Rhaegar, Lyanna, and the consequences of their actions (assuming it was consensual elopement)

[James Steller]

Do any of you think either of them ever felt a single twinge of remorse for having helped in starting a war which tore Westeros apart and nearly wiped out their families in the process?

And secondly, regardless of whether they might have or not, do you think they should need to feel guilty in the first place? People could argue that Brandon or Aerys would be just as responsible for the war as Lyanna or Rhaegar, while others might point out both of the latter's actions were reactionary to what Rhaegar and (possibly) Lyanna chose to do.

Any thoughts?

[Leonardo]

Lyanna knew what kind of man Robert was and what kind of man her brother was. She was intelligent as was Rhaegar.

I used to think it was probably part of the promise Lyanna made Ned keep. I don't believe if lyanna knew what was happening she would have let things go down like that.

I mean rhaegar was fighting to kill Robert on the trident. Aerys would have had the rebels executed.

There is something very fishy going on with all that and its clear the truth wasn't getting to one or both of them. Likely Rhaegar kept it from lyanna or he was forced to stay. Lyanna would have married Robert if it meant Ned's life, especially after Aerys kills the other two

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Definitely. Especially Lyanna.

Because 23-old Rhaegar was just too plain crazy with his prophecy-obsession to care about the obvious consequences, while 14/15-year-old Lyanna may have experienced a bit of teenager denseness in that regard while she made her bed.

[TallTyrion]

Do any of you think either of them ever felt a single twinge of remorse for having helped in starting a war which tore Westeros apart and nearly wiped out their families in the process?

And secondly, regardless of whether they might have or not, do you think they should need to feel guilty in the first place? People could argue that Brandon or Aerys would be just as responsible for the war as Lyanna or Rhaegar, while others might point out both of the latter's actions were reactionary to what Rhaegar and (possibly) Lyanna chose to do.

Any thoughts?

To be fair Rhaegar wouldn't have know his actions lead to that until a few moments before he died. So not a lot of time for him to feel guilty.

Secondly, Aerys was primarily responsible. Rhaegar's actions were shortsighted and wrong but there's no way they lead to a full blown rebellion without the assistance of the Mad King. So in that sense Lyanna shouldn't feel guilty although she probably did.

[Chaircat Meow]

No, because they were trying to thwart the ambitions of evil scheming Rickard Stark and avert a war. It went wrong of course, but that was not their fault.

[The Wolves]

To be fair Rhaegar wouldn't have know his actions lead to that until a few moments before he died. So not a lot of time for him to feel guilty.

Secondly, Aerys was primarily responsible. Rhaegar's actions were shortsighted and wrong but there's no way they lead to a full blown rebellion without the assistance of the Mad King. So in that sense Lyanna shouldn't feel guilty although she probably did.

Exactly!!!

[Bright Blue Eyes]

No, because they were trying to thwart the ambitions of evil scheming Rickard Stark and avert a war. It went wrong of course, but that was not their fault.

Don't know whether sarcasm or honest opinion...

Exactly!!!

Rhaegar was a complete and utter idiot ignoring realpolitic and his own family history? Ok, he was.

[Wmarshal]

To be fair Rhaegar wouldn't have know his actions lead to that until a few moments before he died. So not a lot of time for him to feel guilty.

Secondly, Aerys was primarily responsible. Rhaegar's actions were shortsighted and wrong but there's no way they lead to a full blown rebellion without the assistance of the Mad King. So in that sense Lyanna shouldn't feel guilty although she probably did.

This requires him to be completely ignorant of his history and the over all reaction post Harrenhal before the kidnapping. I am not seeing he wasn't, or he was, but neither options make him a winner. Robert's great grandpa rebelled because his son's betrothed eloped, it leaves little to wonder what a man called his reincarnation would do when his betroth goes missing with Rhaegar.

Edit: Sorry it was just a daughter.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

You have forgotten Maegor&Visenya against Aenys, the Dance of Dragons and the Blackfyre Rebellions.

[TallTyrion]

This requires him to be completely ignorant of his history and the over all reaction post Harrenhal before the kidnapping. I am not seeing he wasn't, or he was, but neither options make him a winner. Robert's great grandpa rebelled because his son's betrothed eloped, it leaves little to wonder what a man called his reincarnation would do when his betroth goes missing with Rhaegar.

"Short sighted" was a generous term on my part. It was incredibly stupid to run off with Lyanna.

I said short sighted because he may have not have even considered Aerys reaction to a confrontation. Perhaps he was so focusesd on fulfilling the prophecy that he didn't consider the ramification of taking Lyanna.

My main point was the the conflict wouldn't have escalated to the point it did were it not for Aerys being crazy and executing/calling for the death of Ned and Robert.

ETA

In terms of "Rhaegar not knowing what his actions lead to when he died." The OP asked if they felt guilty for starting a war that lead to their families getting wiped out. Rhaegar didn't know that his family would be wiped out untill he was about to die. Since the battle at the Trident was undecided till then.

On the other hand he should have know that a child by Lyanna could lead to a Blackfyre like succession crisis so I'm not excusing his actions in that regard.

[Blazfemur]

The nerve of those two, just, RUINING all of westeros with their sick little games. Poor Aerys never saw it coming

[Bright Blue Eyes]

My main point was the the conflict wouldn't have escalated to the point it did were it not for Aerys being crazy and executing/calling for the death of Ned and Robert.

That may be true - but the civil war between Lyanna and Elia (and their offspring) was coming no matter what.

[Wmarshal]

You have forgotten Maegor&Visenya against Aenys, the Dance of Dragons and the Blackfyre Rebellions.

Yeah, but Lyonel was super duper closer and a exact cope of the man Rhaegar was going to piss off.

[Wmarshal]

"Short sighted" was a generous term on my part. It was incredibly stupid to run off with Lyanna.

I said short sighted because he may have not have even considered Aerys reaction to a confrontation. Perhaps he was so focusesd on fulfilling the prophecy that he didn't consider the ramification of taking Lyanna.

My main point was the the conflict wouldn't have escalated to the point it did were it not for Aerys being crazy and executing/calling for the death of Ned and Robert.

Depends how long it takes him to explain himself, if he waits till Jon is born, Robert probably still rebels.

[TallTyrion]

That may be true - but the civil war between Lyanna and Elia (and their offspring) was coming no matter what.

Agree 100%, I added an edit to clarify.

[Blackfish Tully]

That may be true - but the civil war between Lyanna and Elia (and their offspring) was coming no matter what.

we have no idea if Elia bought into the Prophecy or not .

[TallTyrion]

we have no idea if Elia bought into the Prophecy or not .

Why does that matter?

[joffrey fan]

Rhaegar seems like a douche. He abandoned his wife and kids to run off with a 14 year old girl.

[Shadow Cat 75]

I saw this theory where Rhaegar had "kidnapped" Lyanna in order to save her from his father. I will try to explain the theory the best I can, mean if she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and Rhaegar unmasked her, he would feel the need to protect her as a Knight. So he would keep her serect but his father was mad after all and wouldn't let some unknown knight get the better of him and someone always tells. So what if the King found out that Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and sent men to get her. Rhaegar went to save her and stop a war which would start from the King taking a powerful lord's daughter. He moved her to safty only to have the hot headed older brother storm to Kings Landing and get taken. Lord Stark when he went to King's Landing he only asked for his son not Lyanna so maybe he knew what Rhaegar did, however we all know what happened next when the Mad King killed the Starks and started the war.

[TallTyrion]

I saw this theory where Rhaegar had "kidnapped" Lyanna in order to save her from his father. I will try to explain the theory the best I can, mean if she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and Rhaegar unmasked her, he would feel the need to protect her as a Knight. So he would keep her serect but his father was mad after all and wouldn't let some unknown knight get the better of him and someone always tells. So what if the King found out that Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree and sent men to get her. Rhaegar went to save her and stop a war which would start from the King taking a powerful lord's daughter. He moved her to safty only to have the hot headed older brother storm to Kings Landing and get taken. Lord Stark when he went to King's Landing he only asked for his son not Lyanna so maybe he knew what Rhaegar did, however we all know what happened next when the Mad King killed the Starks and started the war.

If Aerys was after Lyanna the safest place for her would have been back in the North.

And it's not like the Knight of the Laughing Tree, really did anything serious to Aerys so I don't see why finding out it was Lyanna would make him want to kill her. He was crazy so maybe he would have had her executed for that but I doubt it.