Michael Brown Shooting: The Aftermath of the Grand Jury Decision

[The Fallen]

Just a few comments.

theprincethatwasn'tpromised

You're making statements as if they're facts when they're not. As if repeating them enough times will make them true.

It is not fact that Brown assaulted a cop. That's what Darren Wilson has claimed while Dorian Johnson, the only other individual (besides Brown) who was there states that Wilson slammed the door into Brown and then grabbed him. If a cop hits a civilian, can the civilian defend himself? If Brown was defending himself, of which there is a 50/50 chance, then it isn't automatically assault. No matter how confident you state that it is an assault.

You've also insisted that Brown tried to take Wilson's gun to shoot him with it. Again, simply because Wilson said it, doesn't make it so. There was gun residue on Brown's hand. It doesn't prove that Brown was going for Wilson's gun to shoot him with it. If someone pointed a gun at me in close proximity I will reach out to push it away from me, thus ending with gun residue if a shot had gone off.

I'm bothered by that kind of misinformation. Also, did you look at the CrimingWhileWhite link? Any comments about how a white cop would speak differently to a Michael White as opposed to a Michael Brown? My coworker is white and grew up middle-class in the suburbs. He told me his own CrimingWhileWhite story. The NYPD was conducting bag searches in the subway (train stations). He had weed in his backpack. There was a black guy in front of him as they approached the cops. Of course, they picked the black guy for inspection allowing him to waltz on by with the week in his backpack. Not that much would've happened to him even if they had found the weed. That is an example of both racism and white privilege working for one group and against another.

Lastly, I just wanted to clarify that both Michael Brown and Darren Wilson are 6'4". With Wilson, at 28 yrs old and 208 lbs, being in peak physical condition. Brown, at 17 yrs old and 280 lbs, was chubby, to be polite. He had good size for an offensive lineman in football; you know, the fat guys. So this idea that Wilson was overmatched due to size is false. If he was overmatched, it was because he couldn't fight, not due to size.

grammar

[Lord Flashheart]

When the opposition doesn't acknowledge, and does its best to refute the facts (its sad the level of grasping the Brown defenders goto) one must present the facts over and over until they are taken into account. You are the same person who said the people of Ferg. should riot if Wilson wasn't indicted. But oh wait, your have historical context for why it is the right thing to do. You are a joke.

The only reason one side is making those arguments is because the other side keeps the denying the facts

Do you guys even read posts? It's like you are bending over backwards to prove Terra's point.

[DanteGabriel]

Do you guys even read posts? It's like you are bending over backwards to prove Terra's point.

They don't. Jslay's stupid post about how anyone calling Brown anything but an angel would be shouted down, mere posts after I said he wasn't an angel but that didn't mean he deserves to be shot, is enough. They just argue with the voices in their heads.

More fool I for getting sucked back into an argument with these dead-enders.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Just a few comments.

theprincethatwasn'tpromised

You're making statements as if they're facts when they're not. As if repeating them enough times will make them true.

It is not fact that Brown assaulted a cop. That's what Darren Wilson has claimed while Dorian Johnson, the only other individual (besides Brown) who was there states that Wilson slammed the door into Brown and then grabbed him. If a cop hits a civilian, can the civilian defend himself? If Brown was defending himself, of which there is a 50/50 chance, then it isn't automatically assault. No matter how confident you state that it is an assault.

You've also insisted that Brown tried to take Wilson's gun to shoot him with it. Again, simply because Wilson said it, doesn't make it so. There was gun residue on Brown's hand. It doesn't prove that Brown was going for Wilson's gun to shoot him with it. If someone pointed a gun at me in close proximity I will reach out to push it away from me, thus ending with gun residue if a shot had gone off.

I'm bothered by that kind of misinformation. Also, did you look at the CrimingWhileWhite link? Any comments about how a white cop would speak differently to a Michael White as opposed to a Michael Brown? My coworker is white and grew up middle-class in the suburbs. He told me his own CrimingWhileWhite story. The NYPD was conducting bag searches in the subway (train stations). He had weed in his backpack. There was a black guy in front of him as they approached the cops. Of course, they picked the black guy for inspection allowing him to waltz on by with the week in his backpack. Not that much would've happened to him even if they had found the weed. That is an example of both racism and white privilege working for one group and against another.

Lastly, I just wanted to clarify that both Michael Brown and Darren Wilson are 6'4". With Wilson, at 28 yrs old and 208 lbs, being in peak physical condition. Brown, at 17 yrs old and 280 lbs, was chubby, to be polite. He had good size for an offensive lineman in football; you know, the fat guys. So this idea that Wilson was overmatched due to size is false. If he was overmatched, it was because he couldn't fight, not due to size.

grammar

So you're one of the few still claiming Brown didn't assault Wilson? Just that fact that Dante admitted Brown had some fault is good enough for me... But your taking the word of Johnson? You don't think he could be as biased as you feel Wilson is on the opposite side?

[Jslay427]

Do you guys even read posts? It's like you are bending over backwards to prove Terra's point.

Its like you are bending over backwards to be irrelevant to the conversation.

They don't. Jslay's stupid post about how anyone calling Brown anything but an angel would be shouted down, mere posts after I said he wasn't an angel but that didn't mean he deserves to be shot, is enough. They just argue with the voices in their heads.

More fool I for getting sucked back into an argument with these dead-enders.

you have done your best to refute what was seen in the video at the store, have you not? i forget who was saying "well since the clerk didn't call the cops it wasn't a crime" therefore proving Brown wasn't a criminal!!! memorable!

[DanteGabriel]

you have done your best to refute what was seen in the video at the store, have you not? i forget who was saying "well since the clerk didn't call the cops it wasn't a crime" therefore proving Brown wasn't a criminal!!! memorable!

I haven't addressed the store video footage at all. It's pretty obvious you haven't read my posts about whether or not Brown was an angel. And yet you used the same word I did in my post that you totally ignored, yet tried to imply I said the opposite of what I actually said.

Learn to read. Better yet, learn to comprehend.

[TrueMetis]

Its like you are bending over backwards to be irrelevant to the conversation.

you have done your best to refute what was seen in the video at the store, have you not? i forget who was saying "well since the clerk didn't call the cops it wasn't a crime" therefore proving Brown wasn't a criminal!!! memorable!

That wasn't Dante, and the argument is more "the only guy who actually gets to say something was stolen, hasn't said anything was stolen."

[Jslay427]

I haven't addressed the store video footage at all. It's pretty obvious you haven't read my posts about whether or not Brown was an angel. And yet you used the same word I did in my post that you totally ignored, yet tried to imply I said the opposite of what I actually said.

Learn to read. Better yet, learn to comprehend.

Again, why haven't you addressed a key point of the opposition ? I knew other people were trying to refute the video, I didn't expressly know if it was you. there has been SO much grasping by the people defending Brown that it is hard to keep track of all the craziness.

[Swordfish]

As has been discussed, I think what happened in the store is only relevant in the context of whether Wilson suspected Brown was a suspect, and how that may have influenced the way he approached the situation.

The more important part to me is whether Brown in fact reached inside the car and what his intent was. there certainly seems to be corroborating evidence to believe that he did. Is this controversial still in anyone's mind?

Those are really the key salient points as far as I'm concerned.

[The Fallen]

So you're one of the few still claiming Brown didn't assault Wilson? Just that fact that Dante admitted Brown had some fault is good enough for me... But your taking the word of Johnson? You don't think he could be as biased as you feel Wilson is on the opposite side?

Read the post again. You're stating as fact that Brown assaulted Wilson. I'm saying that it's not fact, that there's actually a 50% chance that Brown assaulted Wilson. Furthermore, if Wilson initiated the scuffle then there is actually no assault by Brown. Unless you believe that one shouldn't defend oneself from a cop.

[Kalbear]

And I'm pretty tired of all the outrage of martyring of Brown (who wasn't an angel or innocent) and Garner (who wasn't an angel or innocent either).

I don't get that at all. This implies that Brown and Gardner deserved to die because they did criminal actions.

They're obviously not martyrs, but they were killed despite being completely unarmed. Do you think that's reasonable?

Tamir Rice should also be mourned - but at this point we don't have the outrage of justice not being carried out in his case yet.

[Wee baby Shamus]

I don't get that at all. This implies that Brown and Gardner deserved to die because they did criminal actions.

They're obviously not martyrs, but they were killed despite being completely unarmed. Do you think that's reasonable?

Tamir Rice should also be mourned - but at this point we don't have the outrage of justice not being carried out in his case yet.

No, they did not deserve to die but their own actions by not obeying a police officer's orders led to their deaths.

And that is fact.

Protesters using the hands up motion while saying don't shoot is in fact using Brown as a martyr.

The memes I have been see on my FB page from my black friends showing a picture taken in 1964 of a young black man being choked by white police officers side by side with a picture of Gardner that is pretty much identical with the caption of "setting the clock back by 50 years" is also proving that Gardner is being used as a martyr.

[TrueMetis]

No, they did not deserve to die but their own actions by not obeying a police officer's orders led to their deaths.

And that is fact.

Right, so in the end to you not obeying a cop is grounds for execution.

[Wee baby Shamus]

Right, so in the end to you not obeying a cop is ground for execution.

I am actually laughing out load at your statement.

You really and truly do believe that by me stating that by Brown and Gardner not obeying a police officers order that I believe that is grounds for execution even though in the post you quoted I stated that they didn't deserve to die.

And MY reading comprehension skills are questioned. smh

[Roose Seal]

Looks like someone posted before reading all the posts after my list.

Oops!!!

And I'm pretty tired of all the outrage of martyring of Brown (who wasn't an angel or innocent) and Gartner (who wasn't an angel or innocent either).

I honestly can't get behind that.

The outrage should be focused on the truly innocent like the kid killed in Cleveland.

Brown ***IF IT IS TRUE*** stole like 10 bucks worth of cigarillos. OH MY GOD.

Garner was selling loose cigs. OH MY GOD.

meanwhile white dudes can shoot up schools and theaters and still be taken in peacefully.

[TrueMetis]

I am actually laughing out load at your statement.

You really and truly to believe that by me stating that by Brown and Gardner not obeying a police officers order that I believe that is grounds for execution even though in the post you quoted I stated that they didn't deserve to die.

And MY reading comprehension skills are questioned. smh

I believe that you saying them not obeying orders caused them to die isn't all the different from saying cops are allowed to kill those who don't obey their orders.

[The Fallen]

No, they did not deserve to die but their own actions by not obeying a police officer's orders led to their deaths.

And that is fact.

Protesters using the hands up motion while saying don't shoot is in fact using Brown as a martyr.

The memes I have been see on my FB page from my black friends showing a picture taken in 1964 of a young black man being choked by white police officers side by side with a picture of Gardner that is pretty much identical with the caption of "setting the clock back by 50 years" is also proving that Gardner is being used as a martyr.

Wait a minute. Garner caused his own death by protesting? Have you seen videos on YouTube of white guys protesting their treatment by police? None of them end up dead. At best, they're allowed to leave with a warning. Don't you see a double-standard?

And they're not being martyred. They're being used as examples.

ETA:

So if a cop orders me to stop and I run, the cops can kill me and it would be my fault for running?

[Wee baby Shamus]

Brown ***IF IT IS TRUE*** stole like 10 bucks worth of cigarillos. OH MY GOD.

Garner was selling loose cigs. OH MY GOD.

meanwhile white dudes can shoot up schools and theaters and still be taken in peacefully.

You do know that Brown's buddy Johnson admitted that Brown did indeed steal the cigarillos. And Garnder had been arrested about 30 times before his incident.

Again this goes back to my list of ignoring facts that don't fit the agenda.

[The Fallen]

You do know that Brown's buddy Johnson admitted that Brown did indeed steal the cigarillos. And Garnder had been arrested about 30 times before his incident.

Again this goes back to my list of ignoring facts that don't fit the agenda.

And Panteleo, the cop who killed Garner, was the subject of two civil rights lawsuits, in which the victims were awarded money. In one of the cases he had two black men strip naked on the street for a search. I guess that's all standard operating procedure, unless you're white.

[Wee baby Shamus]

And Panteleo, the cop who killed Garner, was the subject of two civil rights lawsuits, in which the victims were awarded money. In one of the cases he had two black men strip naked on the street for a search. I guess that's all standard operating procedure, unless you're white.

I never stated that Garnder's death by Panteleo was justified.

I only stated that he and Brown were not angels nor innocent and their actions by not obeying a police officer's order led to their deaths.

And I will state again that both of them did not deserve to die just in case you missed that part.

Again and MY reading comprehension skills are questioned.