German Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tywin Lannister I would like to second this, Tywin is one of the 2 best generals of his time, Robb being the other. We cannot say which of the two is better as we unfortunately never got to see the two go head to head. However not only does Tywin know how to win battles, he is also amazing strategist and politician not to mention arguably the most successful leader of his day shaping the world he lived in. This of course is not to say that he didn't make some serious blunders in his lifetime but he took his house from rock bottom to a place as the most powerful house in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I would like to second this, Tywin is one of the 2 best generals of his time, Robb being the other. We cannot say which of the two is better as we unfortunately never got to see the two go head to head. However not only does Tywin know how to win battles, he is also amazing strategist and politician not to mention arguably the most successful leader of his day shaping the world he lived in. This of course is not to say that he didn't make some serious blunders in his lifetime but he took his house from rock bottom to a place as the most powerful house in Westeros. I think Robb may have grown into a better commander than Tywin given time, but he died too soon (largely due to his own actions). But beware, lots of people react negatively to any praise of Tywin's abilities. Especially in warfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think Robb may have grown into a better commander than Tywin given time, but he died too soon (largely due to his own actions). But beware, lots of people react negatively to any praise of Tywin's abilities. Especially in warfareTywin certainly was a first class general. One must give him that, even while acknowledging his crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Presumably Aegon I and his sisters deserve inclusion. They did after all conquer, and hold, most of a continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Presumably Aegon I and his sisters deserve inclusion. They did after all conquer, and hold, most of a continent. Due to the manner in which they did the conquering, I would chalk it up more to political aptitude than great generalship. Not to say that they weren't good commanders, but IMO the Conquest wasn't as much of a showcase of their martial skill as it was for those other things. They also had dragons, which won most of their battles for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBlackfyre Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 They were not the best commanders without dragons they lost many of the real battles of the conquest, ie against the arrayn navy. They won because of superweapons that no one could oppose not out of any great strategy. The only time they needed strategy they were outwitted and beaten by dorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think Robb may have grown into a better commander than Tywin given time, but he died too soon (largely due to his own actions). But beware, lots of people react negatively to any praise of Tywin's abilities. Especially in warfare So I have found. It seems all Lannisters are doomed to be seen in the least positive light possible. What a shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't have any problem with praising Tywin, but my personal problem with naming him 1 of the best commanders, which I've mentioned before, is that when Tywin brought out his armies at the end of GOT, he was looking at the biggest longshot ever and could not have foreseen the events that allowed him to temporarily triumph. Had Lysa Tully joined her own family(which Tywin assumed she would) Tywin would have been screwed. Had Stannis not acquired magical assassins which no 1 in westeros thought existed then Renly would have steam rolled anyone with his 100k army. While Tywin did manage to pull off a temporary win with some great strategizing, I tend to think he took an outrageous risk that he had no right to think would pay off. That being said, he certainly curb stomped the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 They were not the best commanders without dragons they lost many of the real battles of the conquest, ie against the arrayn navy. They won because of superweapons that no one could oppose not out of any great strategy. The only time they needed strategy they were outwitted and beaten by dorneBut, the thing is, they won the war, and they won the peace (Dorne excepted). They used their WMD's to maximum effect, and then showed enough tact and shrewdness to hold on to their gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't have any problem with praising Tywin, but my personal problem with naming him 1 of the best commanders, which I've mentioned before, is that when Tywin brought out his armies at the end of GOT, he was looking at the biggest longshot ever and could not have foreseen the events that allowed him to temporarily triumph. Had Lysa Tully joined her own family(which Tywin assumed she would) Tywin would have been screwed. Had Stannis not acquired magical assassins which no 1 in westeros thought existed then Renly would have steam rolled anyone with his 100k army. While Tywin did manage to pull off a temporary win with some great strategizing, I tend to think he took an outrageous risk that he had no right to think would pay off. That being said, he certainly curb stomped the Riverlands. I don't think Tywin is #1, and he clearly isn't responsible for" winning" the War of 5 Kings (though he deserves credit for surviving the doomsday situation he found himself in at the end of AGOT). I just think he displays excellent judgement and decision-making in the field. Take the "longshot" you describe, for example. Tywin was not out itching for a fight with all of Westeros - rather, he realized that such a fight was inevitable and chose to strike first. He had no choice. Once Robert was dead and Ned arrested for treason, the Starks/Tullys became the Lannister's enemies. He also knew that Stannis was a threat to his grandchildren. Rather than wait for all these factions to join forces and create an unstoppable force to depose Cersei and her children, Tywin took out the Tullys before the Starks could march South, giving himself a good geographic position. Then Robb's clever ploy, combined with Joffrey's idiocy, fucks it all up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tywin certainly does not lack for experience. I noticed all the old geezers from the novels got their experience in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. :PBut I don't Tywin has that brilliance that Robb seems to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tywin certainly does not lack for experience. I noticed all the old geezers from the novels got their experience in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. :P I'd like to see a teenage Tywin and Blackfish bro-ing it up, fighting Blackfyres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I don't think Tywin is #1, and he clearly isn't responsible for" winning" the War of 5 Kings (though he deserves credit for surviving the doomsday situation he found himself in at the end of AGOT). I just think he displays excellent judgement and decision-making in the field. Take the "longshot" you describe, for example. Tywin was not out itching for a fight with all of Westeros - rather, he realized that such a fight was inevitable and chose to strike first. He had no choice. Once Robert was dead and Ned arrested for treason, the Starks/Tullys became the Lannister's enemies. He also knew that Stannis was a threat to his grandchildren. Rather than wait for all these factions to join forces and create an unstoppable force to depose Cersei and her children, Tywin took out the Tullys before the Starks could march South, giving himself a good geographic position. Then Robb's clever ploy, combined with Joffrey's idiocy, fucks it all up Yeah also I am always upset when people blame him for underestimating Robb. To him Robb is a 16 year old pawn who is outnumbered and out led by him and his son. Tywins biggest mistakes are mistaking caring about his family (name) rather than his family (the actual people) and his constant misjudgments in regards to his three children. This partially stems from the death of his wife who seems to have been one of the things most dear to him in Westeros as well as his childhood experiences with weak leadership. This obviously doesn't excuse his actions but may be the reasons behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yeah also I am always upset when people blame him for underestimating Robb. To him Robb is a 16 year old pawn who is outnumbered and out led by him and his son. Tywins biggest mistakes are mistaking caring about his family (name) rather than his family (the actual people) and his constant misjudgments in regards to his three children. This partially stems from the death of his wife who seems to have been one of the things most dear to him in Westeros as well as his childhood experiences with weak leadership. This obviously doesn't excuse his actions but may be the reasons behind them. You should take a look at the Tywin the Commander thread, if you haven't already. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/115331-tywin-the-commander/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I'd like to see a teenage Tywin and Blackfish bro-ing it up, fighting Blackfyres With Ironborn and Northmen and Dornishmen by their side. Man, that must have been weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 You should take a look at the Tywin the Commander thread, if you haven't already. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/115331-tywin-the-commander/ Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Kumar Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I can't help but think that some people are confusing commander with warrior. I think Robb is a fine warrior and a good promising commander but i feel that the blackfish has the greater share of the credit for his victories.Similarly with baelor Breakspear ... While he did lead a fine charge (a superb example of command by a lower ranking officer) as the hammer in the battle of the redgrass the true credit should go to blood raven his first acquiring the high ground and slaying daemon followed by putting an end to the counter charge by bittersteel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Kumar Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Also honorable mention to the rhoynish prince that won 99 battles against the valerians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBlackfyre Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Also honorable mention to the rhoynish prince that won 99 battles against the valerians.. I did mention Garin in the op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 With Ironborn and Northmen and Dornishmen by their side. Man, that must have been weird. Wait, Ironborn were involved in the War of Ninepenny Kings? And the North? Yea, that would have been a sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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