That sucks! How does it not stay fresh for you?

[Wizz-The-Smith]

I know. I think that avenue is hopeless. :frown5: I always hope for that one, lone stray traveller that heard or saw something. But you're right. It is on the Webbers to just keep searching and maybe then the info will overlap. In general, Sansa is closer so one day that trail as a higher chance.

I think batgirl appears again, just like the keep looking, she comes back to them maybe.

Later on, when Arya is back after awhile, somehow at the right time it will come out. I fear the Webbers might be waiting longer for her.

I think right now it is just good that they have traced her a bit and feel there is a better chance that she is out there. I think having the orphanage operation sorta speaks for itself. Almost like they are prepared that she could be alive in some way.

Definitely, it wasn't that long ago that Arya was with them. And it is totally reasonable to think that she may still be somewhere in the region. As you've said, the orphanage has it's purpose during the war, but this would be an obvious place to keep watch for Arya.

And I agree, now Brienne knows that she is out there, it sort of adds some strength to the ''team'' searching for her. And one of the bigger players in the series at that. I did feel better after reading that.

[Booknerd2]

Definitely, it wasn't that long ago that Arya was with them. And it is totally reasonable to think that she may still be somewhere in the region. As you've said, the orphanage has it's purpose during the war, but this would be an obvious place to keep watch for Arya.

And I agree, now Brienne knows that she is out there, it sort of adds some strength to the ''team'' searching for her. And one of the bigger players in the series at that. I did feel better after reading that.

The problem is we don't know what they are thinking and how they piece things together.

1. Some believe that BWB already know that Fake Arya is fake. Harwin is conspicuously absent. But that is for another time. I seriously have hemmed and hawed over Hooded Man for ages, and I think he is my favorite candidate for many reasons. I am not 100% sure, but I like the idea and always thought going way back that for the LS/BWB arc it was mighty convenient to have one member a veteran Winterfell figure. And then a need arises for someone that knows the place and can identify family members, and he could serve that purpose. He even served it when they took the Wolf Pack, because he could accurately id her. So having Harwin already paid off once. Also, how Tom slithered his way into RR, I like the idea that other people go elsewhere on a need to basis and they can infiltrate.

2. Lem has the Hound helm. Everyone thinks the Hound is dead and maybe they surmise she got a chance to get away and he didn't get far with her. It is convenient too for tension that Thoros' fires are currently out of order. If they can somehow piece together that at the barroom brawl Sandor and Arya were fighting people off together, or at the very least a "boy" was helping him and they seemed in cahoots or like cohorts or something, that could speak for itself. Gendry knows she can amazingly pose as a boy and can fight with Needle. We don't know what locals tell them exactly or what they hear from "outpost" people as the case you made for extended help, Wizzie.

3. BWB had taken his gold winnings. He was pissed! I think they have an idea that when Sandor went to the trouble to take her, it is not to hurt her or murder, but to ransom her. They have not heard she was at KL or that anyone found her. I think they have tried to piece together his motivation in coming back, after his trial to certain death, for nothing but to grab her. She is valuable, if she got away, he might not have hurt her. It was no value to him to hurt her. And she was not getting sold to some random person or passerby in the Riverlands. He was looking, they think, for a big noble pay out. His death and hearing no news of her, might tell them he was no successful and she got away. Technically they are right. She did get away unscathed. Little do they know that really he was trying to get her to family and to enter Stark service himself. Also, Gendry more than anyone, knows that she has gotten away from countless impossible situations in the past, and that might give him a little faith and hope too.

4. Sonofbitch! There is just nothing tracing her to Braavos, which is why story wise she probably has to come back to them.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

The problem is we don't know what they are thinking and how they piece things together.

1. Some believe that BWB already know that Fake Arya is fake. Harwin is conspicuously absent. But that is for another time. I seriously have hemmed and hawed over Hooded Man for ages, and I think he is my favorite candidate for many reasons. I am not 100% sure, but I like the idea and always thought going way back that for the LS/BWB arc it was mighty convenient to have one member a veteran Winterfell figure. And then a need arises for someone that knows the place and can identify family members, and he could serve that purpose. He even served it when they took the Wolf Pack, because he could accurately id her. So having Harwin already paid off once. Also, how Tom slithered his way into RR, I like the idea that other people go elsewhere on a need to basis and they can infiltrate.

2. Lem has the Hound helm. Everyone thinks the Hound is dead and maybe they surmise she got a chance to get away and he didn't get far with her. It is convenient too for tension that Thoros' fires are currently out of order. If they can somehow piece together that at the barroom brawl Sandor and Arya were fighting people off together, or at the very least a "boy" was helping him and they seemed in cahoots or like cohorts or something, that could speak for itself. Gendry knows she can amazingly pose as a boy and can fight with Needle. We don't know what locals tell them exactly or what they hear from "outpost" people as the case you made for extended help, Wizzie.

3. BWB had taken his gold winnings. He was pissed! I think they have an idea that when Sandor went to the trouble to take her, it is not to hurt her or murder, but to ransom her. They have not heard she was at KL or that anyone found her. I think they have tried to piece together his motivation in coming back, after his trial to certain death, for nothing but to grab her. She is valuable, if she got away, he might not have hurt her. It was no value to him to hurt her. And she was not getting sold to some random person or passerby in the Riverlands. He was looking, they think, for a big noble pay out. His death and hearing no news of her, might tell them he was no successful and she got away. Technically they are right. She did get away unscathed. Little do they know that really he was trying to get her to family and to enter Stark service himself. Also, Gendry more than anyone, knows that she has gotten away from countless impossible situations in the past, and that might give him a little faith and hope too.

4. Sonofbitch! There is just nothing tracing her to Braavos, which is why story wise she probably has to come back to them.

1 ] Harwin is definitely an option. I have suggested Robbett Glover before now, but do not have enough in depth knowledge on it to deny any suggestion. And the [f]Arya id would make sense. Tom being the only member on some sort of infiltration mission is unlikely, good point.

2 ] Lem is an interesting character, perhaps a look into his motivations and the theories about him down the line would be good. Nice point about them piecing together what happened at the Inn, this may well help them figure it out. And Thoros with his fires would have been ideal at this time, damn it ! As for the locals or outpost people, as you suggest, the information they might be getting from these people could be vital. As much info and help as possible please.

3 ] I agree with everything you put here.

4 ] Yeah, I still feel the North or KL are more likely. So she would have to go to them.

One thing I thought about, Saltpans was mentioned and discussed up thread, and I agree with all the points made. [ Peasant girl going unnoticed etc ] Was the coin mentioned ? Could that be a clue they could hear ? A child appearing with a FM coin could well be a point of conversation. I'm not sure if anyone else around was privy to the deal they struck, or even if they would understand what it meant. And will the Braavosi sailor return to Westeros ? Maybe an opportunity to have him interact with some characters. But anyway, certain members of the pack would I think realise that was probably Arya if armed with such info.

TBH I think that is highly unlikely, but thought I'd throw it out there. :dunno:

[Booknerd2]

1 ] Harwin is definitely an option. I have suggested Robbett Glover before now, but do not have enough in depth knowledge on it to deny any suggestion. And the [f]Arya id would make sense. Tom being the only member on some sort of infiltration mission is unlikely, good point.

2 ] Lem is an interesting character, perhaps a look into his motivations and the theories about him down the line would be good. Nice point about them piecing together what happened at the Inn, this may well help them figure it out. And Thoros with his fires would have been ideal at this time, damn it ! As for the locals or outpost people, as you suggest, the information they might be getting from these people could be vital. As much info and help as possible please.

3 ] I agree with everything you put here.

4 ] Yeah, I still feel the North or KL are more likely. So she would have to go to them.

One thing I thought about, Saltpans was mentioned and discussed up thread, and I agree with all the points made. [ Peasant girl going unnoticed etc ] Was the coin mentioned ? Could that be a clue they could hear ? A child appearing with a FM coin could well be a point of conversation. I'm not sure if anyone else around was privy to the deal they struck, or even if they would understand what it meant. And will the Braavosi sailor return to Westeros ? Maybe an opportunity to have him interact with some characters. But anyway, certain members of the pack would I think realise that was probably Arya if armed with such info.

TBH I think that is highly unlikely, but thought I'd throw it out there. :dunno:

The bold. That is what I was hoping too. People talk. Taverns are like TMZ. It seems like they are covering all bases. We see Tom ask about the Hound and a boy. They are collecting orphans. They are traveling about and sending some of their own out, and checking in with possible informant/harborers they seem to be cool with. Maybe they do hit on something.

I doubt everything falls into perfect place, but just due to news, fear of the war and people being suspicious of people and things, things are said. Arya still interacted with quite a few from the time she left the Hound, sold Craven, and got on the boat to Braavos. Even she travelled around before that with Sandor a lot. I am sure they did or will hear a few things. Enough to think that possibly she isn't dead but to keep looking.

[Karmarni]

@booknerd2 - this is good and your point is valid for more than just this example. We know that GRRM tries to hide the 'workings' of the story (think the clockwork parts in a case) while we continue looking at the time. But the clockworks are there. Oz behind the curtain. And in plenty of AFfC chapters, heck maybe the whole book, given that most everyone's in hiding, we are being lulled to sleep by the song he's singing but not seeing the musicians playing it. Damn, that was way too long an explanation!

-EB knows more about what is going on, on the outside, than it appears. We are being lulled as he discusses how isolated and quaint QI is, most have a vow of silence, and blah, blah, blah. I think on the other hand Meribald hears many travelling and being on fairly good terms with everyone.

Also, unless Brienne tells everyone, they are only seeing the Hound's helm passed around, they don't know that Sandor's 'dead'.

Meribald also hears confessions. Nice way of gaining lots of info.

[Booknerd2]

Thanks Karmarni!

I see it like EB has info (he's with Sandor)

Meribald has info from all over and we don't know how much he and EB talk, if they do.

EB might know about BWB, I don't know about LS though, the orphanage, and what goes on with them. I think that it is important that he had that background and understand knights, wars, and all that stuff. He might be relatable to Sandor.

Brienne met/talked with EB and travelled with Meribald and they saw first hand the BWB/LS and the stuff going on.

Somehow some news, info, or people may be an outside link to Sandor. He now either knows to different degrees or has seen all of the above.

All know of the helm. Brienne is the one who was told he was dead. I would think to that just by it being off Sandor's head literally the rest may have even believe that and know most likely if some lucky sonofabitch got it off his head, most likely Sandor is dead.

They would be wrong, but like I said above, they may deduce that he was not successful selling Arya to any lord. That would have gotten out most like, so there is a better chance she is alive. More on Gendry's part. He knows damn well how capable Arya is of getting herself out of tight spots. I would even say LS and some of BWB may think she is a little girl still and the odds are less.

To be a fly…to be a fly on the wall when LS woke up and the next days when everyone she either spoke, asked questions, or they told her things. Gendry could fill her in way back before the BWB. He is the only one that can know that since Hot Pie is baking it up at another inn. His time with her goes furthest back of anyone.

Also, I was thinking that I got an eerie feeling. Brienne shows up with Jaime and we don't know what is going on in her head. We know what she tells him. We don't know what she is shooting for or where her mind is at. And I am wondering if when the noose got cut, words were exchanged with her or anyone there before she met Jaime. I am sure she got grilled before she left. I even wonder if she was able to tell anything to Gendry, or she is holding on it due to the circumstances.

[LongRider]

The EB tells Brienne about Arya "...She may have been among the children slain at the Saltpans." and "I am certain that the child was with Sandor Clegane at the inn besides the crossroads...I am certain they were on their way to Saltpans."

When Sandor and Arya were at the Inn Sandor asked Poliver if there were any ships at Saltpans. There's the clue for the BWB. If the innkeeper and others in the Inn heard Sandor ask about the Saltpans then they heard him ask about the ships.

edt: Because others at the Inn could of heard Sandor ask about ships, the EB has cover if it was Sandor himself who told him.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

The EB tells Brienne about Arya "...She may have been among the children slain at the Saltpans." and "I am certain that the child was with Sandor Clegane at the inn besides the crossroads...I am certain they were on their way to Saltpans."

When Sandor and Arya were at the Inn Sandor asked Poliver if there were any ships at Saltpans. There's the clue for the BWB. If the innkeeper and others in the Inn heard Sandor ask about the Saltpans then they heard him ask about the ships.

edt: Because others at the Inn could of heard Sandor ask about ships, the EB has cover if it was Sandor himself who told him.

Great work LongRider ! You're right, there's the clue. That's the best option for BWB so far I think, if indeed GRRM goes down this road.

[Le Cygne]

Taverns are like TMZ.

:lol:

Harrenhal... held by Bonifer Hasty... what an uptight dude. He was really nasty about Pia (Jaime calls him Baelor Butthole!), and then there was this:

"Can you hold Harrenhal with just your Holy Hundred?" Jaime asked...

"I anticipate no difficulty. The Crone will light our way, and the Warrior will give strength to our arms."

Or else the Stranger will turn up for the whole holy lot of you...

He was sober, just, and dutiful, and his Holy Eighty-Six were as well disciplined as any soldiers in the Seven Kingdoms, and made a lovely sight as they wheeled and pranced their tall grey geldings. Littlefinger had once quipped that Ser Bonifer must have gelded the riders too, so spotless was their repute.

All the same, Jaime wondered about any soldiers who were better known for their lovely horses than for the foes they’d slain. They pray well, I suppose, but can they fight? They had not disgraced themselves on the Blackwater, so far as he knew, but they had not distinguished themselves either...

Harrenhal must be held, though, and Baelor Butthole here is the man that Cersei chose to hold it...

"Every man who holds this castle seems to come to a bad end..."

"If you will forgive my saying so, they were not godly men, as we are. The Warrior defends us, and help is always near, if some dread foe should threaten. Maester Gulian will be remaining with his ravens, Lord Lancel is nearby at Darry with his garrison, and Lord Randyll holds Maidenpool. Together we three shall hunt down and destroy whatever outlaws prowl these parts. Once that is done, the Seven will guide the goodfolk back to their villages to plow and plant and build anew...

"If it is Sandor Clegane that we encounter, what would you have me do?"

Pray hard, Jaime thought, and run.

This is like an accident waiting to happen. Baelor Butthole is doomed.

Also, thinking of Harrenhal and fires, Bonifer sounds like bonfire.

[LongRider]

"Can you hold Harrenhal with just your Holy Hundred?" Jaime asked...

Or else the Stranger will turn up for the whole holy lot of you...“If it is Sandor Clegane that we encounter, what would you have me do?”

Pray hard, Jaime thought, and run.

What would bring Sandor to Harrenhal?

[Le Cygne]

I added another part, sorry. He said they would hunt down outlaws. What a pompous ass...

[Booknerd2]

The EB tells Brienne about Arya "...She may have been among the children slain at the Saltpans." and "I am certain that the child was with Sandor Clegane at the inn besides the crossroads...I am certain they were on their way to Saltpans."

When Sandor and Arya were at the Inn Sandor asked Poliver if there were any ships at Saltpans. There's the clue for the BWB. If the innkeeper and others in the Inn heard Sandor ask about the Saltpans then they heard him ask about the ships.

edt: Because others at the Inn could of heard Sandor ask about ships, the EB has cover if it was Sandor himself who told him.

This is great. I forgot this. All info that pieces together is good. They can look into it if it hit a chord. But, I am bad with this. How many places besides Braavos do those ships go to. Any logistical/geographical stuff for this series I am horrendous, and I have to look up. Thank God for the appendices, the wiki, and the app!

What I am thinking too is how strongly they would consider this, because if the helm is on Lem and if Brienne tells them that she saw it on the QI with the grave, they may want to question EB about what he knows, or they will think that Sandor and possibly Arya never got on ships too. Unless…Sandor tells them that she left him and he has no idea where she was going.

There are so many things people can think! Ugh!

[LongRider]

This is like an accident waiting to happen. Baelor Butthole is doomed.

Sandor and Stranger's excellent smiting adventure! Now with more smiting! Watch your ears.

[Booknerd2]

Ah, Harrenhal. So many of the majors characters have been there, let alone the Riverlands.

It is always interesting due to Haren not inhabiting very long, the bad fortune that befalls anyone who attempts to hold it, etc.

But I can't believe those quotes. That is like two Sandor name drops in one piece. He is associated with the Stranger and that is the horse we love.

Perhaps if Sansa for some reason has to go there? LF? Anything else?

Also, I would not be surprised we see Harrenhal again. The Wolf Pack spent a lot of time there too. I am sure some of the Webbers will visit the same places again, at least a few, before the series ends.

But as far as reasons or whatever, not sure.

[LongRider]

This is great. I forgot this. All info that pieces together is good. They can look into it if it hit a chord. But, I am bad with this. How many places besides Braavos do those ships go to. Any logistical/geographical stuff for this series I am horrendous, and I have to look up. Thank God for the appendices, the wiki, and the app!

What I am thinking too is how strongly they would consider this, because if the helm is on Lem and if Brienne tells them that she saw it on the QI with the grave, they may want to question EB about what he knows, or they will think that Sandor and possibly Arya never got on ships too. Unless…Sandor tells them that she left him and he has no idea where she was going.

There are so many things people can think! Ugh!

Gendry might be all grumpy because Arya could be on a ship to...where? Out of Westeros so would the where matter? If she got on a ship she's gone. So he doesn't know. But nothing is confirmed, not her dead at the Saltpans, not on a ship, not running around the Riverlands. And every day she's gone she's farther away from him.

And he knows it.