mindcrash Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I have no problems with the names being used by GRRM but the fact that he placed them all in the one family did detract from the sense of this being a history. This part felt like reading a high school essay where the author was trying to be a smart arse by trying to slip in silly names to annoy the teacher. House Tully has enough detractors without it seeming like GRRM himself is poking fun at them. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier427 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I don't think the names would bother me so much if they had been spread out over a couple of families. One poster did say to give them a break cuz they r running out of names. Give me a break there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fae Boleyn Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have no problems with the names being used by GRRM but the fact that he placed them all in the one family did detract from the sense of this being a history. This part felt like reading a high school essay where the author was trying to be a smart arse by trying to slip in silly names to annoy the teacher. House Tully has enough detractors without it seeming like GRRM himself is poking fun at them.This sums up my feelings on it too. I like little jokes and nods, they're fun, but in a row like that, with a family that gets enough mockery? Yeah, kind of annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I liked them, although I would have liked it better if they were spelled a bit differently (Kermytt, Oskarr, etc.). Just like what GRRM did with the three stooges essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Annaly Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I liked them, although I would have liked it better if they were spelled a bit differently (Kermytt, Oskarr, etc.). Just like what GRRM did with the three stooges essentially. Yeah that would have been a much better nod, subtle ...well relatively.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulogirl Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I too found this distracting, but it was one of the more minor annoyances of the book, so I'm not inclined to make an issue of it. I did think that it was possibly a reference to the fact that the Tullys are always the puppets and never the puppetmasters in the various games of thrones that have been played throughout history. They were never kings, they were always serving various royal houses. Hence the muppet allusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 It's a bit funny especially when you consider Tully is not that far off from Telly (as a kid I used to think of him as "Tully monster" for some odd reason), which fits with most members of House Tully as they tend to be a house of worry worts (Catelyn, Lysa & Hoster moreso than Edmure and Brynden). And that all the names are of Sesame Street characters (Kermit the Frog originally debuted on Sesame Street before branching off onto the Muppets), which loosely fits House Tully's focus on family values in general. It's not any more of a name drop than others that have been mentioned in this thread. Can it be a bit distracting? Yes, but the very nature of name dropping like this are fourth wall winks to the audience. How many winks one can tolerate before the whole house of cards comes crashing down is up to each reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 At first I thought it was passing clever, but now I think it's just silly and yeah, does cheapen the World book a bit.But really, it's such a well done book that this little thing doesn't mar the experience at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanybal The Obsidian Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Wow...I didn't think people would get so touchy about character names. With the thousands of named characters within the aSoIaF mythos, there are bound to be some that stand out more than the rest to some of us. Singling out names like "Kermit" and "Elmo" are simply the reader placing their own real-world perceptions onto something that exists in a world outside our own. Perhaps GRRM did add those names as an omage or jest...but that shouldn't lessen our enjoyment, or deem the work of lesser quality; that's just nit-picky. Besides, Kermit and Elmo are both names given in the real world, no different than Jon or Brandon. Kermit the Frog was actually named after his creator, the late, great, master puppeteer/puppetmaker Kermit Love(who, interestingly enough, looked a bit like GRRM...probably just the beard). We're talking about the guy who literally built Big Bird. Additionally, Kermit was a relatively popular given name back in the 1950's. Much moreso than today, anyway. I could give at least a dozen examples of other notable people named Kermit, but I don't think there is any need for that. As far as Elmo is concerned...um, ever hear of Saint Elmo, or Saint Elmo's Fire? He was the patron saint of sailors, and died more than 1500 years before the Muppet Elmo was created. The first African-American to obtain a Ph.D. was named St. Elmo Brady, who was born 100 years before Elmo became a character on Sesame Street. And if you really want to get into the minutae of the name, it's actually a shortened form of the name William in many different languages. And if you're not familiar with St. Elmo's Fire, a quick google search will easily remedy that with a better explanation I would be able to muster at the moment. So basically, it's all about personal perspective, and how you view these names specifically, and what real-world associations we make as individuals. I didn't bat an eyelash when I read these names simply because my association of these names go beyond Muppets and Sesame Street. It is likely that GRRM did use those names as an omage to their Muppet counterparts, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be singled out as "lame" or "silly". In our world Dustin is typically a given name. Does that make House Dustin a lame house name? Not in my opinion. It really is all about opinion and perspective. If your gut reaction to seeing these names is a negative one, I suppose that cannot be helped. But I do think it a bit trivial to single out two names out of thousands; especially when there is much more meaning/history to these names than superficial modern cultural associations. Martin uses inspiration from a variety of sources, both real world and fictional. Just look at the lesser known parts of the world like Eastern Essos and Sothoryos. There is a lot of blatantly obvious references to H.P. Lovecraft's work, and the subsequent additions to his Cthulhu Mythos by other authors such as Ambrose Bierce and Robert Chambers. I mean, there's actually a city named Carcosa where a sorceror lord claiming to be the 69th Yellow Emperor supposedly resides. And that's just one example of many Cthulhu Mythos allusions(although naming a city Carcosa is pretty damn dicrect). So, from my personal perspective, none of the allusions I find in aSoIaF are silly. I simply see it as an artist drawing inspiration from work he admires, or just giving a bit of a tip-of-the-hat to them in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I wouldn't say lame, but childish. A childish joke. Which is ok. The world needs more innocent childish humour. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elia Sand Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Somehow the Muppets and ASOIAF do not click together in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmure's Floppy Fish Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springchild Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Had a chuckle when I saw Elmo and Kermit... Actually I thought it was kind of cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I still find it hilarious that the greatest historical Tully and the guy who killed Borros Baratheon is named after a frog puppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I have no problems with the names being used by GRRM but the fact that he placed them all in the one family did detract from the sense of this being a history. This part felt like reading a high school essay where the author was trying to be a smart arse by trying to slip in silly names to annoy the teacher. House Tully has enough detractors without it seeming like GRRM himself is poking fun at them.Agreed. It doesn't help Ser Elmo looks like Elmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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