What if Lyanna lived?

[Mal Malenkirk]

"Please, dear Robert, tell me how you bashed Rhaegar's chest in while I give you a thank-you blowjob. I love the part where blood and rubies spatter everywhere."

This and similar stuff would be what Lyanna would have to keep up for the rest of her life.

Yep. Aside from Lyanna, it's just about possible that things turn out better,

[Winterfell is Burning]

If Lyanna lived, things likely would have been worse for both Ned and Jon (and possibly poor Howland himself).

It would all depend on Lyanna's likeliness to accept three things:

I) That Jon had to be presented as Ned's son rather than hers;

II) That, if she went with Rhaegar consensually, she could never say so (even if she did went willingly but Rhaegar didn't allow her to go after she learned about Aerys actions, since she would be "betraying" Robert either way);

III) That she would either have to marry Robert or, at best, never marry anyone and at best keep any involvement she had with any man a complete secret. The latter might work if Lyanna says she's completely traumatized by the whole experience that she doesn't want any other man and that she doesn't want to live in the place where her father and brother were murdered so horribly.

In any way, she'd have to be lying to the entire world for the rest of her life.

[Cubarey]

If L lived then there would of mean a second rebellion especially if J+L had actually married since this would make R the rightful Targ heir. I cannot see L accepting to be Robert's Queen. I also do not see Ned turning over L and or J to Robert as he would know that Robert would have to have J killed to insure his own line of succession. Jon was also honor bound to not only protect his sister but his nephew he would be the rightful King. Whether Bolton revolted against Ned is highly speculative as he did so against Rob only because there was a Tywin. Robert was many things in his youth a skilled manipulator simply was not one of them. The Frey's and Bolton's betray Rob because there is a Tywin in position to plot. If L survives If L survives the Seven Kingdom's fall into civil war almost immediately. The North and Riverlands would likely stand with Ned, Question what John Ayre would do, he is the foster father of both Ned and Robert and he himself had no personal anymous towards the Targs, he would also then have a family tie to Ned through their marriage to the Tully girls, Ayre might decide to stay neutral or council conciliation but I do not see him actively leading his forces against Ned. Dorne would still maintain its neutrality. The Reach had been Targ supporters and at best it's uncertain how they would side. Tywin and Casterly Rock would almost certainly side with Robert but they would be at best an even match for the North and the Riverlands. So the upshot would be a second and likely much longer and bloodier rebellion.

[TimJames]

I'm I the only one here who thinks things would have been better if Lyanna had lived?

Lyanna probably didn't run off with Rheagar consensually, considering that at the time she was taken Rheagar would have been a person she JUST MET. Also, even if for some reason she did love him, she would still restrain herself from running off out of loyalty to her family.

I don't know whether or not a relationship between Lyanna and Rheagar developed while she was in the Tower of Joy, but I do know it would have been less love and more Stockholm Syndrome. And even so what ever feelings she developed for Rheagar would have been destroyed once Ned explained that her father and brother were murdered by Aerys for trying to rescue her.

She definitely would have married Robert Baratheon, as that is what her father chose for her and I doubt Ned would cancel this agreement.

Robert Baratheon would have stayed faithful to her, and probably would not have let himself go as he would have no sorrow to attempt to drown out. It is not out of the question that eventually Lyanna would come to love Robert (remember, Catelyn and Ned only fell in love AFTER being married for years).

No harm would come to Jon Snow; Ned would tell everyone Jon was his son anyway. Lyanna would accept this, as it is the only way to be sure her son is safe. Eventually Jon would join the Night's Watch.

The best part: no Lannisters in King's Landing. Cersei would never have a chance to put her incest children on the throne, Ned wouldn't be executed, and the war of five kings would not have happened. Millions of peasants who died would be alive.

[mediterraneo]

Well, if Lyanna lived, she could be hiding in some place, having made Ned promise that he would have said she died.

It would not have been difficult to find some bones to bring North, during a civil war.

That could explain why a non-ruling woman is buried with the Kings of Winter's line:

"Sure Bob, she died. I saw her with my own eyes, I promise. You can take the long way up North and see her sturdy stone grave with statue here. Bring flowers. No, we definitely wouldn't have left another empty grave in this sacred line, after that of the sailor over there. Don't you trust your buddy anymore?".

Could we crackpot a hidden Lyanna in... Septa Lemore?
Or somewhere hiding far, like out of Volantis walls, or something.

[Darksnider05]

You all need to stop reading fan-fiction If Lyanna moves North she's out of reach of Robert for ever. It's done even more so if she settles up in the Neck with her Son.

Might mean Eddard can't return "Dawn". But either way this isn't really a problem for Eddard as sneaking a single women and a child home isn't difficult.

But really all Lyanna has to say is she's been damaged by Rhaegar and has chosen to never marry. The End.

Wow you all live in soap operas.

[SeanF]

You all need to stop reading fan-fiction If Lyanna moves North she's out of reach of Robert for ever. It's done even more so if she settles up in the Neck with her Son.

Might mean Eddard can't return "Dawn". But either way this isn't really a problem for Eddard as sneaking a single women and a child home isn't difficult.

But really all Lyanna has to say is she's been damaged by Rhaegar and has chosen to never marry. The End.

Wow you all live in soap operas.

Or else we appreciate that in this world, noblewomen and their infant children are seen as legitimate targets for revenge.

[Isobel Harper]

Well, if Lyanna lived, she could be hiding in some place, having made Ned promise that he would have said she died.

It would not have been difficult to find some bones to bring North, during a civil war.

That could explain why a non-ruling woman is buried with the Kings of Winter's line:

"Sure Bob, she died. I saw her with my own eyes, I promise. You can take the long way up North and see her sturdy stone grave with statue here. Bring flowers. No, we definitely wouldn't have left another empty grave in this sacred line, after that of the sailor over there. Don't you trust your buddy anymore?".

Could we crackpot a hidden Lyanna in... Septa Lemore?

Or somewhere hiding far, like out of Volantis walls, or something.

This has crossed my mind as well. However, doesn't Ned recall her dying in his own inner-monologue?

[TimJames]

Why do you think Lyanna would never be able to marry Robert?

Sure, she wasn't sure he would be the best husband, but that does not mean she hated him. She wouldn't hate him for killing Rheagar after she learned that her brother and father were murdered by the mad king because of Rheagar.

Catelyn and Ned came to love each other after being married for years, so I don't see why the same could not happen with Robert and Lyanna.

[Faydra]

Depends on how good a liar she is, or whether she wants to lie at all. If not, things get ugly, and pathetic, but mostly ugly.

[denny717]

If Lyanna lived then her and jon (probably not his name anymore) would probably hide in bravos or in the north so Ned can supply them with gold and food. As long as they pretend she died and hide her then they're fine. As long as she doesn't decide her son should be king one day. But she is too head strong to marry robert. Her father and brothers were unable to convince her, after all she's been through there's no way Ned could convince her to marry the man who killed her baby daddy.shes also to headstrong to let someone else take care of her baby while she lives as a queen and pretends her own kid doesn't exist

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

Than I would hope Lyanna gets to live out her days at Winterfell with her son and just forget about Robert.

Oh my sweet summer child.....

To the OP, things would go to shit very fast, especially for Ned. At best, Ned and Lyanna convince Robert to send Jon to the wall or become a septon so he is no longer a threat to the throne and Lyanna marries Robert aka the guy who killed the man who she supposedly loved. Considering she resembles Arya so much, can you see her doing that? At worst, Jon and Lyanna are both killed by Robert in his fury and Ned goes to war with Robert, putting Cat's and Robb's life at risk. Lyanna wouldn't be able to finance herself in the free cities and Ned couldn't finance them without Catelyn getting suspicious (and Ned can't very well tell a woman he barely knows that he commited treason). Lyanna definately couldn't live at Winterfell any more without Robert demanding for Lyanna's hand and Jon's death.

All in all, it's better that Lyanna died. It made things easier for anyone.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Oh my sweet summer child.....

To the OP, things would go to shit very fast, especially for Ned. At best, Ned and Lyanna convince Robert to send Jon to the wall or become a septon so he is no longer a threat to the throne and Lyanna marries Robert aka the guy who killed the man who she supposedly loved. Considering she resembles Arya so much, can you see her doing that? At worst, Jon and Lyanna are both killed by Robert in his fury and Ned goes to war with Robert, putting Cat's and Robb's life at risk. Lyanna wouldn't be able to finance herself in the free cities and Ned couldn't finance them without Catelyn getting suspicious (and Ned can't very well tell a woman he barely knows that he commited treason). Lyanna definately couldn't live at Winterfell any more without Robert demanding for Lyanna's hand and Jon's death.

All in all, it's better that Lyanna died. It made things easier for anyone.

You're assuming Lyanna confesses to the world she went with Rhaegar willingly (if she did) and also that Jon is her son's and not Ned's.

[mediterraneo]

You're assuming Lyanna confesses to the world she went with Rhaegar willingly (if she did) and also that Jon is her son's and not Ned's.

Well, if she doesn't there are really no arguments to be made to save "the child of the rape" from Robert "not all of the Targaryens are dead" Baratheon.

If she stays in public, the fruit of her pregnancy would be searched and would be killed by Robert, as the other Rhaegar's sons.

Appearing a simpathetic character doesn't mean that RObert is not utterly ruthless in addressing the existance of defiances to his right to rule. He did order and reward the murdering of childrens already.

So Lyanna would have had to stay hidden, as a way to hide her pregnancy too, so the child will not be searched for.

I bet that if she lived she would have tried to stay near her son, too.

And no, she couldn't have gotten North: she was known there, and it would have been easy for someone to speak to Robert, or to his new wife's father, creating lots of magnitudes of problems to herself, the children, Ned, the North and the dinasty.

[Darksnider05]

Oh my sweet summer child.....

To the OP, things would go to shit very fast, especially for Ned. At best, Ned and Lyanna convince Robert to send Jon to the wall or become a septon so he is no longer a threat to the throne and Lyanna marries Robert aka the guy who killed the man who she supposedly loved. Considering she resembles Arya so much, can you see her doing that? At worst, Jon and Lyanna are both killed by Robert in his fury and Ned goes to war with Robert, putting Cat's and Robb's life at risk. Lyanna wouldn't be able to finance herself in the free cities and Ned couldn't finance them without Catelyn getting suspicious (and Ned can't very well tell a woman he barely knows that he commited treason). Lyanna definately couldn't live at Winterfell any more without Robert demanding for Lyanna's hand and Jon's death.

All in all, it's better that Lyanna died. It made things easier for anyone.

How would Robert ever get to Lyanna seriously does Eddard take her to court while he's still mad pissed at Robert. The only reason they started talking again was over the death of Lyanna and shared grief.

If she doesn't die Robert is just that guy who allowed the murder of children to Eddard. There's no cool down time there just right back to furious but now even more so as this dishonorable shit is now looking at my family.

As we've said a million times on this site the North doesn't have to fear the south when it's on Defense. Lyanna get's home that's the end there's no magical army to come get her from the south.

[SeanF]

How would Robert ever get to Lyanna seriously does Eddard take her to court while he's still mad pissed at Robert. The only reason they started talking again was over the death of Lyanna and shared grief.

If she doesn't die Robert is just that guy who allowed the murder of children to Eddard. There's no cool down time there just right back to furious but now even more so as this dishonorable shit is now looking at my family.

As we've said a million times on this site the North doesn't have to fear the south when it's on Defense. Lyanna get's home that's the end there's no magical army to come get her from the south.

In that case, there's an open breach between North and South. Either Ned surrenders Lyanna and Jon, or there's war, with perhaps some of Ned's vassals prepared to betray him.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

How would Robert ever get to Lyanna seriously does Eddard take her to court while he's still mad pissed at Robert. The only reason they started talking again was over the death of Lyanna and shared grief.

If she doesn't die Robert is just that guy who allowed the murder of children to Eddard. There's no cool down time there just right back to furious but now even more so as this dishonorable shit is now looking at my family.

As we've said a million times on this site the North doesn't have to fear the south when it's on Defense. Lyanna get's home that's the end there's no magical army to come get her from the south.

So.....you're suggesting that Ned gets Lyanna and Jon home from Dorne and no one notices that Ned is traveling with his recently missing sister and a child? That's impossible. Someone will see, someone will tell Robert and Robert will probably going racing after them to see his supposed beloved...and her child. And it will be difficult to say it's Ned's kid when he seems to have reunited with his sister and the child at the same time.

No need of a magical army when you have the navies of Lord Rowan and the wealth of the Lannisters to buy new ships. As we have been repeatedly told in TWOIAF the southern border of the North is defended but the Eastern and western is open to the sea. Robert will have the supports of the Lannisters, Tyrells, Arryns and his own House. So yes, Ned has the choice of either giving Lyanna to Robert or risking another war, and his bannermen with be reluctant to fight for a woman who, in their eyes, was unfaithful to her betrothed, no matter how unfair the reasoning is.

[Sword of the Morgan]

We don't know what happened at the Tower of Joy, so we can't answer this question.

[Viserys - The last dragon]

Robert saw Lyanna as a victim who was kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar so he would not do her harm. She and Ned would probably agree that Jon must be hidden from Robert and would devise a plan to do so.

Perhaps even make him promise...... :o OOMMGGG

[WhitewolfStark]

It depends upon what exactly happened at the TOJ, but assuming R+L=J (disregarding the circumstances by which it came about), there's several roads to take--most turning out dangerous.

Stick to the truth no matter what? It appears that the North is now in rebellion and things go downhill very quickly.

The possibility that has the most people living and being "relatively happy"?

While I have seen people go "look at Arya, can you imagine her marrying the murderer of her babby daddy", I also say look at how Arya and Jon interacted, which if Jon is Ned in personality while Arya is Lyanna in personality, it's likely safe to assume that Lyanna would listen and likely take Ned's advice in the end--especially if pressed hard enough. Lyanna might not like it, but she'd eventually see reason, especially after hearing about Brandon and Rickard's deaths.

Ned will take Jon in and claim him as his bastard son. Ned journies to Starfall and delivers Dawn, gets a wetnurse, then returns to the TOJ where Howland and Lyanna are--he sends Howland and the wetnurse North, they likely make it as no one is looking for a crannogman, a dornishwoman, and a baby. Ned likely takes the bones of his men back North, with Lyanna riding Lady Dustin's mount. Ned won't be powered by grief to "tear down the tower" and build cairns. Heck, Ned might even return Arthur's body to Starfall in addition to the sword. Besides a wetnurse, Ned migh ask for supplies to bring those men's bones home as well.

Ned and Lyanna have to make some kind of appearance at court. Ned doesn't like it, not with the way Robert conducted himself over Rhaegar's other children, but he knows if Lyanna is to live openly in the North and watch Jon grow up, the issue has to be addressed at some point.

Lyanna says she's been too traumatized from the experience with Rhaegar to be married. It's either a lie or the truth (depending on how you read what happens at Harrenhal), but one that will allow her to live in the North openly and watch her son grow up in the position as an aunt.

Robert likely doesn't give up and only thinks that she needs some time, and so he comes a wooing, while Jon Arryn tries to get him to see reality and to marry Cersei Lannister and secure the throne. At this point if one of Mace's sisters is unwed she might even be tossed in if enough time passes (it's possible with Jana, not with Mina--if you go by their kids' ages as being any indication of when they were married). So a "war of the queens" likely comes up. Perhaps the Florents try with Dalena, to be appeased. Robert has women thrown at him, but all he wants is Lyanna. He likely journies North at this point, unannounced, to plead with Lyanna to change her mind.

Once there he comes upon Lyanna spending one of her rare moments with infant Jon (she normally tries to keep her distance, but she cherishes the small moments when she can be near him). Robert sees the way she acts towards Jon and then suddenly puts 2 + 2 together when he hears the BS story about Jon being a bastard son of Ned's.

Robert loses it, likely calls her a dragonwhore out of anger--and shit goes down Westerosi style. It doesn't end prettily to say the least.

Remember, for Westerosi style to occur, one must get the illusion of a happy ending nearly taking place--and THEN have the rug pulled out from underneath.