Jump to content
Queen Rhaenyra

Errors in the WOIAF

Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, zionius said:

An error of the world book, or  error of maester Yandel?

I'm inclined to say it's an error of Arya's rather than the other way around, because I am pretty sure George wrote that part of the Braavos write up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Switzeran said:

I'm inclined to say it's an error of Arya's rather than the other way around, because I am pretty sure George wrote that part of the Braavos write up.

Thanks! How about Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron in the world map? Was is Kingdom or Kingdoms in George's hand-drawn map?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kingdom of the Ifequevron (note the u) is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was trawling through the various Starks who made it into the crypts, I came across a few that were not shown in the 'Stark lineage' chart as having been Lords. From various stories across the books, I believe the chart is just missing some bolding of names, as it appears they were all lords at one time (though not always for very long...)

So, if I'm right, these names need bolding:

  • Rodwell Stark (older brother of Beron)
  • Donnor Stark (Beron's 1st son)
  • Artos the Implacable (Beron's 3rd son)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

When I was trawling through the various Starks who made it into the crypts, I came across a few that were not shown in the 'Stark lineage' chart as having been Lords. From various stories across the books, I believe the chart is just missing some bolding of names, as it appears they were all lords at one time (though not always for very long...)

So, if I'm right, these names need bolding:

  • Rodwell Stark (older brother of Beron)
  • Donnor Stark (Beron's 1st son)
  • Artos the Implacable (Beron's 3rd son)

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Errata_of_The_World_of_Ice_%26_Fire#Appendix

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Artos_Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kindle version of the book recently updated to v3.1_r7, and a few long-held issues are finally solved. @Rhaenys_Targaryen@Lord Varys you might be interested.

  • Maester issue

Maester Orwyle (who had succeeded Maester Mellos in the previous year ) Maester Gerardys (who served Princess Rhaenyra on Dragonstone) was forced to amputate two fingers.
“Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester Maester Gerardys and her midwife tried to restrain her.

  • Ellard issue

Though in these days it is said that Lord Ellard Alaric Stark was glad to aid the Night’s Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark’s brother sons to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid.

  • Timeline

BATTLE OF THE GULLET was moved to 130 AC.

  • Iron Islands issue

The three changes suggested by Ran years ago finally made into the book.

No further changes are found.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@zionius

Thanks a lot!

@Ran did you pass along/suggest any additional changes based on the new FaB Jaehaerys I that might be included some time later? For instance, a mentioning of the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, of Barth not going to Oldtown to treat with the High Septon, etc.?

Also, one assumes that the TWoIaF family tree is going to get an update concerning Androw Farman, Daenerys-Aeryn, and the birth order of the children.

And the Stark family tree should include both the existence and the name of Cregan Stark's younger brother Gyldayn mentions as having existed in FaB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, one assumes that the TWoIaF family tree is going to get an update concerning Androw Farman, Daenerys-Aeryn, and the birth order of the children.

Har, I forgot to check the images, it's updated

Daenerys-Aeryn, Rogar, Myriah, and the birth order of the children are fixed, but Androw Farman and Laena are still missing.

Mariah Stark is also Myriah now.

@Ran I found two new mistakes in the updated family tree. And some old mistakes are still not corrected. (Bennedict Rogers, Cregan's brother, Rodwell and Donnor Stark not bolded, Willem and Martyn Lannister not twins)

Edited by zionius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, zionius said:

Har, I forgot to check the images, it's updated

Daenerys-Aeryn, Rogar, Myriah, and the birth order of the children are fixed, but Androw Farman and Laena are still missing.

I've no issue with a missing Laena since it would be odd to have one named child besides an unnamed number of other 'issue' besides her.

However, one expects an overhaul of the complete tree with FaB II, considering that chances are reasonably high we'll get the names of all the children by Baela-Alyn and Rhaena-Garmund, and possibly some marriages further down the road. If the second Laena were the mother of Ronnel Penrose, say, and the grandmother of Aelinor Penrose, then this certainly should be reflected in the tree. Similar for any other cousin marriages involving the sons of Daeron II.

But Androw Farman should be squeezed in there somehow. That's not impossible, it is just tricky. We got him in the family tree for FaB, too, and the guys there decided to go with a full tree rather than the limited tree used in the English edition of FaB.

In light of the Myriah change one wonders whether the Stark daughter is now 'Myriah', too, or rather 'Marian' from the MUSH?

Like the change made about the New Gift thing. The sons work fine, especially since they are unnamed guys in FaB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those images are still too small for me to figure out what the issue is supposed to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lord Varys said:

In light of the Myriah change one wonders whether the Stark daughter is now 'Myriah', too, or rather 'Marian' from the MUSH?

Yeah, I updated in OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viserys II is married to Rhaenyra's Visenya rather than Larra, and there is indeed no marriage line between Corwyn Corbray and Rhaena.

By the way, for the Lannister tree the map legend should mention ruling lords and ladies as criteria for the boldness stuff, since two ruling ladies - Lady Cerelle and Lady Cersei - should be marked as such on the final version of the tree if all the corrections there have been made.

With the Starks there are no ruling ladies there, but the Lannisters had two (and still have the latter in the main series).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, zionius said:

Kindle version of the book recently updated to v3.1_r7, and a few long-held issues are finally solved. @Rhaenys_Targaryen@Lord Varys you might be interested.

  • Maester issue

Maester Orwyle (who had succeeded Maester Mellos in the previous year ) Maester Gerardys (who served Princess Rhaenyra on Dragonstone) was forced to amputate two fingers.
“Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester Maester Gerardys and her midwife tried to restrain her.

  • Ellard issue

Though in these days it is said that Lord Ellard Alaric Stark was glad to aid the Night’s Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark’s brother sons to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid.

  • Timeline

BATTLE OF THE GULLET was moved to 130 AC.

  • Iron Islands issue

The three changes suggested by Ran years ago finally made into the book.

No further changes are found.

Thanks for the tag! Very interested indeed for these kinds of updates :)  Much appreciated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2019 at 8:43 AM, zionius said:
  • Ellard issue

Though in these days it is said that Lord Ellard Alaric Stark was glad to aid the Night’s Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark’s brother sons to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid.

@Ran

So it is confirmed now that this passage does indeed refer to 58ish AC when Lord Alaric was being asked to donate the land, and that the letters to the Citadel were indeed sent by Lord Alaric's currently unnamed son?

I suppose you can't really say whether this indicates that Alaric's sons were already then of marriageable age?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

@Ran

So it is confirmed now that this passage does indeed refer to 58ish AC when Lord Alaric was being asked to donate the land, and that the letters to the Citadel were indeed sent by Lord Alaric's currently unnamed son?

By both of the sons, apparently. 

We have no basis to know when those letters were sent. Perhaps while the king and queen were at Winterfell and when Lord Alaric was persuaded by Alysanne, perhaps later, after Lord Alaric had already given Alysanne his word that he would do as she bid and the lords he was now forcing to make the New Gift were reaching out to his sons for help to prevent them from losing their lands?

What seems clear now is that the lands making up the New Gift were not Stark lands as such but lands held by other lords in the North. Back before FaB people jumped to the conclusion that the Starks specifically were using lands there, not some of their bannermen.

7 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I suppose you can't really say whether this indicates that Alaric's sons were already then of marriageable age?

The fact that Alaric claims to raise the issue of marriage with his sons rather than simply deciding who they would marry implies that they likely old enough that a reasonably caring father actually cared to ask for their opinion on the matter. This would imply they were well past ten, perhaps already approaching adulthood or already grown men. There are many Starks who were not exactly betrothed or married off as children. Lord Walton apparently also died childless, considering Alaric succeeded him, meaning he may have also been unmarried at the time. Plenty of Northmen are unmarried. The Umber uncles as far as we know, Galbart Glover, Wyman Manderly is currently widowed, his son Wendel died a bachelor, etc.

But I doubt Ran got the birth dates of Alaric's children from George.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

@zionius

Are updates similar to the ones for TWOIAF done for TRP, TSOTD, and TPATQ? 

I guess no. Their kindle versions looked the time as years ago. And it's not necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, zionius said:

I guess no. Their kindle versions looked the time as years ago. And it's not necessary.

No. We can discard the novellas now. They are either incomplete or full of mistakes/poorly edited. FaB is the full text, and one assumes it is the canonical version now where there are discrepancies.

Meaning that Aegon II never decreed Rhaenyra was just a princess, and that neither Mushroom nor anyone else ever spread the rumor that Alicent Hightower slept with Prince Daemon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×