Is Cersei trans?

[Dr. Pepper]

:lmao: at the bold. What? You should totally tell us more about black, queer Theon.

I vote this to be LordArryn's next ridiculous topic.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Are you suggesting that white people can't be black? I'm trans-black and I am incredibly triggered right now.

I feel my internet acquired self diagnosed PTSD coming on.

That is not funny.

PTSD are real things that people suffer.

I mean its not out of the question that Theon could have black ancestors. The Summer Islanders have boats, and the Iron Isles have ports, and all it takes is a Greyjoy to fall in love, but if he does have such ancestry, it doesn't show. At least, it isn't stated.

[INCBlackbird]

:lmao: at the bold. What? You should totally tell us more about black, queer Theon.

let me share with you the last argument I had on this (mind you, i've had this argument many times before. there's a surprising ammount of sjw's in the theon fandom on tumblr) :

part 1. : http://incblackbird.tumblr.com/post/101418098056/itslemonentrymydearwatson-pubicles

part 2: http://incblackbird.tumblr.com/post/100717232356/not-doubting-theon-is-bisexual-but-why-do-you-think-so

part 3: http://incblackbird.tumblr.com/post/100781473421

some of the highlights :

"theon really resonates with me. If a chaaracter resonates with me, it is because they are similar to me. I have had a lot of issues with working out my queerness, and I feel like theon shares many of those issues I had."

tag: #they think Theon is stragt and white i cANT BrEAthE

"A lot of it is to do with his relationship with Robb and how feminine he is. I mean he literally wished he’d died with Robb and he never stops going on about him, it’s, uh, pretty intense. His fleeting friendship with Patrek Mallister also didn’t seem all that platonic to me lmao

and yeah he likes jewellery and fancy clothes and gives a lot more thought to his appearance than any straight dude i know :””)

also i’m bi and i read p much any character who doesn’t have a confirmed sexual orientation as bi woops. the text never explicitly says theon’s bi sadly, still two more books tho…"

"if theon greyjoy isn’t bi he’s pan

he’s also a demiboy

and autistic

sorry i didn’t make this character that’s just the way he is"

[INCBlackbird]

That is not funny.

PTSD are real things that people suffer.

I mean its not out of the question that Theon could have black ancestors. The Summer Islanders have boats, and the Iron Isles have ports, and all it takes is a Greyjoy to fall in love, but if he does have such ancestry, it doesn't show. At least, it isn't stated.

well the only reason these people claim that Theon is black is because Bran discribes him as a "lean dark youth" in the first chapter. they don't need more to add Theon to another minority, just like they dont need more then "he likes pretty clothes" to claim him to be bisexual. I still can't believe they don't realise how offensive that is.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I think there is little evidence for it, but that doesn't mean he can't be queer, but those points are not evidence. A character falling into a stereotype is not evidence. I wouldn't rule it out, but I wouldn't make those point my reason.

Oh right. Lean dark youth... It not referring to skin colour.

[INCBlackbird]

I think there is little evidence for it, but that doesn't mean he can't be queer, but those points are not evidence. A character falling into a stereotype is not evidence. I wouldn't rule it out, but I wouldn't make those point my reason.

Oh right. Lean dark youth... It not referring to skin colour.

yeah I mean, the thing is that there is nothing that points towards him being bi (gay is impossible) and there is a ton of evidence that points towards him being straight... as long as there is no evidence for him being bi it's not canon. these people actually consider it canon and think it's ridiculous when someone disagrees... so yeah, I laughed... a lot.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

yeah I mean, the thing is that there is nothing that points towards him being bi (gay is impossible) and there is a ton of evidence that points towards him being straight... as long as there is no evidence for him being bi it's not canon. these people actually consider it canon and think it's ridiculous when someone disagrees... so yeah, I laughed... a lot.

Yeah the only thing I don't like about Tumblr is that sometimes headcanons become thier canon and its like nahhhhhh.

I'm in full support of headcanons but don't try impose them on me. Thats what fanfic is for.

Theon can certainly be queer, but there isn't evidence for it :dunno:

[INCBlackbird]

Yeah the only thing I don't like about Tumblr is that sometimes headcanons become thier canon and its like nahhhhhh.

I'm in full support of headcanons but don't try impose them on me. Thats what fanfic is for.

Theon can certainly be queer, but there isn't evidence for it :dunno:

yep exactly!!! though i'm more bothered by social justice warriors, but they are often the same people anyways ;)

[The King in Black]

Have you ever wondered that there are other people trying to be funny but end up coming across as dicks? That or every successive generation is having a crappy sense of humour.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I go away for months on end and this is what i come back to?

Fandom, why~

Cersei hates women because she resents having been born one. Why? Cuz guys get all the toys to play with. She got butthurt about that, and wanted all the toys for herself. Envious of the male privilege, she sought to curb and control it. She is quite happy with having a pair of teats and a vagina, for that means exerting greater control on what she wants. She orchestrated her betrayals of Robert by denying him true heirs, and thus gained control of the very throne.

Alas, Cersei has made her bed and now must lie in it. But shes a fighter and wont go down easily. Shes got one last move to make...

This is not someone whos transgendered. They are the hallmarks of a bitter narcissist.

[Tantan]

It's probably worth pointing out that Cercei has been cheated by her gender and her anger/ frustration/ budding insanity is understandable. She was born first, but Jaime and even Tyrion are more likely candidates to inherit. She had to wait patiently for Prince Rhaegar to decide whether or not he would marry her. He didn't and even went on later on his own initiative and stole Lyanna. Thus she ended up with Robert - which was a comically sad pairing. Now that she has reproduced and her husband has died, she is functionally useless and has to fight vainly to stay relevant. I think it is fair and natural for her to have a chip on her shoulder because of her position in life. Not to say that sympathy for her is the same as rooting for her to succeed. She's clearly taken a destructive approach to her situation rather than a creative one.

It's also worth pointing out that this is common for our females in the book, but the protagonists all have constructive responses to overcome their situation - which makes them heroes.

e.g. Do you think Robb would have dared ignored advice from Ned the way he did advice from his mother? Someone as tough and idealistic as Brienne would have been knighted and honored long ago if she were a man, etc. These characters are good because they don't give into their anger - not because they don't feel frustrated in the first place.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

No.

[Malik Ambar]

Have you ever wondered that there are other people trying to be funny but end up coming across as dicks? That or every successive generation is having a crappy sense of humour.

The latter

[Taenqyrhae]

I picked up possible gay/bi vibes off of Theon as well. He seemed to have a pretty strong emotional attachment to the friend he had killed considering they only spent a couple of weeks together some time back, and his interactions with females don't seem to have the emotional component his deep relationships to other young males do, so I felt like he might be closeted and over-compensating. I'm pleased to hear that a queer poster got the same impression as me, as they would be a better judge of his suppressed sexuality than myself.

[DreamSongs]

Hmm... I guess she isn't trans after all. You guys have convinced me.

However, if she in fact was, It is possible Qyburn could help "make a man out of her"

This seals it in my mind. LordArryn is a troll.

I Think the main reason why Cercei is so focussed on how much more power and respect being a man would give her is because she grew up looking exactly like her brother. and I maybe wrong about this but didn't they used to switch places when they still looked exactly the same? that would mean that she's gotten a taste of what it would have meant for her to be a man. so she's pretty obsessed with that. like many people have said, it's penis envy.

Penis envy? You do realize that Freudian theory has been widely discredited?

Cersei seems far more resentful of her circumstances than other women because of being a twin. They start off in a nursery together and all things are equal. Then at some point, the inequality rears it ugly head. She is stuck inside learning to be a lady while Jaime has what she perceives as 'freedom'. She is the elder child except Jaime gets everything because he is male. Of course she is resentful.

[INCBlackbird]

I picked up possible gay/bi vibes off of Theon as well. He seemed to have a pretty strong emotional attachment to the friend he had killed considering they only spent a couple of weeks together some time back, and his interactions with females don't seem to have the emotional component his deep relationships to other young males do, so I felt like he might be closeted and over-compensating. I'm pleased to hear that a queer poster got the same impression as me, as they would be a better judge of his suppressed sexuality than myself.

are you serious about this or is your post sarcastic? if you're serious I would like to strongly disagree. Theon spent, as you point out, a few weeks with Benfred Tallhart, how is it weird that he feels bad about killing him? as my friend just said "Exactly! LOL this is definitely one of the dumbest reasons for Theon being gay. He had an emotional response to someone being murdered, oh he must have been gay for that person."

Theon has no relationships beyond having sex with females though, he doesn't get an emotional bond with them because it's not like he can be really together with them. the closest to a relationship he had was probably Kyra. his relationship with Robb was a friendship, it's pretty much the only good relationship Theon has with any one and he has no sexual disires for him whatsoever.

Theon does overcompensate a lot, but it's always clear from the text what he's overcompensating for! narcissism and insecureties ("but I am not weak" Theon told himself), acting tough and being scared (kicking the head of the deserter)... never is there any indication that he is closeted Gay (or bi), if he were it would go through his head at some point, don't you think?

and finally, can I ask you to please not use the word "queer" (unless sarcastically) my best friend is gay, I've had a gay relationship myself and neither of us appreciate this slur being used all the time by sjw (who are btw trying to make discrimination worse just so they can use it to call themselves victims of oppression)

[Goldstag]

[

Another big LOL.

I am unfamiliar with the previous threads........what do* we got**?

*did

**get

[INCBlackbird]

Penis envy? You do realize that Freudian theory has been widely discredited?

Cersei seems far more resentful of her circumstances than other women because of being a twin. They start off in a nursery together and all things are equal. Then at some point, the inequality rears it ugly head. She is stuck inside learning to be a lady while Jaime has what she perceives as 'freedom'. She is the elder child except Jaime gets everything because he is male. Of course she is resentful.

yep, that''s pretty much what I said...

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

Cercei is not trans--her discomfort with being a woman is not based on her body; it is based on the limitations of her gender role.

She also is not a feminist. She never upholds the rights of women everywhere to be whatever they want, nor does she declare feminine values better than patriarchal ones.

Her discomfort with being a woman largely results from internalizing the misogyny of her society; she despises other women and hates herself when she accepts the power of men to determine who she marries and whether she plays a role in government. Her struggle to be "Tywin with teats" is a struggle to reach for the only alternative she knows to being a conventional woman, a role she considers synonymous with helplessness and triviality.

I do have one other suspicion about Cercei's internalized misogyny, but it has too little textual support to be anything but crackpot. Here it is anyway.

It is rare for brothers and sisters to even want to have sex, and when they do they are usually acting out abuse they have suffered from a parent or other significant adult in their life.

So I'm wondering if Tywin ever committed incest with his daughter. A man so obsessed with admiration and power might well have trouble getting it up with a grown woman of equal status, even if they were married and in love. It fits with the theory that Tywin was the Hand who built a secret tunnel from the Tower of the Hand to Chataya's. He could have also sought the wrong kind of love from his admiring little daughter (again, hungry for absolute power and admiration). Children subjected to this kind of abuse can feel extremely ambivalent--Tywin would manipulate Cercei into thinking his abuse made her "loved" and "special," but she would also feel extreme rage and perhaps seduce Jamie to get some sense of control and autonomy. Sexual abuse can produce a dissociative confusion about one's identity--one wonders, "if I were a man instead of a woman (or vise versa), would this not have happened to me?" Abuse can even lead to a shame over one's gender, orientation, or other core part of one's personality because of an inarticulate sense that this quality somehow brought on the abuse.

Abuse can also sow the seeds for narcissism--the need to feel superior, in control, and entitled to power offers and escape from helplessness and feeds a false self-image. A narcissist then clings to this self-image in the face of contradictory information, manipulates those around him/her to confirm it, and developes an intense antipathy toward those who deny it. Narcissism can come from other sources, of course, but I've always thought the "twincest" was one of the least psychologically believable aspects of ASOIAF unless Cercei seduced Jaime to act out abuse she herself had suffered.

Of course, the claim that Tywin committed incest with Cercei is crackpot because there is a profound lack of textual support. It's possible she doesn't remember it (though even then, there would be clues in her inner monologue. Incest survivors often are aware that they are blocking something out of their mind, even if they don't know what--sort of like the Greyjoy brothers' creaking door). Since there have been few, if any, hints that Cercei was abused, the whole causal narrative of the Lannister family dysfunction will probably remain a sketch with important gaps.

Sidenote: the abuser doesn't have to be Tywin. On the show, Jamie told Tyrion that their maester once tried to touch him. Does anyone recall any such remark in the books?

At any rate: Cercie suffers from a lot of internalized misogyny, a ton of narcissism, and possibly the lingering effects of abuse. But she is not a frustrated trans.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

^ Honestly, Tywin may be a bad guy, but I don't think even he would do that to Cersei or any of his kids.