Are Nipples Obscene?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Juanml82,

Respectfully, you seem to view subjective asthetics as objective fact. Football is the greatest sport ever. Large breasts are objectively beautiful. These are both subjective personal opinions.

[ElizabethB.]

Juanml82,

Respectfully, you seem to view subjective asthetics as objective fact. Football is the greatest sport ever. Large breasts are objectively beautiful. These are both subjective personal opinions.

Omg, are we getting links to big boob cleavages?

This is getting more exciting by the minute...

[juanml82]

Or, we can move society to a point where it has a fluid view of breasts. They can be admired and seen as beautiful and sexy, whilst people don't lose their mind over seeing them in public, and can be respectful. Just because something is more normalised and is acceptable in public doesn't mean it can't still be sexy. See my face analogy. Or hell, just think about a beautiful woman (or man) in general. Just because you are sexually attracted to someone it doesn't mean you can't treat them normally.

This issue isn't unlike lenguage in that the meaning of the thing (either the word or the naked breasts) are a social construct. A woman can not say: "I'll expose my breasts and won't arouse anyone" if the rest of society finds naked breasts arousing. If, however, the rest of society finds naked breasts as alluring as the mouth, then an individual woman can not say "My breasts will be hotter than mouths". The sexual value naked breasts (or any other part of the body) communicate isn't an individual issue but a social construct.

Also I'm interested on your views on cleavage. If going topless would remove the allure of breasts, why wouldn't displaying cleavage? Surely to maximise their appeal, by your logic, they should always be covered outside of the bedroom?

Cleveage hints at the full naked breasts, which is what makes it sexy. Reduce the allure of the naked breasts and the allure of cleveage goes down with it

Yes do so please, and maybe you can link photos, so we can tell exactly what kind of cleavage we are talking about?

LOL

Juanml82,

Respectfully, you seem to view subjective asthetics as objective fact. Football is the greatest sport ever.

You ser do not have a sense of humor

[protar]

This issue isn't unlike lenguage in that the meaning of the thing (either the word or the naked breasts) are a social construct. A woman can not say: "I'll expose my breasts and won't arouse anyone" if the rest of society finds naked breasts arousing. If, however, the rest of society finds naked breasts as alluring as the mouth, then an individual woman can not say "My breasts will be hotter than mouths". The sexual value naked breasts (or any other part of the body) communicate isn't an individual issue but a social construct.

Cleveage hints at the full naked breasts, which is what makes it sexy. Reduce the allure of the naked breasts and the allure of cleveage goes down with it

You're still not getting it. Just because something has an allure to it, it doesn't mean that it isn't acceptable in public or that it needs to be hypersexualised. This is why I bought up cleavage. I appreciate a good show of cleavage, but it's perfectly acceptable for women to show it in public. By your logic, the fact that it is acceptable in public would reduce it's allure, but that isn't true. Clearly there is some cognitive dissonance here.

[juanml82]

You're still not getting it. Just because something has an allure to it, it doesn't mean that it isn't acceptable in public or that it needs to be hypersexualised. This is why I bought up cleavage. I appreciate a good show of cleavage, but it's perfectly acceptable for women to show it in public. By your logic, the fact that it is acceptable in public would reduce it's allure, but that isn't true. Clearly there is some cognitive dissonance here.

If you go by a few or your previous posts:

What I'm claiming is that just because women may enjoy the sexual aspect of their breasts, it doesn't mean that they want breasts to have that sexual aspect all the time. And no, I don't have any poll or statistics. Never claimed as such. So I don't know why you're acting like it's some big gotcha moment for you to point that out.

ETA: And really seeing as my claim is based on what is common sense - that women are not constantly feeling sexual - no poll is needed.

Can you not see how hypocritical you're being? Don't you want to force your views on other people by wanting breasts to stay sexualised in public spaces?

In any case I don't want to completely remove the sexual nature of breasts - even in public believe it or not. I would just like women to be able to go topless without people losing their minds.

It does looks like you'd like naked breasts to loose, at least, a significant part of their sexual allure

As for cleavage, a huge part of it's allure it's because it hints at fully naked breasts, which aren't acceptable nor normal in public

[protar]

If you go by a few or your previous posts:

It does looks like you'd like naked breasts to loose, at least, a significant part of their sexual allure

As for cleavage, a huge part of it's allure it's because it hints at fully naked breasts, which aren't acceptable nor normal in public

Well I will tell you for a fact that I do not want breasts to lose their allure. I love boobs. But they don't have to be just sexy.

As for the cleavage - Yes but why not go further? Why not say "fully covered breasts hint at cleavage, they lose their allure if women can just display cleavage in public." It's the exact same logic that you're using.

[juanml82]

As for the cleavage - Yes but why not go further? Why not say "fully covered breasts hint at cleavage, they lose their allure if women can just display cleavage in public." It's the exact same logic that you're using.

It's not how society views it so there is probably a reason for it. If I were to bet, I'd say that, since using the body to seduce is about hinting, not showing, fully covered breasts don't hint at all.

[A wilding]

It's not how society views it so there is probably a reason for it.

"It's correct because that is the way it is."

What about societies that require women to wear a niqab or the burqa so as not to tempt men? They could make the same argument. I believe that certain Islamic authorities believe that the face is the most alluring part of the female body, an opinion that I can definitely see the force of.

[protar]

It's not how society views it so there is probably a reason for it. If I were to bet, I'd say that, since using the body to seduce is about hinting, not showing, fully covered breasts don't hint at all.

Again you're missing my point. It's not how society views it, but it easily could be - and is in some societies. You're simply so used to your current worldview that you can't put yourself in a different pair of shoes. To you, cleavage is hinting at the breasts. In another country the shape of a woman's chest beneath a hijab would be hinting as well.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

But football is the greatest sport ever. :dunno:

How funny how the discussion derailed. Nipples are obscene? Of course not. Why should they? Babies feed from them, that's mostly their function. The fact they provide sexual pleasure means nothing. I find forearms sexy. Does that mean men should go around and cover their arms? Women should only wear combat boots around Tarantino?

As someone who doesn't live in USA I find this discussion about breasts and breastfeeding quite strange, specially in a so-called 1st world country. The whole nipplegate debacle has been the most ridiculous reaction to a boob I've ever seen in my life because of the overreaction to the point the Oscars were delayed a couple of seconds in case something happened. What was going to happen? An accident? well, a few years ago, in a local tv show (the most watched, I believe) a dancer from the Amazonas lost her top during a dance and we all saw not just her nipple but her whole breasts. No one bat an eyelash, no one asked for tv censored, no one cared the next day.

When my baby was born, I was afraid to breastfeed in public, because I thought people would look me bad or feel awkward. I remember the first time I did it, I tried to find a hidden corner and use a blanket to cover my baby and breast. But the reality was that no one gave a damn about it. I kept breastfeeding in public (discretely, always) and no one ever cared about me and my baby :dunno:

Breast are over sexualized nowadays, but what isn't? We have half naked girls selling the most innocent stuff. Personally, I find this kind of objectification of women insulting, but that doesn't mean we can be sexual beings in private. We women shouldn't definitely being judged by how we dress and we should be free to dress in the way we want to. Personally, I try to keep it "classy" when I'm at work or in work meetings because I know showing some skin is a bit distracting, but that's my personal choice. Nevertheless, I couldn't blame a guy if he looks at me even if I dress up as a nun. I've definitely watched some guys at work, and it had nothing to do with their clothes. As long as no one acts about it and it's not offensive, I'm ok. I've actually met women who said that men who look at them should be punished for harassment. I wonder if they would ask the same if they are caught ogling at guys they like :dunno:

[deleted01]

I for one would like to be able to remove my shirt in public without being ogled at. The temperature does sometimes get above freezing in England, and I get frustrated when I can't stroll around without a shirt as blokes do. And remove my bloody bra! Having to wear a bra in hot weather should be banned forthwith.

So here's one vote for the "what women want their nipples desexualised?" This woman. And my SO can still sexualise my nipples* all he damn wants in the privacy of our bedroom. Win-win.

*And I can sexualise his. And I can sexualise my own. As many have stated, it's about context. But this trainwreck of a thread truly has been as exciting as the release of Locke Lamora...

Eta: Every time I glance at the title of this thread, I think it says "are nipples obese?", which truly is the question we should all be answering here.

[juanml82]

"It's correct because that is the way it is."

What about societies that require women to wear a niqab or the burqa so as not to tempt men? They could make the same argument. I believe that certain Islamic authorities believe that the face is the most alluring part of the female body, an opinion that I can definitely see the force of.

What I did write, and I'll write it for a second time, was "It's not how society views it so there is probably a reason for it". And yes, there is probably a reason for it. I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the niqab or burqa - I came into this thread to point out that women might happen to enjoy the status quo because it allows them to take pleasure in tempting men, which is kind of of the opposite of a dress code intended to prevent that.

Again you're missing my point. It's not how society views it, but it easily could be - and is in some societies. You're simply so used to your current worldview that you can't put yourself in a different pair of shoes. To you, cleavage is hinting at the breasts. In another country the shape of a woman's chest beneath a hijab would be hinting as well.

So, do you think people in Saudi Arabia react to women in traditional islamic clothing as men react to breasts in, for instance, the USA?

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Obscene? No. Weird? Very

[protar]

So, do you think people in Saudi Arabia react to women in traditional islamic clothing as men react to breasts in, for instance, the USA?

Well I'm not saudi so I wouldn't know exactly how the average man over there reacts. It would not surprised me if they found it alluring though.

In any case, I'm kind of bored of discussing this with you. This thread has indeed been a trainwreck, and you've quoted me so many times in a row that it's starting to annoy my OCD. So good day sir.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Juanml82,

The point is that your views regarding the display or sexualization of the public display of female breasts is not universal. Nor would desexualizing the public display of female breast mean that sexual pleasure could not be derived from them by all parties in a consentual sexual encounter, in a proper context. You are offering the absolutist opinion that desexualizing the public dispay of female breasts is bad... because you think it's bad and that is the extent of the rational for the opinion you've offered.

Your reasoning is perfectly circular. Hence our frustration at your repeated attempts to claim that circular reasoning somehow shows why the desexualization of the public display of female breast is a priori a bad thing for society.

[ElizabethB.]

My english teacher is starting to look too hot, I might want to spray some desexualizer on him!

[maarsen]

Show them or don't show them. That should be an individual decision. What is obscene is being criminally charged for showing a bit of skin. Might as well call belly buttons obscene. Everyone has one of those also.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Show them or don't show them. That should be an individual decision. What is obscene is being criminally charged for showing a bit of skin. Might as well call belly buttons obscene. Everyone has one of those also.

Well some jurisdictions only outlaw wither innies or outties, based on community standards.

[ElizabethB.]

Well some jurisdictions only outlaw wither innies or outties, based on community standards.

Not correct. They all outlaw outies, but some in a harsher approach than the others.

[juanml82]

Juanml82,

The point is that your views regarding the display or sexualization of the public display of female breasts is not universal. Nor would desexualizing the public display of female breast mean that sexual pleasure could not be derived from them by all parties in a consentual sexual encounter, in a proper context.

Now wait a minute here. I've first posted in this thread criticizing the supposedly expected results other posters believed openly showing breasts would cause. Namely, desexualizing them. And over and over, I was getting flak for supposedly believing in what other people claimed - that openly showing breasts as an everyday occurrence would cause them to loose their allure. Such flak included stuff like me having an "odd sexuality", being afraid and other stuff.

So stop right there. Yes or no, do you hold the opinion that public display of breasts would desexualize them? I am not getting into a Siso argument and getting bashed for the Si part of it, even if I don't write it.

And now for the second part. "In a proper context"? Who are you to tell women - and men - where to act in a deliberately sexually provocative manner? The words you wrote have a very strong puritan undertone: "be hot and sexy, as long as is in private", "keep your sexuality outside the streets". You will understand if people without a puritan background strongly disagree about the "proper context" for seduction and sexuality.

You are offering the absolutist opinion that desexualizing the public dispay of female breasts is bad... because you think it's bad and that is the extent of the rational for the opinion you've offered.

Your reasoning is perfectly circular. Hence our frustration at your repeated attempts to claim that circular reasoning somehow shows why the desexualization of the public display of female breast is a priori a bad thing for society.

Well, as I wrote when I first posted in this thread, probably repeated half a dozen times and you probably read, I think it's bad because it removes a seduction tool (you might remember "a weapon of their arsenal of seduction") for women. The question is, since I've wrote this several times, you're answering to me because you actually read my posts and this isn't exactly a complicated concept to grasp, why do you insist in putting words in my fingers I didn't write? Are strawman on sale near your place?