The Riverlands Web V.5

[Booknerd2]

The OP will always be a work in progress as characters, objects, places, post questions, and stuff is updated.

Here is the link to The Riverlands Web V.1 :http://asoiaf.wester...riverlands-web/

The Riverlands Web V.2: http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v2/

The Riverlands Web V.3 http://asoiaf.wester...erlands-web-v3/

The Riverlands Web V.4 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120898-the-riverlands-web-v4/

(To save room, for the next version, I will put the links under a spoiler box.)

The Riverlands Web: Or How Some People Can’t Shake a Connection if They Tried.

This was started because it branched out of another thread and took on a life of its own. Many had thoughts regarding some characters and how far away they were from each other, and from the last two books we see that is now narrowing. The overlap or just missing each other that has been occurring will go somewhere eventually. In some cases, some theories were more likely than others. Many have debated what I called to myself the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon or Starks. I dabbled here and there on threads, but always wished it would be in one place with everything in front. Arcs are narrowing and have or are about to intersect. We started to only brush the surface and took a look. So we wanted to delve into situations/connections and interpretations of what they mean and could mean, and give it a place of its own.

Here are some we have discussed, there are certainly more: Mini-fact, organizer, profiles...

Primary Tier Characters: Common thread: All in Riverlands area, and all looking for Sansa and Arya.

Brienne –of Tarth. Former Rainbow Guard member of Renly. Associated with Sapphires. Knew Catelyn, met Gendry and knows he’s Roberts’s son of her own accord, and I don’t need to elaborate on what she is currently doing for LS and BWB. We know her Jaime situation and she has fetched him. She is currently looking for Sansa and Arya Stark. She did not realize it but met Sandor on the QI. EB knows what her current mission is, he might have told Sandor. Sandor was standing around in his Novice Brother Halloween costume and surely heard something. Knows Thoros. Current Status: With Jaime

Sandor – No ser. House Clegane. Former bodyguard to King Joffrey. KG. Familiar with Sansa and Arya Stark. Run-in with BWB, LS thinks he was the last person to see Arya. Sandor knows Jaime from KL and earlier than that. Currently with EB (or maybe not?) Knows Thoros. Saw Gendry with Arya. Knows Catelyn Stark was the girls mother. Knowledge of LS through EB???Unknown and Speculative. Was there when Brienne showed up to QI. Reaction presently unknown. News he has gathered or input from EB unknown. Current Status: QI or Maybe not

Gendry – Ser of the Hollow Hill - Knighted by Dondarrion. Bastard son of King Robert. Part Targ and Estermont. Former blacksmith's apprentice. Familiar with Arya – now knows Brienne – at orphanage assisting with looking for Arya/ Sansa - member of BWB. Saw Sandor take Arya. Met Ned, and is working with LS. Knows Thoros. Current Status: with LS, Thoros, BWB

Lady Stoneheart (Catelyn Tully Stark) – AKA - Mother Merciless, The Hangwoman, LS for posts, - House Tully/Stark/BWB - Looking for Sansa and Arya. Knows Gendry. Reaction unknown. Most likely knows he was with Arya.Thinks Sandor took Arya. Working with BWB and familiar with Brienne and Jaime as Catelyn and now LS (again we know they are headed toward her, so no need to elaborate). Knows Thoros. Current Status: WIth BWB, Gendry, Thoros, etc.

Brynden - AKA Blackfish - House Tully - Uncle and Great Uncle of LS, Arya, & Sansa. Certainly no Jaime fan, a'tall. Whereabouts currently unknown, but last seen escaping from Riverrun. Knows Hound. Current Status: ??? - which translates to: No one has any idea where the hell he is currently.

Jaime -House Lannister - KG - familiar and with Brienne. Knew Catelyn and will possibly soon know LS. Knows Blacksfish. Knows Arya and Sansa and looking for them. Knows Sandor. Knows Thoros. Current Status: with Brienne

Stranger - "Driftwood" - Badass horse of Sandor Clegane - House Clegane - Allegiance to Sandor - No one else can go near him risking personal injury/loss of body parts - ex: ear - hates everyone but Sandor - Knows Sansa and Arya - Knows Jaime -Knows Thoros - Knows Gendry - Knows BWB - Saw Brienne briefly as she walked into his stable (he would say "jail") - hates Sandor's Novice Brother Halloween Costume - wants to keep his "bits" - surely incensed that EB could not come up with a better name than "Driftwood" (makes him sound like a dork) - grateful in a way that his stable stall is not near the others - unable to be gelded - unable to be handled/cared for by anyone but Sandor - Advice: Don't even try! Not looking particularly for Sansa and Arya but will most likely agree to it, if his owner will get a move on already and get him the hell off the QI. Actually, the horse will probably agree to anything at this point for freedom. Current Status: Eye-rolling and attempting to kick the damn stable door down at the QI, or he would say "jail."

Nymeria - AKA BIG NYMS -House Stark - direwolf - one of original 6 in litter - 4 left - only female left of litter - Arya's direwolf - Connection/shared extension of/with Arya - hates the friggin Lannisters, Freys, etc. for many reasons - female alpha - roaming Riverlands - Hates everyone - Knows/hates Jaime - Knew Catelyn - pulled Catelyn as LS out of water/aware of LS to some degree - might have seen Arya/been aware of a presence -More concerned with Arya than Sansa most likely, but…still went in to retrieve LS/Arys's mother - might know Gendry/BWB/Thoros anyone Arya was around ( few reasons it could be or could not be) - rules pack of other male and female wolves -HDWIC - Current Status: Pissed off! Meanwhile in the Riverlands...

Thoros - of Myr, priest of R'hllor, BWB, bromance with Beric, with LS/not happy with how she runs things, Knows Sandor. Knows Stranger. Knows Jaime. Looking for Arya and Sansa. Drinking buddies with King Robert. Known for sword on fire circus trick. Knows Brienne. Knows Gendry….???? we will get back to this. Current Status: With LS, Gendry, BWB

The Late Lord Walder Frey - nonagenarian – the cryptkeeper – extremely fertile – loves the ladies –widower many times over - will acknowledge bastards and is married more times than I can count –Lord of the Crossing – House Frey – rules the Twins – hates slights – can’t marry off multiple children and bastards and now grandchildren and so on – was pledged to Riverrun – called the Late Lord Frey by Hoster Tully – will hesitate to act unless he sees an advantage for himself/his House –he will take care of his progeny - host of the Red Wedding – knew Cat, hopefully will hear of/know LS – knows Jaime – May have heard of the Hound - despises Edmure and Blackfish - comes from a long line of weak chins and weasely features -sided with Lannisters and Boltons and others over Starks and Tullys -broke guest right -his house is now targeted by Lady Stoneheart and BWB. Even Dunc thinks he started out life a real pain in the ass - He has a search for the outlaws responsible for the hangings of kin - The North and many others hate him due to treachery, murders and hostages, and his disavowing guest right. Current Status: At the Twins – most likely hearing that House Frey decreased in number a bit more every few days. Responsible for death of Lady Stark, King Robb Stark, Grey Wind, many other people too, and still has several imprisoned. And really more problems every other day coming his way.

Secondary Tier Characters:

Harwin- House Stark allegiance - son of Hullen, Master of Horse of Winterfell - grew up and worked at Winterfell - stable boy/guard - Knows all members of House Stark very well, including previous generation, Rickard, Lyarra?, Ned, Brandon, Benjen, and Lyanna. Could id any Stark possibly. Used to lead Arya's pony as a child. Looking for Arya and Sansa. Could recently id Arya. BWB. Knows LS, Thoros, Sandor, Gendry, Jaime, other BWB members. Knows Nymeria. Current Status: BWB, and theories about being sent somewhere else.

Tom of Sevenstreams - AKA - Tom O' Sevens, Tom Sevenstrings - BWB. Knows Thoros, Sandor, Jaime, LS, Arya, Gendry. Singer/Lyricist/Musician. Plays woodharp. Hit single "The Floppy Fish." Familiar with House Tully (Edmure, Lysa, Hoster?) might know or know of Brynden. Current Status: Apparently, still in BWB, posing as musician looking for work, has infiltrated Frey camp at Riverrun, where he encountered Jaime. Can update LS on status of Edmure/other intelligence.

Lem Lemoncloak - Lem short for Lemoncloak - Redundant double name - some speculate an alias with more background he is not revealing for some reason - BWB - known for yellow cloak, bad teeth, broken nose not set and healed properly, large, strong man - Knows Thoros, Gendry, Arya, LS, Sandor, Brienne, Pod, Hyle. Currently: Utlizing Sandor's Hound Helm ( Mistaken identity issue? with BWB at the hanging that was halted.)

Anguy- AKA - The Archer - From Dorne - commoner -excellent at archery - Known to blow money on luxuries and girls - BWB - Knows Thoros, Gendry, Arya, LS, Sandor. Knows and turned down offer from Ned Stark to join the Hand's Guard. Current Status: BWB

Septon Meribald- Septon that travels the Riverlands - from the area originally - illiterate - able to memorize religious doctrine of the Seven - lives on random assistance for food and shelter in exchange for carrying out septon duties. Distributes food and goods to poor. Travels with a donkey and a dog named "Dog." Knows Brienne, EB, Pod, Hyle, did run in to Sandor and Stranger on QI. Brings up the "tales" of Nymeria in circulation, but doesn't know who she is. Knows BWB. Current Status: Unknown, But allowed to go about his business by BWB.

Podrick Payne - "Pod" - House Payne - House is sworn to House Lannister - former squire to Tyrion - now accompanying Brienne - Knows Sandor. Saw EB, Sandor, Stranger? Would he know Sandor's horse? Knows Jaime. Looking for Arya and Sansa Stark. Looking for Tyrion. Knows Sansa enough to possibly id her, which would be asset to Brienne. Knows BWB. Knows LS. Knows Gendry. Knows Thoros. Knows Meribald. Current Status: Held for insurance by LS and BWB - almost hung, but reprieved temporarily.

Hyle Hunt- House Hunt - knight - allegiance to House Tarly - Knows Brienne, Pod, BWB, LS, Thoros, Meribald - rocky acquaintance with Brienne to begin with - Saw EB, Sandor, and Stranger - marriage proposal to Brienne was flatly denied - Did offer to fight Jaime in Brienne's place, offer denied. Seems to be looking for Sansa and Arya Stark, really, doing and going wherever Brienne is/does. Issues: may report back to Randyll Tarly. Obviously, knows Brienne is sole heir to Tarth and female, thus why he attempted to propose marriage. Current Status: Held for insurance by LS and BWB - almost hung, but reprieved temporarily.

The Hot Pie - From Flea Bottom, orphan, baker, does not kick people in the balls to death, contrary to what he said, Familiar with Arya and Gendry, Knows BWB, Knows Thoros, Current Status: In Riverlands at Inn of the Kneeling Man - baking the Westeros version of the cronut - Inn named for Arya Stark ancestor, Torrhen, The King Who Knelt.

Elder Brother – name unknown –House ? - former knight – House Targaryen allegiance during Robert’s Rebellion - supposed healing powers – head guy on Quiet Isle – unknown if he suggested the attempted nut-napping of Stranger – no vow of silence currently – appears through his story that he does have things in common with Sandor – did experience a doomed love - acquires news of events outside QI – we are not sure if he speaks with Sandor since their initial conversation we hear about secondhand when he tells Brienne info – tall, shaved head, not sure if veiny, red nose suggests drinking? – knows Brienne, Pod, Hyle, Septon Meribald – Unknown if he exchanges news with Meribald – knows of Saltpans – possible harboring of Sandor, yet he tells Brienne he is dead and constructed a decoy grave and laid the Hound Helm there before it was taken by Rorge – he knows Sandor travelled with the true Arya and shares this with Brienne – knows of Arya and Sansa – possibly knows or heard of other Webbers such as Jaime and Blackfish – does he know of BWB, the orphanage? Is he harboring other individuals? Current Status: On the Quiet Isle

Tertiary Tier Characters: Coming soon...

Edric Dayne - Ned - House Dayne – Lord/heir of Starfall – Dorne – was squire to Beric Dondarrion/ his almost uncle in-law. Does not possess Dawn…yet? Only living Dayne relative known is Aunt Allyria of the very long engagement that was not to be. Former member of BWB that defected with some members after Beric died and LS took over. Milk-brothers with Jon Snow, nursed by Wylla. Knows Sandor and Stranger, Jaime, LS, and the entire BWB. Oh….Gendry certainly knows who he is. He knows Arya. Appears to have knowledge of Starks. Knows Sansa. Current Status: Whereabouts Unknown – no known objectives that are clear at the moment.

Edmure Tully – House Tully heir – Riverrun – mocked by Tom O’s Sevens in song, “the floppy fish” -Knows Marq Piper – Fought and led men against battles with Lannisters and Gregor’s Riverlands raids – Tytos Blackwood rescues him – Known for his kind heart and sheltering and concern for the small folk at Riverrun even at an expense – Both Robb and Blackfish are upset with him for disrupting plans they had – In Robb’s place he marries a Frey girl, Roslin - At his bedding, the Red Wedding occurs and he later hears of the deaths - Walder Frey, his father-in-law takes him prisoner, and Riverrun is later besieiged – Blackfish does not budge as Edmure is threatened with hanging at a constructed gallows - The siege is lifted when Jaime arrives and amongst further negotiations - Edmure is given a choice: surrender Riverrun and his lordship and he will be moved to Casterly Rock where his wife will meet him upon giving birth - A tidy keep will be granted when their child comes of age - Any Riverrun defenders would lose their arms but would not be taken prisoner. Or, the castle and defenders would be attacked and both destroyed, with his baby reaching him “by catapult.” Edmure is allowed to bathe and to the tune “The Rains of Castamere.” Edmure delays the surrender to allow Blackfish to bounce. He is related to Catelyn/LS and Blackfish. Does not know what happened to his sister as LS. Knows the Hound. Knows BWB in general. Knows Tom only as a singer he dislikes. Knows the Stark children but not by sight. Oh, he knows Jaime all right. Current Status: Held by the Lannisters as a prisoner heading for the Westerlands and Casterly Rock.

Places in the Riverlands: Coming Soon...

The Inn at the Crossroads -

Peach/Stoney Sept -

The Twins - The Crossing – House Frey – 2 identical castles linked by a bridge and consisting of the Water Tower – at the Trident’s Green Fork – Fees are charged to pass – at a high price – source of Frey wealth – near route that goes from Riverlands north to Winterfell – it is heavily fortified. Site of Catelyn Stark’s meeting with Lord Frey in negotiations for Robb. Roose Bolton was married and his host stopped there. Also, it was the site of the Red Wedding massacre. Current Status: Lord Frey and many of his relatives, are lying in wait as word of Frey deaths emerge sporadically, and other news that affects the House would reach Lord Walder. Surely, the Late Lord Frey Death Watch is on amongst his relatives. Lady Roslin Frey Tully awaits the birth of her baby as well.

Riverrun – House Tully – allegiance to House Stark - Red Fork/Tumblestones – three-sided castle – stand-out feature is flooding a moat that can encircle the entire castle – excellent for sieges – Littlefinger was fostered here – site of double wedding of Ned Stark/Catelyn Tully and Jon Arryn/Lysa Stark – Robb Stark was born here – Riverrun has had its share of sieges – and eventually the Tullys are stripped of their ancestral home when Riverrun is given to Emmon Frey of the infamous “piece of paper.” It is surrenedered by Edmure but not before the Blackfish swims off. Current Status: in the possession of Emmon Frey and Genna Lannister Frey.

More to come...

Objects and Miscellaneous Coming soon...

Dog - a massive, shaggy dog named Dog – hangs out with Septon Meribald and protects him – has tussled with wolves (Big Nyms lost a few minions, I suppose) – Meribald believes he is a dog that hasn’t given his name yet, which also reflects the Hound keeping his identity quiet with help from EB – He is friendly unless you mess with him/Meribald – Meribald treats him well and keeps him fed – He will bark back if spoken too seemingly in answer – he sniffs the Gravedigger and his ear is scratched – at the Inn he sniffs out the blood from the Hound/Arya pub brawl on the floor that has seeped in the wood – The brothers have given bones to Dog before, telling us it is not his first visit with Meribald there. Current Status: unknown but assumed alive and possibly left with Meribald – Brienne does hear him barking during her fight with Rorge and Biter at the Inn.

The Bull Helm – created by Gendry at Tobho Mott’s Shop, King’s Landing – helm is representative of a bull with horns – symbolic of his size, strength, stubborness – his identity as forged by himself individually – he is sometimes called “The Bull” - representative of sticking it to boys he worked with at Mott’s - Ned Stark offered to buy it but he was told it was not for sale – indicative of him knowing who he is and he cannot be bought – a source of pride and nostalgia for most likely his first major project he completed as an apprentice smith, and perhaps the nicest and the most prized possession he owned –was used as armor for defense on the road - Current Status: It was taken by Dunsen, who is on Arya’s list, as well as Polliver, who did not have it at the pub brawl with Arya and Sandor. After that the whereabouts are unknown. Not sure if possible, or if it is symbolic of falling away and forging a new identity, but we are curious if it is seen again.

The Hound Helm -belongs to Sandor Clegane - reflective of House Clegane sigil, history, nickname/the Hound persona, and all that entails separate from Sandor - symbolic of a both fierce and loyal nature, the ability to sniff and sense bullshit/lies - now a symbol of falsely attributed atrocities committed not by Sandor - the Helm was laid on Sandor’s grave according to EB, and it was later stolen by Rorge - When he is killed by Brienne it is taken by Lem of the BWB. Current Status: with Lem, who was warned not to utilize it with misgivings by Thoros of Myr.

Needle -

Oathkeeper - Valyrian steel – one of two swords re-forged by Tobho Mott (Gendry’s former master smith/employer) from the Northern Stark longsword formerly known as Ice. A longsword and sister to Widow’s Wail which is smaller. It has a golden pommel carved into a Lannister lion’s head with two ruby chips for eyes. The blade itself is rippled black/red. The gold scabbard has a series of lion’s heads and bedazzler rubies. (Any former Stark or Northerner would be turning in their grave; they do simple. Sorry, it still pisses me off.) Lord Tywin gives it as a gift to Jaime originally but he asks Brienne to use it and doles out the name. In essence, the sword of Ned Stark is now in service to find his two daughters. It was the sword used to kill Lord Stark by Ilyn Payne. Requests by Robb and Catelyn to have it returned were denied previously. It is also incriminating evidence that Brienne has forgotten her oath to Lady Stark and is used by the BWB and LS as proof of collaborating with the Lannisters. Current Status: with Brienne of Tarth in the Riverlands, if it is on her?

More to come...

The common link - The Webbers are looking for:

Arya Stark -

Sansa Stark -

The Vale Connection: Coming soon...

Mad Mouse -

Myranda Royce -

Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish -

[LongRider]

Yay!

:commie:

[Booknerd2]

Yay!

:commie:

Ok, back on track….

Update:

I am going to post a recap of all Post Questions to date next, and then on to #22 Anguy.

The goal is also to fix some more of the OP with additions.

[Booknerd2]

Post questions master list – spread over V.1 – V. 4

Post Questions Previously Covered: But hey, rehash at any time!

From V.1 – V.4

Post Question #1: Do you think Thoros knows already who Gendry is? Will a Gendry identity reveal, in general, cause problems in an already divided BWB? Is his safety at risk? LS?

Post Question #2: Why do we love Stranger and why he is like an Ancient Greek theatre aside?

Post Question #3: Why we love Nymeria (Big Nyms), Nymeria going forward, and how she is one of the “Benchwarmers.”

Post Question: #4: The Wolf Pack dynamic: or how to name-drop Hot Pie and get him back into the story.

Post Question #5: Who the hell is Jaqen H’gar? What is it with that guy?

Post Question #6: Sandor Goes Trick-or-Treating: What is in store for him, especially in the Riverlands? When a Sandor Eulogy Gets Cancelled

Post Question #7

mercy chapter

Post Question #8: Jaime Lannister is going to have a bad day…a really friggin' bad day.

Post Question:#9: Where in the World is Brynden Sandiego?

Post Question #10: Uncat Rises: A Season of Bloom and Doom

Post Question #11: The Hound and The Bull at the Helm: What do they mean to them, to their story, the series, and you.

Post Question #12: Dog the Dog – by LeCygne

Post Question #13: The Orphanage: The Arya Stark Checkpoints, The Tarth Traveller, and One Pissed Off Bull

Post Question #14: The Inn: Come and Knock at my Door, We’ve Been Waiting for You

Post Question #15: The Dayne Defector and Ours has a Fury

Post Question #16: Moving On Up: Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish.

Post Question #17: The Importance of Being Harwin

Post Question #18: Sansa – by LeCygne

Post Question #19: Lord Walder Frey: Freyed Around the Edges

Post Question #20: Edmure Tully: Caught with Your Pants Down

Post Question #21: Elder Brother – by LongRider

Post Question #22: Anguy: On Being Given the Shaft

[Booknerd2]

Post Question# 22 - Anguy: On Being Given the Shaft

Somehow….Anguy slipped off the pages. Ok, so he gave us the shaft.

He was there one day…and then he wasn’t anymore. Lost him…

So, where the hell is he?

But a little background first.

Well, he is certainly stand out. I’ve seen some fan art and he sort of looks like Howdy Doody, or Chucky the killer doll, er, that has issues. But we are not concerned with trying to picture how he looks; more concerned with where the hell he is and what he’s doing…

We know he is from Dorne, and that he is an outstanding archer. Even Ned knew and offered him a job, which he declined.

And if the BWB does harken to Robin Hood a bit, well, you need some archers…

And he did blow all his winnings from the tourney. So that could tell us a little bit about his personality, but maybe a combo of a few things:

He is young, first time it happened and he has no concept of saving money, it doesn’t concern him, or on the flip side, he is so talented he thinks there is more where that came from, might as well live it up. Some would say…you know, the old, well….he is Dornish….like that could mean, as Sers Ad-Rock, MCA, and Mike D from the Brotherhood of Beastie Boys once said, that he fights for his right to party or whatever….who knows?

For these other MIA people like Anguy right now, my guide/measuring stick is Tom. He is the most blatant….well for now. Bad writing would have been having all these BWB in places where they stick out and do not belong, and then it would be more in your face and I would have caught on right away or sooner about what Tom is doing. But that is not the case; he is a brilliant writer, and some of the stuff he leaves and how these nuggets appear and how cleverly crafted they are, well, that is how one spends hours on the forum. Too many to count…

You put one in (Tom) and make the silent statement that calls for drawing a conclusion. The track is laid out. It could turn out later that Tom is the stand out that turns up at Riverrun (as happened) Harwin is maybe the hooded man, Edric Dayne is doing something and it is not just over a disagreement or looking to spread his wings or whatever, and even Wizz’s bringing up Greenbeard, and possibly others and other possibilities for them. And those missing Northerners that are buoying and bobbing about unclearly at the moment, well, there is also whatever’s going on with them too. And well…there are also other BWB unaccounted for at present….or have been for awhile. Because now anyone that hasn’t been mentioned in awhile or have failed to appear…are up for possible scrutiny, and I think the signal was Tom. Ok, here is one, now where is everyone else? Tom seems like the tip off. Start the BWB Easter egg hunt, people!

I should take out my notepad and pencil, ok, maybe parchment and quill and go around to the BWB and start asking Philo Vance style, “ Ok, where were you on the night of…blah, blah, blah. Or even….”have you seen this man?”

Nah, I’m too silly. Let us keep William Powell and make that Nick Charles. Funnier and he has to have a cocktail or two or ten… before he even starts investigating. Lol! Philo was way more serious.

Tom seems to be that ol’ sleight of hand again. Too busy thinking oh, this is awkward…Tom and Edmure had beef over the Floppy Fish song. I got distracted. It took awhile. Then I was like….Hey, what the hell are you doing there? And the forum brought up other things and helped to work it out and stick in my mind.

Also, it was around the same time that stuff was sinking in and many cans of worms were opened. Really, the theme of: Okay…but what are you also really doing? Like what is going on with the orphanage, Thoros still going through the BWB motions but disgruntled, what EB hopes to accomplish, or even Meribald, or Edric Dayne splitting town…

And the same could be said for other characters at other places also.

So we are trying to tackle BWB before we have a general BWB post. Upcoming also is Beric, Tom, Thoros, Gendry, and we previously covered Lady Stoneheart, Edric Dayne, Harwin, and scratched the surface of BWB in regard to other more major characters we covered, and how they encountered/overlapped. Anguy is a smaller write-up because there is not much to go on, but the others, of course, with more detail will be longer.

So, any thoughts on Anguy or BWB? I think my main thrust here is he stands out a bit because we don’t know where he is, like Harwin, and possibly others. They low-key non-mentions have drawn attention by their very nature: omission. And Tom really made us question them all.

Now some people think Anguy is still around, some think he met up with Edric Dayne, and others are thinking he may have a task such as Tom….thoughts?

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Hey bookie. Anguy is a tough one to locate. Without much evidence to go on, I must admit I find him accompanying Edric back to Dorne as a good possibility. While it makes sense that Edric would leave after Beric's death, there was no reason to think that they left on bad terms. Indeed it could be quite the opposite, they may still harbour BWB plans, and Anguy would be the perfect choice to join their party if they were heading for Dorne.

Also, on another note. There is a quote of Anguy's that insinuates he has knowledge of something with Lem that could be important. This is the scene at The Inn of the Kneeling Man with Arya, Hot Pie etc..

“…the river water tastes of war, with all the dead men drifting downstream. If I served you a cup of soup full of dead flies, would you drink it?”

“Arry would,” said Hot Pie. “I mean, Squab.”

“So would Lem,” offered Anguy with a sly smile. [ ASOS, chapter 13 ]

There is speculation that Anguy is referring to an event in Lem's past when he maybe floated upriver, similar to what happened to the EB. But this is slightly off topic.

My reason for highlighting that, was it grabbed my attention. The ''sly smile'' part gives the impression he may have some knowledge that no one else but the players in the BWB have. Kind of making a private joke. Anyway it stuck out to me, could be nothing, but thought it worth a mention. :dunno:

[Booknerd2]

Hey bookie. Anguy is a tough one to locate. Without much evidence to go on, I must admit I find him accompanying Edric back to Dorne as a good possibility. While it makes sense that Edric would leave after Beric's death, there was no reason to think that they left on bad terms. Indeed it could be quite the opposite, they may still harbour BWB plans, and Anguy would be the perfect choice to join their party if they were heading for Dorne.

Also, on another note. There is a quote of Anguy's that insinuates he has knowledge of something with Lem that could be important. This is the scene at The Inn of the Kneeling Man with Arya, Hot Pie etc..

There is speculation that Anguy is referring to an event in Lem's past when he maybe floated up the river, similar to what happened to the EB. But this is slightly off topic.

My reason for highlighting that, was it grabbed my attention. The ''sly smile'' part gives the impression he may have some knowledge that no one else but the players in the BWB have. Kind of making a private joke. Anyway it stuck out to me, could be nothing, but thought it worth a mention. :dunno:

I never picked up on that quote. There are a bunch of things with BWB and quotes that have been checked out by others or need to.

To me, they always seemed like a gaggle of people with pasts, now everyone has pasts, but I mean PASTS….

And again, Tom I think is the indicator that they go off and multitask and have a bunch of things in the works or or planning on it. But many of us think that anyway. Or it just needs to be looked at or kept in mind.

Lem is going to get a PQ also. And I have to direct and link to the Richard Lonmouth theory when the time comes because it looks good, and offers much to think about.

Everyone most likely goes by their given name, and they seem legit. Tom, Thoros, Anguy, etc. and then there is this Lem Lemoncloak thing. Which, Jesus, "Lem" is just short anyway for "Lemoncloak" so he is going with first and last with the same word, only one part is shortened. I think if it was like, let's say, Book Booknerd, it would sort of stick out. Something is going on with him. There are a bunch of things to note with him.

And we are made to take notice of Anguy and how skilled he is way back with Ned. He is also seemingly not as loud and boisterous or as free with words as some of the others that stick out. Well, always keep an eye on the quiet ones...

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1.] I never picked up on that quote. There are a bunch of things with BWB and quotes that have been checked out by others or need to.

To me, they always seemed like a gaggle of people with pasts, now everyone has pasts, but I mean PASTS….

2.] Lem is going to get a PQ also. And I have to direct and link to the Richard Lonmouth theory when the time comes because it looks good, and offers much to think about.

3.] And we are made to take notice of Anguy and how skilled he is way back with Ned. He is also seemingly not as loud and boisterous or as free with words as some of the others that stick out. Well, always keep an eye on the quiet ones...

1.] Definitely. There have been quite a few quotes/new info [ for us ] we've dug up recently. And agreed, they all seem to have a story, and their pasts are interesting.

2.] Excellent, I really like the Richard Lonmouth theory. Certainly much to think about, if correct it puts Lem in the same company as Howland Reed as someone who could shed light on much and more ! ;)

3.] That is a good point, and this often leads to a ''pay off'' of sorts later in the story. I would not be at all surprised if, when we see Anguy again, it's his archery that is his way back into the narrative. If not, at the very least it could be an asset that may come into play somehow later in the story.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Also, on the topic of parallels to Robin Hood and his Merry men. There are definitely some there, and as this is the Anguy PQ, there is the archery tournament.

- Robin Hood won the Silver Arrow contest at Butt-dyke just outside Nottingham.

- Anguy won the Tourney of the Hand's Archery contest before becoming a member of BWB or the RL's 'Merry men'

Pretty obvious one, but again thought it worth noting. :P

[Wizz-The-Smith]

And he did blow all his winnings from the tourney. So that could tell us a little bit about his personality, but maybe a combo of a few things:

He is young, first time it happened and he has no concept of saving money, it doesn’t concern him, or on the flip side, he is so talented he thinks there is more where that came from, might as well live it up. Some would say…you know, the old, well….he is Dornish….like that could mean, as Sers Ad-Rock, MCA, and Mike D from the Brotherhood of Beastie Boys once said, that he fights for his right to party or whatever….who knows?

Forgot to mention the Beastie Boys appreciation ! Good work ! I think you've referenced Guns + Roses before as well. Some good music flying about this thread, leading me to dig out some old albums ! The Clash was a nice Xmas revisiting also. :thumbsup:

[Booknerd2]

Forgot to mention the Beastie Boys appreciation ! Good work ! I think you've referenced Guns + Roses before as well. Some good music flying about this thread, leading me to dig out some old albums ! The Clash was a nice Xmas revisiting also. :thumbsup:

Oh, yeah, Out ta Get Me is totally on the Soundtrack of Stranger's life. LOL! I think that got cracked on in either the Sandor or Stranger PQ.

I was going to say something about Tom and Anguy but I'll post tomorrow. Brain dead and I can't word it the way I want.

[Ramsays Fleyed Lips]

Been following these threads as they are entertaining and you regular contributors are just funny, so thanks for that. There was a thread earlier in the week that really got me to thinking about Uncle Blackfish and what he's up to. Not that easy for me to see him meeting up with the BWB or heading north as I think he's off to the Vale and possibly not to be surprised. The BWB was all tied up for me until I began following these threads. It is clear now that they are major players in all the Riverlands intrigue. Still all the breaking off and separating to the winds...LS couldn't have come up with that, face it she just isn't that clever. Who's master planning all this? Sure, LS is no doubt behind all the Frey calming, but installing Tom at Riverun? No way. Is it possible Thoros is in charge behind the scenes masterminding the many things we suspect they're up to? I think they are enough stand alone, though certainly Nym and her pack should play into this story line. Is it possible Thoros was sympathetic to Brienne and may have aided her in the impossible quest set before her?

[LongRider]

Welcome Ramsays Fleyed Lips!

RFL said: The BWB was all tied up for me until I began following these threads. It is clear now that they are major players in all the Riverlands intrigue. Still all the breaking off and separating to the winds...LS couldn't have come up with that, face it she just isn't that clever. Who's master planning all this? Sure, LS is no doubt behind all the Frey calming, but installing Tom at Riverun? No way. Is it possible Thoros is in charge behind the scenes masterminding the many things we suspect they're up to?

Great questions! The BWB is more tangled than the Meerensee Knot.

Who sent Tom to RR? Also, is the RW 2 happens there as some have speculated, an archer could come in handy. Also, I was reading a couple of Jaime and Bri's Dance chapters last night and when Jaime sent Edmure and the Westerlings away he had extra archers assigned to watch them. I read this after reading the OP so the addition of so many archers got my notice. Jaime asks for the archers because he told the party that he felt the BF would try to free Edmure if he could.

I have another question, is it in the text that Edric Dayne did leave for Dorne or is that an assumption on our part? I can't remember, the wiki sez:

Following Beric Dondarrion's final death, Edric and a part of Beric's band go their separate way from those who chose to follow the resurrected, vengeful Lady Stoneheart. He has not appeared in the series since, his current whereabouts unclear.

So it's not confirmed he went to Dorne nor who is with him. I just read the epilogue from SOS and the outlaws mentioned by name were Tom O'Sevens, Lem, Notch (?) and a one-eyed man. They mention Thoros but he is not with them. There is no mention of Anguy by name or mention of a bowman.

Edit; in the Epilogue, Merritt is asked if he saw Sandor Clegane with a skinny girl about ten at the RW. They also say that they talked to the ferryman who took Sandor and Arya across the Trident and the farmer he robbed of the meat wagon. So the BWB do get around and many smallfolk tell them many interesting things.

[LongRider]

I found a tasty little tidbit in AFFC, when Jaime goes to Harrenhal he's talking to Shitmouth and SM tells him that Ser Gregor had named Polliver as castellan but that Polliver, Tickler and their squire was killed by the Hound.

"It happened at the crossroads inn, my lord. The inkeep swore the man had one side of his face burned. His whores told the same tale. Sandor had some boy with him, a ragged peasant lad. They hacked Polly and the Tickler to bloody bits and rode off down the Trident, we are told."

High five everyone!

We discussed how the word of what happened at the inn must of been gossiped about by the innkeep and the whores who were there at the time. This confirms what we know but sometimes miss; GRRM does use the gossip of the background characters to pass some of the story along.

[Booknerd2]

1.] Definitely. There have been quite a few quotes/new info [ for us ] we've dug up recently. And agreed, they all seem to have a story, and their pasts are interesting.

2.] Excellent, I really like the Richard Lonmouth theory. Certainly much to think about, if correct it puts Lem in the same company as Howland Reed as someone who could shed light on much and more ! ;)

3.] That is a good point, and this often leads to a ''pay off'' of sorts later in the story. I would not be at all surprised if, when we see Anguy again, it's his archery that is his way back into the narrative. If not, at the very least it could be an asset that may come into play somehow later in the story.

#3. And all of this is hard to ponder, because it is highly speculative.

I like that wording. The "pay off" later. That sticks out for me, us being told how effective he is early on and by someone we trust, Ned. Not sure that is necessary if he were planned to be someone that takes off and is never heard from again, or for a "background player" which I doubt he will become. Yeah, I don't see him as a scenery tool, a BWB "extra."

I have nothing to go on evidence-wise, but for some reason, all I possess is a "feel" he did not go to Dorne. We will have to wait and see.

I think he will pop again like some of the rest of the BWB "Whack-a-mole's" and like Tom, it will be where he is most effective. Like for instance, Tom is perfect for the work he is doing at Riverrun. A musician, unassuming, low key, and I am not sure that when we saw him, it was about him infiltrating and going about something. It is that, but I am sure he did some work already that we didn't see; off page. Like he had been gathering information, and most likely talked to Edmure as well. The thing is: How does Tom get messages out to BWB, or is he planning on deserting his post soon? Would that draw attention? If he did, he can't be utilized again, because it would maybe be possible to put two and two together. But the whole I-am-a-musician-looking-for-steady-work ruse was good. Ah, the trials of double-agenting….Snape could give him a few pointers. lol!

It is the same thing we wonder about Harwin and Anguy. People think Harwin might be utilized already, and for anyone, it would be where they are best used. And the plus for BWB is that they come from different places and backgrounds. We have a Riverlands guy, a Northerner, a Dornishmen, and the rest too, maybe that we don't know too much about, and they have different skills and knowledge too.

So now I am still pondering possible ideas about what Anguy could do. And I see that Longie just posted, and I like the tree she is barking up. I will comment there regarding Anguy.

[Booknerd2]

Been following these threads as they are entertaining and you regular contributors are just funny, so thanks for that. There was a thread earlier in the week that really got me to thinking about Uncle Blackfish and what he's up to. Not that easy for me to see him meeting up with the BWB or heading north as I think he's off to the Vale and possibly not to be surprised. The BWB was all tied up for me until I began following these threads. It is clear now that they are major players in all the Riverlands intrigue. Still all the breaking off and separating to the winds...LS couldn't have come up with that, face it she just isn't that clever. Who's master planning all this? Sure, LS is no doubt behind all the Frey calming, but installing Tom at Riverun? No way. Is it possible Thoros is in charge behind the scenes masterminding the many things we suspect they're up to? I think they are enough stand alone, though certainly Nym and her pack should play into this story line. Is it possible Thoros was sympathetic to Brienne and may have aided her in the impossible quest set before her?

Thanks so much!

Yeah, we are serious but a silly bunch too. lol!

Oh, I believe BF pops up somewhere opportune and it will click down the road. For me, I think the best and most likely place is with BWB. They are in the thick of any possible Riverrun (we see with Tom) and possible Twins drama. And I just have a feel that somebody of family is going to come across LS literally and since the kids are spread out, it might just be BF. That he will see what happened to his niece firsthand. Also, that if this BWB thing doesn't implode with Thoros and his "Office Space-like" complaints about how the vision has been misdirected, BF might be the shot in the arm of adrenaline and direction they need.

But that may not be the case either. I am not ruling out that it could not be all this way either.

I love your post, I have to say that I never put that in perspective. Ruminating on the Riverlands Web is hard. For every question one asks, 100 more questions and possibilities to look at pop up.

Thoros seems to "blame" LS, but the big issue is we don't know yet, I think on purpose, the breadth and depth of her, uh, functionality. Are they really ALL her plans? Or who is the Napoleon-like strategist coming up with all these ideas? Or is it a collaborative effort?

I even detected Thoros being annoyed with Lem too.

I even believe that Gendry is making that sword to actually "use it" so I wonder if we are even tipped off that something is about to change and he is leaving the orphanage to go fight, or something. We look at everything, just in case, you know.

We have debated too how if Blackrish's arrival would change the dynamic? I think for the better? And he would truly act on the best for his niece Catelyn, not so much LS, and for Edmure and his baby too. Ok, his wife too, but I think his big 3 are his blood relatives.

But the big thing is how can you do it all? How can BWB concentrate on RR and the Twins at once? What is the plan? Which one first? Or it that not the case either?

Even with BF, some make the case he or the BWB has an idea or will that the Alayne Stone girl needs to be looked into, and of course, BF's niece has a son, Sweetrobin, Lord of the Vale, and that needs to be something he would look into also. Yet, BWB also has not given up on Arya with the orphanage system they have going.

BF and BWB have too many priorities and beefs on many fronts, so we try to look at how many prongs are on their attack plans?

I agree with you that this is wider. When the Tom thing sunk in for me, it was apparent that this thing branches out and stretches. And when other things of note are taken into account it stretches more with possibilities. This is why we take a person or subject at a time and go nuts with it. Yeah, even though Anguy is a smaller write up then say a bigger character like Jaime, Brienne, Sandor, etc, those smaller puzzle pieces have to be looked at too.

The funny thing is that that is why no small detail gets brushed under the carpet here. For me doing a tiny write up on Anguy, well, it sure sparked a lot of ideas the past two days, look at all the posts.

Again, I appreciate that you made me ponder that. That is not something we discussed and we did do a write-up on LS. I think we were more concerned about her feelings/memories of her old life and the extent to how much she has leftover, like how much Catelyn is there still within.

I do not think we questioned how up to plotting, strategizing, and playing the tactician she is, and I have to thank you for that. It is very important in the scheme of things.

My big questions with this stem from Thoros.

1. I can't conclude that he doesn't surmise who Gendry is. He was very good friends with a younger and older Robert.

2. I can't understand why his fires are currently "out of order?" Why? Or is he just saying that for some reason?

3. If you believe LS is not the mastermind, which I think definitely is a great idea to look at, how come Thoros seems to put the full blame of misdirection of the BWB on her?

4. And a biggie. For Thoros personally, I can't understand for the life of me, why Thoros would tell Brienne he is not happy and has had it. She is an outsider, and isn't that treachery if LS or some of the rest get wind of that? All I know is that the author wrote that dialogue into his mouth for us. He want us to know Thoros is pissed and I don't know why yet. Also, it is something to keep in mind that Thoros seems to bear Brienne no ill will, neither does Gendry anymore, and maybe that will bode well because right about now her and Jaime should be encountering LS and them again. Maybe it will help? So believe me, the stuff that crossed your mind with Thoros and Brienne, well, it sticks out for me too, and I know I have bitched about it on earlier threads.

Well, this is long enough. Your post was very thought-provoking and I appreciate it.

Now some stuff I can't get into because I need to sit and chew on it a bit. But I think we all need to come back to that. Is LS pulling all the strings on her own or not?

[LongRider]

booknerd2 said:

4. And a biggie. For Thoros personally, I can't understand for the life of me, why Thoros would tell Brienne he is not happy and has had it. She is an outsider, and isn't that treachery if LS or some of the rest get wind of that? All I know is that the author wrote that dialogue into his mouth for us. He want us to know Thoros is pissed and I don't know why yet. Also, it is something to keep in mind that Thoros seems to bear Brienne no ill will, neither does Gendry anymore, and maybe that will bode well because right about now her and Jaime should be encountering LS and them again. Maybe it will help? So believe me, the stuff that crossed your mind with Thoros and Brienne, well, it sticks out for me too, and I know I have bitched about it on earlier threads.

This is reinforced by; Thoros fed her, Gendry saved her life and Jeyne Heddle splinted her arm 'as good as any maester'. So, does Bri have a few possible allies in the BWB?

[Booknerd2]

Welcome Ramsays Fleyed Lips!

Great questions! The BWB is more tangled than the Meerensee Knot.

Who sent Tom to RR? Also, is the RW 2 happens there as some have speculated, an archer could come in handy. Also, I was reading a couple of Jaime and Bri's Dance chapters last night and when Jaime sent Edmure and the Westerlings away he had extra archers assigned to watch them. I read this after reading the OP so the addition of so many archers got my notice. Jaime asks for the archers because he told the party that he felt the BF would try to free Edmure if he could.

I have another question, is it in the text that Edric Dayne did leave for Dorne or is that an assumption on our part? I can't remember, the wiki sez:

So it's not confirmed he went to Dorne nor who is with him. I just read the epilogue from SOS and the outlaws mentioned by name were Tom O'Sevens, Lem, Notch (?) and a one-eyed man. They mention Thoros but he is not with them. There is no mention of Anguy by name or mention of a bowman.

Edit; in the Epilogue, Merritt is asked if he saw Sandor Clegane with a skinny girl about ten at the RW. They also say that they talked to the ferryman who took Sandor and Arya across the Trident and the farmer he robbed of the meat wagon. So the BWB do get around and many smallfolk tell them many interesting things.

Yeah, Ramsay's Flayed Lips brought up some great points of note.

But again, what bothers me is that Thoros seems to blame LS, and if it wasn't the case, and others were planning, why wouldn't he know better?

(Scratching head…)

I think we saw early on and you had pointed out too the gossip of those that aid them in villages and the like, and it does move the story along and feeds the reader info.

I can entertain that Tom possibly came up with the idea. And Edmure would be out of the ruse initially too, because he could confirm that he is a legit musician, and one that had early on pissed him off regarding a song about his sex life.

I also think we see the idea of the broad network early on and in many cases. From nobles to small folk, essentially, they have many allies. From a highborn like Lady Smallwood down to peasants and even the whores. There is a variety of people and places, and we are shown that.

I have to refresh myself, but I thought of the conversations with Lady Smallwood, Tom, and BWB. Well, we ,er, learn that they have a bit of a past, and also she kind of confirms that he is smart, savy, and gets around, and not just in, er, that way. Tom in a networker, seems to be sharp and slick, and is probably a big asset to the BWB. Meaning, he seems like he knows how to play the game with people and is shrewd, but unassuming. And that is what makes him effective.

I love what you brought up about the archers. Funny how specifically and in with even the whole Tom being there from the BWB at RR, and he is already posing as the eager musician looking for a break and work there, I mean, come on, archers seems to harken to Anguy.

And it is interesting that it is possibly that among that group of archers, the best there is, THE ARCHER, might be there, to wreak more havoc at the right time and support the work also that Tom is doing. Meaning that Tom is not the only one out there and making things happen.

One solid archer, can easily blend in amongst a group of archers, so it is sneaky and a great possibility to look at. And it would be a case of not pulling him out of thin air, because that dialogue was already set up about archers being utilized.

I like it and I need to dwell on it more, but I think it is open to look at.

I think it is apparent that he is an excellent long distantance and mighty effective bulls-eyes/sniper shooter who rarely misses, and that came up when I think even Arya is told how amazing his skills are. So, the basis and foundation seems to be there already and we were warned. She got told, and her father witnessed it too.

Now that Epilogue is interesting, I have to look at that.

Oh, yeah, and it was never confirmed that Anguy went to Dorne, nor Edric also, I think those are just theories people have. I have seen people believe he might have done that. Nobody to my knowledge knows where he is, and that is why I am wondering if he is pulling a Tom and out there on a specific task.

Like Tom, if he is, he has to be where he would be most effective, and I think your reference to the Archers is great and something to think about.

I also like the irony that the BWB would be right under Jaime's nose. Tom in RR, and he is discussing Archers, not knowing that Anguy of BWB is one among them.

[Booknerd2]

This is reinforced by; Thoros fed her, Gendry saved her life and Jeyne Heddle splinted her arm 'as good as any maester'. So, does Bri have a few possible allies in the BWB?

I think so, and I hope so.

But I also can't see anyone going after LS. So that is the rub.

I think we know that the bad guys are going to get theirs, and that somehow, whatever is going to go down at RR and/or Twins, it will not be in the favor of Freys. So I am still holding out with LS will want to "let go" of her existence down the road, after she accomplishes what she wants, and wants to be "released."

She is still Catelyn, I think, or was and everybody knows it within BWB, and already had her dance with being brutally murdered, I still think it is kind of meh, if someone or a group that was her allies does her in. So I don't think the BWB has anything to do with her being "offed."

[LongRider]

booknerd2 said: And it is interesting that it is possibly that among that group of archers, the best there is,THE ARCHER, might be there, to wreak more havoc at the right time and support the work also that Tom is doing. Meaning that Tom is not the only one out there and making things happen.

One solid archer, can easily blend in amongst a group of archers, so it is sneaky and a great possibility to look at. And it would be a case of not pulling him out of thin air, because that dialogue was already set up about archers being utilized.

I like it and I need to dwell on it more, but I think it is open to look at.

Now I've thought about Anguy being with the archers, but that would mean he would have to have infiltrated at the siege of RR. Doesn't mean he couldn't have done it, but that would be a bit of a stretch. I'll look at the chapter where Jaime comes to RR and tells who is there. I've focused on the Freys and his cousin, but of course the other at the siege are described.

Also, BF may come back to RR when Ser Kevan Lannister, Jaime's cousin, marries 'his stoat', er, one of Frey's daughters at RR. There are ideas that when the Lannisters and Frey get together at RR for the wedding it will be RW2. And if that idea pans out, the BWB and BF have a good chance of making an appearance at this very important event.